Todays teachers strike

Ignoring the pay/pensions aspect of the debate for now..

How many people can really see a class of thirty 16 year olds being taught by a 68 year old? in any subject.. this is where any changes will ultimately fall down.
 
ding76uk said:
Being as you own us I thought you would have known we are on a 2 year pay freeze.
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Yes and about time too, your whining and moaning now because the economic problem is starting to effect you now.

You just seam to have had your head buried in the sand for the last 3 years while the rest of us have been and are continuing to suffer.

The previous government announced a raised in our retirement age, they also raised NI which in part pays for our pensions (this did if course effect you) and labour did intend to raise NI again if elected.

Many many private sector works have either had no pay rise or a reduction in pay since 2008.

Did you just sit there thinking look at those saps getting creamed, did you never think it will be our turn soon, where you really so unaware of what was/is going on in our country.


As for the comment about teachers working till 68, well do you really want construction workers at 68 , or 68 year olds driving HGV wagons up and down out roads. Your more than happy for fishermen you go out to sea and get your food when they are 68, but wow so bad working in a classroom at 68.

Welcome to to the party, come in and join the rest of us.
 
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whiteflyer said:
Yes and about time too, your whining and moaning now because the economic problem is starting to effect you now.

You just seam to have had your head buried in the sand for the last 3 years while the rest of us have been and are continuing to suffer.

The previous government announced a raised in our retirement age, they also raised NI which in part pays for our pensions (this did if course effect you) and labour did intend to raise NI again if elected.

Many many private sector works have either had no pay rise or a reduction in pay since 2008.

Did you just sit there thinking look at those saps getting creamed, did you never think it will be our turn soon, where you really so unaware of what was/is going on in our country.


As for the comment about teachers working till 68, well do you really want construction workers at 68 , or 68 year olds driving HGV wagons up and down out roads. Your more than happy for fishermen you go out to sea and get your food when they are 68, but wow so bad working in a classroom at 68.

Welcome to to the party, come in and join the rest of us.
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Good post, although I am worried about MP's and their counterparts in the House of Lords working until they are 90. :eek:
 
I will admit that I have been lucky as last year we got a 1% pay rise, and this years offer is 1.75% to cover the next 16 months, oh and £10 a year extra on out £130 a year attendance allowance ( we get £32 a quarter, but one day off and it's gone for that quarter)

Then again 1.75% of diddle squat is diddle squat.
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So when is it your turn then comrade :shrug:

You never replied to my post 277 :wave:
 
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Mickwreay said:
So when is it your turn then comrade :shrug:

You never replied to my post 277 :wave:
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As I said I have been lucky, we have had a total pay rise of 4% covering the last 3 years and up to April 2012, and there have been no redundancy's at our plant, but as staff have left due retirement or what ever, nobody has been taken on, so same work being done by less staff.

As stated repeatedly in this thread our pension age has has already been raised, and I'm lucky as because on my current age I only have to work an extra year until 66, but ask a private sector female worker currently aged 50 , she has had another 6 years add on to her retirement age. Now massive cut in the public sector, and what has happened in the private sector, lets me see, Lloyds TSB cut 45000 jobs, Southern Cross 3000,Northern Rock 4500 then there are all the little company's that don't make the major news such as Southport’s largest private sector employer Paymentshield 60 redundancies

Now the armed forces could be classed as a special case and left alone, or you could also argue that we just don't need the same number of forces as we did in the past. Do we still need the same sort of presents in Germany, Cyprus or Canada. (there's an RAF base in Canada)

As for fading in, Hmm! I can see your point, but the current government has speeded up the change in retirement age for all private sector workers. The problem with doing what you suggest is the unions would argue against it becoming a two tier system of them and us, those with a very very good pension and those with just a very good pension.
 
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Mark,

A few points,
The current numbers in the UK forces have been cut beyond belief & they are doing more work now than they have been doing since the 1st & 2nd world wars!

The female pension issue is a gender issue & is fair in my opinion, have there not been concessions made to reduce the number of years NI contributions needed?

Cyprus is a vital link for strategic Ops.
Goose Bay is a Canadian base with a few RAF personnel, vital flying training c/out there. Trust me it’s no party town!
Germany will be shut soon, well for the forces anyway!

Yes the slowing down of the changes will cost more, however it would ease the pain of someone who is retiring from a job that promised a certain age.
Each public sector job is different & as such the demands & pension age should be different IMO.

Prison officers, military, nurses, teachers and many more are not going to be able to take up a suitable position for the last few years before someone reaches retirement age!
 
Mickwreay said:
Each public sector job is different & as such the demands & pension age should be different IMO.
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The same is true in the private sector, so do you also think that a government should produce a list of every job and its acceptable retirement age.

What age an office worker, or HGV driver, how old should a butcher be, it would be an absolute nightmare. What if I did all three jobs in my life time how do you work the pension age out then.
 
whiteflyer said:
The same is true in the private sector, so do you also think that a government should produce a list of every job and its acceptable retirement age.

What age an office worker, or HGV driver, how old should a butcher be, it would be an absolute nightmare. What if I did all three jobs in my life time how do you work the pension age out then.
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Referring back to previous posts,
An aircraft engineer in the RAF earns around £10,000 less than a licensed aircraft engineer in Civvy St Hence the short career & pension, paid for by the non-contributory pension scheme. Subsidised by the lower salary.
Does an admin person expect to fight for a living? No
Does a prison officer expect to fight for a living? Yes
Does a butcher expect to fight for a living? No
Does a Policeman expect to fight for a living? Yes
Does an HGV driver expect to fight for a living? No
Does a serviceman expect to fight for a living? Yes

There will always be exceptions, but a large proportion of the public sector jobs have to contend with the poop side of life & therefore are not suited to people in their late 50s?
So this is why they were offered & accepted a salary & pension to be drawn at an age where it was reasonably expected their service would end!

Mick
 
whiteflyer said:
... Now massive cut in the public sector, and what has happened in the private sector, lets me see, Lloyds TSB cut 45000 jobs, Southern Cross 3000,Northern Rock 4500...
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I hate to be a pain but two of those are in the public sector; ie owned by the Govt.
 
DemiLion said:
I hate to be a pain but two of those are in the public sector; ie owned by the Govt.
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Wrong again

HM Government took a 43.4% stake in Lloyds Banking Group , so in fact it is still a majority private company.
 
ANDYHOP said:
Long Hours school starts @ 9 finishes at 3.00
2 x 20 min breaks + 1 hr dinner
Clean up classroom tables (The caretaker cleans the floors.)
leave school premises at 4
home for 5
relax have tea
mark a few books.
most primary classes have classroom assistants who help the teachers prepare the lessons.
about 4 in-service days a year
wont mention the holidays they have.

Like I said secondary teachers work hard.
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Actually this is utter tripe!

I am a primary teacher and would love to work the kind of day you have so cleverly timetabled.

All teachers have to be in school before 8.30am and are not permitted to
Leave until 3.45, however, most of us get there at 8 and leave at 5.45 when we are kicked out!

Then it's home, with two hours at least of marking and prep to do.

Where are your facts from? I have no teaching assistant help and we have one 10 minute break a day. I'm lucky to get 20 minutes lunch.

Yes we get 12 weeks holidays a year and yes we work about 50% of those but it's still worth it.

I am not moaning here, I love my job and for the record I didn't strike, I went to work.

Your ignorance is, quite frankly, unbelievable and laughable.

Oh and for the record, all the secondary teachers I know have it much easier than the primary teachers. Fact.

Also - children come into school at 8.50 and leave at 3.20 so you were wrong there too.

Oh and we have 6 inset days a year which are in school training days not days off as you insinuate.

And the "caretaker" doesn't clean the floors, he supervises the team of cleaners who clean the school.
 
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Alastair said:
Ignoring the pay/pensions aspect of the debate for now..

How many people can really see a class of thirty 16 year olds being taught by a 68 year old? in any subject.. this is where any changes will ultimately fall down.
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I,m a TA in a reception class, I can't see many 68 year olds being able to keep up with a class of 4 year olds! Not to mention managing to sit on the tiny chairs we have to (everything is at 4 year old height) the parents complain when they have to sit on them at parents evening for a few mins!!

You should come into our staff room at lunchtime and see how empty it is as most staff will be dealing with childrens issues, first aid or clubs! The first part of our year in reception is spent trying to get children to eat using a knife and fork or wiping bums because many are not being taught basics at home!

Oh and before you start saying how easy TA's have it, we dont get paid in holidays but do have to pay premium prices for holidays. Many newly qualified teachers are now applying for TA jobs as there is a lack of teaching jobs available. What will happen when more teachers work for longer - where will the jobs be then for the NQT's?
 
whiteflyer said:
Wrong again

HM Government took a 43.4% stake in Lloyds Banking Group , so in fact it is still a majority private company.
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Good point - I should have cross referenced the percentages. It's 40.6% by the way (as of the 2010 accounts) - relying Wiki can be dangerous.


And whyfore you say 'again'?
 
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DemiLion said:
Good point - I should have cross referenced the percentages. It's 40.6% by the way (as of the 2010 accounts) - relying Wiki can be dangerous.

And whyfore you say 'again'?
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Come on you should know by now that I'm always right and everyone else is always wrong :lol: :) unless they are agreeing with me of course.
I knew it was less than 50% and wiki was just the quickest. :)
 
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Mickwreay said:
Referring back to previous posts,
An aircraft engineer in the RAF earns around £10,000 less than a licensed aircraft engineer in Civvy St Hence the short career & pension, paid for by the non-contributory pension scheme. Subsidised by the lower salary.
Does an admin person expect to fight for a living? No
Does a prison officer expect to fight for a living? Yes
Does a butcher expect to fight for a living? No
Does a Policeman expect to fight for a living? Yes
Does an HGV driver expect to fight for a living? No
Does a serviceman expect to fight for a living? Yes

There will always be exceptions, but a large proportion of the public sector jobs have to contend with the poop side of life & therefore are not suited to people in their late 50s?
So this is why they were offered & accepted a salary & pension to be drawn at an age where it was reasonably expected their service would end!

Mick
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Fair enough... but the people striking are teachers and job centre workers and the like... they dont need to fight for a living?
 
daizylindsay said:
Actually this is utter tripe!

I am a primary teacher and would love to work the kind of day you have so cleverly timetabled.

All teachers have to be in school before 8.30am and are not permitted to
Leave until 3.45, however, most of us get there at 8 and leave at 5.45 when we are kicked out!

Then it's home, with two hours at least of marking and prep to do.

Where are your facts from? I have no teaching assistant help and we have one 10 minute break a day. I'm lucky to get 20 minutes lunch.

Yes we get 12 weeks holidays a year and yes we work about 50% of those but it's still worth it.

I am not moaning here, I love my job and for the record I didn't strike, I went to work.

Your ignorance is, quite frankly, unbelievable and laughable.

Oh and for the record, all the secondary teachers I know have it much easier than the primary teachers. Fact.

Also - children come into school at 8.50 and leave at 3.20 so you were wrong there too.

Oh and we have 6 inset days a year which are in school training days not days off as you insinuate.

And the "caretaker" doesn't clean the floors, he supervises the team of cleaners who clean the school.
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I joke about how easy teachers have it with my mate who is a primary teacher, and he says much the same as you (although he says he only works a week or so in summer). The problem is that teachers go on about what an easy job it isnt, and highlight lack of breaks etc... thinking they are the only ones who do that. Lots of people in private sector start earlier, work through lunches, have no breaks and work late, a I remember as a sales rep at Yell I would be out the house by 730am most days and back at 6pm and then still have a couple of hours work in the evenings, or some late customer visits.
 
cambsno said:
I joke about how easy teachers have it with my mate who is a primary teacher, and he says much the same as you (although he says he only works a week or so in summer). The problem is that teachers go on about what an easy job it isnt, and highlight lack of breaks etc... thinking they are the only ones who do that. Lots of people in private sector start earlier, work through lunches, have no breaks and work late, a I remember as a sales rep at Yell I would be out the house by 730am most days and back at 6pm and then still have a couple of hours work in the evenings, or some late customer visits.
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Yep, I start at 1pm till 9pm, with ONE 30 min break.
 
cambsno said:
I joke about how easy teachers have it with my mate who is a primary teacher, and he says much the same as you (although he says he only works a week or so in summer). The problem is that teachers go on about what an easy job it isnt, and highlight lack of breaks etc... thinking they are the only ones who do that. Lots of people in private sector start earlier, work through lunches, have no breaks and work late, a I remember as a sales rep at Yell I would be out the house by 730am most days and back at 6pm and then still have a couple of hours work in the evenings, or some late customer visits.
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I don't for one minute think that teachers think they are the only ones without breaks etc. Most of us work through our breaks anyway. I think that this strike has actually been really bad for those of us who just want to get on with it without all the bitching about us having it so easy. It's like any job - you put in more, you get more out of it. Anyone can do the bare minimum in any job.
 
cambsno said:
Fair enough... but the people striking are teachers and job centre workers and the like... they dont need to fight for a living?
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For now it is yes, however quite a few public sector workers can't strike. There is only so far people can be pushed until they fight back. You only have to see the numbers the forces personnel are applying for redundancy.

I remember a huge amount of support for the fire service a few years back, the military stepped in to cover the holes. Many of the lads & lasses who covered their strikes came back with some alarming stories.

In the Dundee area there were firemen who’d only missed ONE nights sleep in their career to-date and others who’d never even been to a house fire.
Now before I get shot down in “flames” :lol: I know there are very many brave lads & lasses in the fire service & I know who I’d call if there was a fire.
But I still fail to understand why this thread is trying to blame teachers for the whole of this mess.
Mick
 
Mickwreay said:
For now it is yes, however quite a few public sector workers can't strike. There is only so far people can be pushed until they fight back. You only have to see the numbers the forces personnel are applying for redundancy.
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Now I don't know about the forces, but Manchester and Lancashire councils both asked for volunteer redundancy, and both got applications for more than need, Manchester got I believe 2500 more volunteers and Lancs 1000 or so more.

I know that one 52 year old who is one grade above gang supervisor in the gardening department on Salford City council got offered over £50K in a lump sum in redundancy, no wonder so many want to leave.

If my firm offered me £50K to leave, you would be hearing my yes reply as I peeled out the car park.

Nearly 6,000 Wirral Council staff are being asked to consider leaving their jobs in an attempt to save money.
Staff who choose to leave will receive 2.2 weeks' wages for every year worked, now if you started right out of school at 16 and are 50 now that's 75 weeks wages. The statutory minimum for the same person (which many private sector company stick too (well mine did when I got redundancy)) would be 36 weeks at a maximum of £380 a week so £13680
 
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whiteflyer said:
Now I don't know about the forces, but Manchester and Lancashire councils both asked for volunteer redundancy, and both got applications for more than need, Manchester got I believe 2500 more volunteers and Lancs 1000 or so more.

I know that one 52 year old who is one grade above gang supervisor in the gardening department on Salford City council got offered over £50K in a lump sum in redundancy, no wonder so many want to leave.

If my firm offered me £50K to leave, you would be hearing my yes reply as I peeled out the car park.

Nearly 6,000 Wirral Council staff are being asked to consider leaving their jobs in an attempt to save money.
Staff who choose to leave will receive 2.2 weeks' wages for every year worked, now if you started right out of school at 16 and are 50 now that's 75 weeks wages. The statutory minimum for the same person (which many private sector company stick too (well mine did when I got redundancy)) would be 36 weeks at a maximum of £380 a week so £13680
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Yes, but redundancy payments can also be capped much lower to about 7.5k should the employer so wish.
 
Mickwreay said:
I for one hope this thread runs & runs, cos there are some foxy teachers turning up :love: You know who you are :thumbs:

Oh, any male teachers please post on another forum please :lol:
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Erm ... please ignor that comment .. male teachers are free to jump in on the thead :thumbs:
 
Mind you, not sure I fancy a male teacher myself, all they do it would appear is moan about their work load and how short their breaks are.
 
daizylindsay said:
I don't for one minute think that teachers think they are the only ones without breaks etc. Most of us work through our breaks anyway. I think that this strike has actually been really bad for those of us who just want to get on with it without all the bitching about us having it so easy. It's like any job - you put in more, you get more out of it. Anyone can do the bare minimum in any job.
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:thumbs:
 
oh no a pack of female teachers ... how will you cope :D
 
has this thread now run its course?
 
i'll leave it open, its been quite good, even if it did go a bit political.
 
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