Todays teachers strike

ding76uk said:
Teachers 67, why not the army too?
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Shows how little you understand about the military.

ding76uk said:
Older teachers are not as affective generally and will generally fall behind with technology.
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That's age discrimination.

ding76uk said:
Work til 67, OK, what about the younger people who cannot get into employment so have to go onto benefits because positions are filled, Working longer creates an issue in the whole employment sector.
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So we should make one group of people unemployed in order to employ a different group? If that's the case why not retire everybody at 60 and not just teachers?

ding76uk said:
Those with private pensions, do you have to now work til 67 to take your pension? Genuine question I don't know how they work.
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That depends on your personal pension scheme. The difference here is that you're not asking other people to pay into it. You get back what you put it.
 
What those on strike don't realise is there are millons of people out of work and looking for jobs. Ok granted some of the jobs may not be able to be done without some training but I don't think in the present climate going on strike is a very good idea. Maybe they should consider this before they loose their jobs to others seeking work. Going on strike invalidates any contract between employer and employee and on top of that they could even loose their pensions as well as their jobs.

Realspeed
 
ding76uk said:
Do we not care about the quality of our teachers? If they reduce wages and pensions then it becomes a very low paid job for the amount of education required. Therefore those who would make amazing teachers will not go into the profession due to the wages. This way everyone suffers.
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Or altenatively, only those with a true passion for teaching will go into it?
 
realspeed said:
What those on strike don't realise is there are millons of people out of work and looking for jobs. Ok granted some of the jobs may not be able to be done without some training but I don't think in the present climate going on strike is a very good idea. Maybe they should consider this before they loose their jobs to others seeking work. Going on strike invalidates any contract between employer and employee and on top of that they could even loose their pensions as well as their jobs.

Realspeed
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It is illegal to dismiss someone because they go on strike.
 
realspeed said:
What those on strike don't realise is there are millons of people out of work and looking for jobs. Ok granted some of the jobs may not be able to be done without some training but I don't think in the present climate going on strike is a very good idea. Maybe they should consider this before they loose their jobs to others seeking work. Going on strike invalidates any contract between employer and employee and on top of that they could even loose their pensions as well as their jobs.

Realspeed
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How many teachers are on the dole looking for work??? I ask this because ok there is a high unemployment but how many of those unemployed can actually teach or for that matter have the ability to be trained to teacher level,

I see what you are saying but I do not think it would work.

spike
 
Did anyone hear the interviews on Radio 4 this morning - hilarious, thrust, parry and repost.

Especially when the interviewer repeatedly asked the MP if he had actually read the Hatton report, which both sides are using to slap the other around the head with.......he obviously hadn't:lol:
 
Average mid level teacher on £32000 a year in wages doing 40 years service will retire with about a 40K lump sum and £290 a week penision for life, index linked of course plus like everyone else they get old age pension on top.

The gold plated bit is that unlike a private pension that is a risk to econmic condtions at the time of retirement a public sector pension is guaranteed .

They will of couse have to pay tax on some of this.

Now remember some public sector workers are not on £32K a year but others are on a hell of a lot more so will in turn get a much bigger pot, working with those figure the cheif execative of my local small town council will have a pension of £1270 a week.


The figures above come from a BBC R2 interview at dinnertime and were agreed by the union and goverment spokesperson.
 
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ding76uk said:
Compared to? If you read the rest of the post I said compared to jobs which require a similar level of education!
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Unfortunately in the current climate, there's several graduates leaving uni unable to find a decent job and working in semiskilled jobs.
So I know of, a burger king shift manager, a call centre worker, a lowly IT bod, an office clerk and a stores person hoping to work his way up.

There's no shortage of new teachers coming out of University (and don't even get me onto the pass marks they require to get a degree).
 
Teachers pay scale starts at 21K for a newly qualified teacher, rising to 32K. However pass a few criterea and you get recognised as an advanced skills teacher (keeping good teachers teaching rather then heading into management). That scale goes from 37K to 57K, or you've the newer Excellent Teacher payscale of 37K to 52K.

That's for outside london. London ratings are higher.
 
jeangenie said:
I left teaching in 1999. I worked in further education (mostly 16-19 year olds, some adults). I, like many, but not all of my colleagues, worked 50-60 hours most weeks and because of the nature of my job, often only got 2-3 weeks 'holiday' in the summer. Once 'A' level results were published I was back in college full-time. I loved my job and the students were challenging, entertaining, rewarding and a p-i-t-a!

I went on strike once to help publicise the situation of colleges where staff got a really poor deal when their colleges were incorporated (funds received from central government, rather than from the LA). I hated doing that, but if you belong to a union, I think you have to stand with the union - or leave it. Ironically, the union agreed I could actually go into college that day (without pay!) because some of my students were taking a shorthand exam and a stranger doing the dictation would have been off-putting for them.

I got my pension at 60, for which I'm extremely grateful, but the value of my savings has gone down and down and as for interest - what interest? :lol:

Would I be striking today? I doubt it! Life has changed - the country's got huge debts to finance and whether we like it or not we'll all suffer the pain. Neither private nor public sector employees deserve it. It's galling to see the huge salaries and bonuses paid to people who don't appear to be adding value to this country, but life never came with a guarantee of fairness. That hasn't changed! :lol:

We're better off than Greece. :)

Jean
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Top post! We're in a world of trouble and it isn't going to go away any time soon. Everyone has to bear the burden of getting us out of the mire or they should if it's done fairly.

As far as pensions go - you take out of them in proportion to what you put in is the harsh reality.
 
CT said:
As far as pensions go - you take out of them in proportion to what you put in is the harsh reality.
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Very true, the issue is that we the tax payers are put 14% of a public sectors workers wage into his pot while they put 6% in.

It's this 14% that's a problem. Now if the goverment brought in laws that all employers had to put 14% in to our pension pots there would be a lot less resentment.
 
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Public sector workers are also tax payers so effectively contributing to their pensions twice

Don't blame them trying to defend their pensions, but unfortunately the teachers will have to just suck it up. Lack of popular support and not much economic damage done by their industrial action, also lack of other jobs for them to undertake should they leave education

I don't think we should set the lowest common denominator as a benchmark and perhaps people in the private sector should have fought harder when their final salary pensions were closed, but its too late now i'm afraid
 
cambsno said:
Exactly - teachers are low paid... dont make me laugh...
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Maybe not - but for a job that needs degree plus postgrad qualification and the
responsibilities that go with it they are far from high either
 
boyfalldown said:
Maybe not - but for a job that needs degree plus postgrad qualification and the
responsibilities that go with it they are far from high either
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Nurses have responsibility and far less money. Train drivers and coach drivers have responsibility. Teachers are not unique, although they seem to think they are. Teachers know the salary before they start, so if its that poor why did they not do a different job.
 
If there is sufficient funds in the pensions fund* to pay these pensions fine, if the fund isn't performing then they will just have to take a cut or pay more in and work longer, that's life.
My pension fund is valued every three years and half of any profits are taken by the government because they have guaranteed the pensions will be paid(ex nationalised industry), not one has the fund taken a hit and since the number of pensioners is declining they are on a winner. I wonder just what my pension would be worth if all the profits had been ploughed back into the fund. I paid 5% and my employer 5.5%, I wish they had paid 14% I'd be well enough off to pay someone to type my posts for me.:lol:

* I am assuming that these pensions work this way and not funded by the almost bottomless pit that is the taxpayer.?
 
CT said:
Everyone has to bear the burden of getting us out of the mire or they should if it's done fairly.

As far as pensions go - you take out of them in proportion to what you put in is the harsh reality.
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I agree - this is reality! If we as a nation don't get our finances back into some sort of order, we'll become another European basket case economy and in thrall to the money lenders for the foreseeable future.

What kind of inheritance is that to pass on to our children and grandchildren?

Jean
 
acetone said:
Average mid level teacher on £32000 a year in wages doing 40 years service will retire with about a 40K lump sum and £290 a week penision for life, index linked of course plus like everyone else they get old age pension on top.

The gold plated bit is that unlike a private pension that is a risk to econmic condtions at the time of retirement a public sector pension is guaranteed .
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I guess they should give up defending their terms and conditions and join the race to the bottom like the rest of us.
acetone said:
They will of couse have to pay tax on some of this.

Now remember some public sector workers are not on £32K a year but others are on a hell of a lot more so will in turn get a much bigger pot, working with those figure the cheif execative of my local small town council will have a pension of £1270 a week.


The figures above come from a BBC R2 interview at dinnertime and were agreed by the union and goverment spokesperson.
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How much do chief executives get in the private sector?
 
cambsno said:
Nurses have responsibility and far less money. Train drivers and coach drivers have responsibility. Teachers are not unique, although they seem to think they are. Teachers know the salary before they start, so if its that poor why did they not do a different job.
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I never said they were bad - I just pointed out that for the requirements of the job they're not that high either

Comparing with nurses isn't really on they are both under paid and the qualifications needed vary far more.

Train drivers are private sector employees
 
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I think it seems a bit unfair that teachers are getting the brunt of this whole argument about public sector workers? :shrug:

I remember only too well, having to cover for the Fire Service a few years ago. I’m not gonna say whether it was right or wrong, but the British forces NEVER got the choice to strike. :shake: They too have had pay freezes & allowance cuts.

As has been said on many a post here, all areas of employment are being hit. Surely anyone who has been promised a certain package is going to feel aggrieved & fight for their position?
The forces were asked to choose between AFPS75 & AFPS05 further explained here:- http://www.ctp.org.uk/assets/x/51943

The main thing is, we had a choice, I personally think the way ahead is to make the big changes for all new applicants into the public sector, that way people have a choice as to go into the public or private sector?

The UK has a great NIMBY tradition and the same attitude applies to our own circumstances, it’s easy to have a go at someone or something that you either don’t understand or does not affect you!
I’m sure anyone who has had major changes to their financial planning through no fault of their own has had to make some major decisions about how to proceed.
If you live in an area where the public sector is a major source of employment then it’s possible you have no choice but to accept the changes, no matter how hard they may hit you.
 
whiteflyer said:
The key word is PRIVATE, not paid for by the tax payer.
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There needs to be a vague parity between the two sectors though else you'll get only 3rd rate people in the public sector. Traditionally that parity came from better pensions
 
boyfalldown said:
I never said they were bad - I just pointed out that for the requirements of the job they're not that high either

Comparing with nurses isn't really on they are both under paid and the qualifications needed vary far more.

Train drivers are private sector employees
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If the public sector are so underpaid? Why do people go into the job? Oh wait for all the cries of vocation in life and wanting to work with children!

Well That's the deal they signed up for. The country is deep in the brown stuff.....Those who choose to strike are just adding to the problem
 
ANDYHOP said:
As I've said on other sites.

Secondary school teachers work hard and get all sorts of abuse.

Primary Teachers easiest job in the world and cant get that right for when the children go to secondary school.
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Primary education is probably the most important few years in a childs schooling, hopefully providing a foundation for the next ten years which are to follow.

Primary school teachers in the UK may enter without any knowledge of the fundamental principles of Early Childhood Education. If our schools demanded degree's with the levels of expertise afforded by this job specific qualification (as is the case in Singapore) then our teachers may well do better.
 
Splog said:
If the public sector are so underpaid? Why do people go into the job? Oh wait for all the cries of vocation in life and wanting to work with children!

Well That's the deal they signed up for. The country is deep in the brown stuff.....Those who choose to strike are just adding to the problem
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Eh? I said i thought nursing underpaid. I don't recall anything about vocations, crys of oh the children and my first Line of that quote was about teachers payscales not been bad.
 
cambsno said:
Nurses have responsibility and far less money. Train drivers and coach drivers have responsibility. Teachers are not unique, although they seem to think they are. Teachers know the salary before they start, so if its that poor why did they not do a different job.
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Incorrect. The minimum starting salary for a registered nurse is £21,176.

Going up to a maximum of £97'478

So really saying teachers have it easy compared with nurses is rubbish.

Source: http://www.rcn.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/233901/003303.pdf
 
whiteflyer said:
The key word is PRIVATE, not paid for by the tax payer.
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Mmmmm my last RAF pay slip certainly had a TAX deduction on it :shrug: Do you think the public sector do not pay TAX?

Splog said:
Well That's the deal they signed up for. The country is deep in the brown stuff.....Those who choose to strike are just adding to the problem
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When you sign up for the "deal" do you not have the right to expect it to be honoured?

As far as a vocation is concerned, some people actually DO sign up to do a job without money being the only factor! How many pilots, engineers & many other trades across the forces settle for lower wages? Maybe many eventually do move into the private sector to earn better wages but they agreed to do the job which included a pension!
 
mj4456 said:
If there is sufficient funds in the pensions fund* to pay these pensions fine, if the fund isn't performing then they will just have to take a cut or pay more in and work longer, that's life.
My pension fund is valued every three years and half of any profits are taken by the government because they have guaranteed the pensions will be paid(ex nationalised industry), not one has the fund taken a hit and since the number of pensioners is declining they are on a winner. I wonder just what my pension would be worth if all the profits had been ploughed back into the fund. I paid 5% and my employer 5.5%, I wish they had paid 14% I'd be well enough off to pay someone to type my posts for me.:lol:

* I am assuming that these pensions work this way and not funded by the almost bottomless pit that is the taxpayer.?
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No these pension DO NOT work that way at all, currently there is a £5 billion annual shortfall of contribution to payout (this is set to rise in the future) this £5Bn is paid out of the general taxation fund that you and I pay in to, this is why is called a gold plated pension, there is no risk.

Now teachers are getting the brunt of it in this thread (I guess because they are the main ones on strike today) but there are 6.2 million public sector workers who want the rest of us to top their pension up .


The public sector are no longer under paid for the job, yes in the past they were paid less but the perk was the pension. Now over resent years public sector pay has risen to be on a pair or generally above the average private sector pay, yet they still want the the golden pension.

We have had the low pay cry hurled at us for so long we tend to believe it to still be true and it's just not the case any more.
 
Byker28i said:
Unfortunately in the current climate, there's several graduates leaving uni unable to find a decent job and working in semiskilled jobs.
So I know of, a burger king shift manager, a call centre worker, a lowly IT bod, an office clerk and a stores person hoping to work his way up.

There's no shortage of new teachers coming out of University (and don't even get me onto the pass marks they require to get a degree).
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I own Kennels and Cattery, and even we have had university graduates applicants looking for work as kennel hands. In actual fact they stand the least chance of lower paid jobs because if a job they are qualified in comes up they are going to take it and get better paid . So its not even worth considering employing them as they will be gone.

The thing is if the strikers are unhappy with what they are asked to accept then they should seek other work which pays what they want (if there is any such work out there :shake::shake::shake:). We are currently turning away between 15 and 20 job applications a week, so those on strike should consider themselves lucky they have a job.

Realspeed
 
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Mickwreay said:
When you sign up for the "deal" do you not have the right to expect it to be honoured?
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The "deal" I signed up for when starting work was that at 65 I would get my old age pension and my state earnings related pension (SERPS), well that deal was broken by both the last and current governments as I now have to work till I'm 66. For those younger than I it will be 68.

I also have a private pension and when taken out got a certain amount of tax relief on it for doing the right thing and providing for my future. Unfortunately as chancellor the first thing Gordon Brown did was lower that relief rate,

Gordon Brown's ruthless raid on pension schemes has cost the country's private pension savers at least £150Bn.
He scrapped the tax relief on dividends paid into pension funds just a few weeks after Labour came to power.
Before 1997, a pension fund could, for example, be paid £80 in dividends and get £20 in cash back from the Treasury in tax relief. On Budget Day, 3 July 1997, Mr Brown axed the tax relief. The change took effect immediately, there was no discussion or debate, no time to plan ahead.


Funny thing is when all this happened to me those public sector workers and their unions said b****r all, it was just hard luck, don't like it now the shoe is on the other foot.

If fact some union leaders at the time said Brown had not gone far enough and should have taken MORE out of private pensions.
 
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boyfalldown said:
Eh? I said i thought nursing underpaid. I don't recall anything about vocations, crys of oh the children and my first Line of that quote was about teachers payscales not been bad.
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But nursing is paid at the rate It's paid at. They accepted that rate...

The rest of my post was my opinion and not directed at you..... :D
 
whiteflyer said:
The public sector are no longer under paid for the job, yes in the past they were paid less but the perk was the pension. Now over resent years public sector pay has risen to be on a pair or generally above the average private sector pay, yet they still want the the golden pension.

We have had the low pay cry hurled at us for so long we tend to believe it to still be true and it's just not the case any more.
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Public sector jobs are equal to civvy pay? Scroll to Corporal level 1 in left hand column.

This is the current pay scales for the UK forces.
http://www.armedforces.co.uk/armypayscales.htm

See this link to a civvy licensed engineer, CPL in the RAF has a massive responsibility as far as signing off work on aircraft. Equal pay?

http://www.mysalary.co.uk/average-salary/Licensed_Aircraft_Engineer_7962
 
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