To trespass or not to trespass...

Chris Wormwell said:
No.
The question was (and is) "would you?".

I am making all sorts of inquiries to locate the landowner and if I am unsuccesful, then I will not use the location.
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over here where its a civil matter yes, over there no as it'd be harder to blag my way out
 
Good news! I've just received an email with name, address and telephone number of the person who owns the property. Now all I have to do is pluck up the courage to either ring him or call round. That's going to be just as hard (for me) as tracking the guy down!
 
Phone call should be easy. You know what you want now ask for it. If you sound nervous they'll think you're an amateur. Sound confident, ask for what it is your after and have some sort of comeback if they ask you what's in it for them. Don't do the phone call unprepared.
 
Chris Wormwell said:
No, the law is not "pretty straightforward here."
Trespass is a criminal offence on the Isle of Man - just be careful when giving out ill-informed legal advice.
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Read the post more carefully before you get pi**y with me. I said 'the law is pretty clear HERE'! Here as where english law applies. If you know its a criminal offence why the original question. Jeez

Dunc
 
Duncan.F said:
Read the post more carefully before you get pi**y with me. I said 'the law is pretty clear HERE'! Here as where english law applies. If you know its a criminal offence why the original question. Jeez

Dunc
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Nice way to give an alternative impression of what you wrote.
Of course without this highlighted emphasis (your CAPS) perhaps you can understand my, apparent, misinterpretation of what you wrote?
The written word eh?

I've already explained the reason for my asking the question.
 
Just read this 1 through & would love to hear the outcome when you contact the owner, if it was my property that was abandoned I would have no probs with you using it, so long as you understood its at your own risk!
 
fracster said:
Quite frankly, I don`t give a flyer about urbexers, but if you think you can wander about our land FOC, then you will have a rude awakening.

If you wish to access others peoples property then have the decency to ask for permission. If that is, as seems, beyond you, then don`t whinge about the consequences. And there could well be some.
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Your entire post is contradicting.

It's like saying 'I don't give a flyer about smokers' and then in the same breath going 'eugh, i despise people who smoke cigarettes'.

Who says I am whinging about consequences either? You don't know who I am or anything about me, so please don't make judgements or assumptions.

I suggest you read this as it will give you some insight about what urbex is and why folk do it: http://www.catchingphotons.co.uk/html/why_explore_.html

However, if you're one of these people who will only ever be as black and white as 'trespass is trespass' then I don't expect you to understand it.
 
Ask for permission. I was raised to respect other people. If you can't find the owner easily this is no excuse. Its common decency to ask the owner he can easily sign a disclaimer concerning the legal implictions if there is and accident. Laziness on your part is simply a matter of professionalism.
 
trencheel303 said:
Your entire post is contradicting.

It's like saying 'I don't give a flyer about smokers' and then in the same breath going 'eugh, i despise people who smoke cigarettes'.

Who says I am whinging about consequences either? You don't know who I am or anything about me, so please don't make judgements or assumptions.

I suggest you read this as it will give you some insight about what urbex is and why folk do it: http://www.catchingphotons.co.uk/html/why_explore_.html

However, if you're one of these people who will only ever be as black and white as 'trespass is trespass' then I don't expect you to understand it.
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Not really. nowhere does he say that he even dislikes urbexers. :thinking:
 
On reading it again you are indeed correct. Still the post is contradictory in how he apparently doesn't give a hoot about urbexers but... and the rest.
 
I wouldn't bother asking the owner, he will be watching for visitors just go for it with stealth, its only trespass, as long as your not going to do damage, going equipped to break in, or intent to steal anything, its just civil, and youll get kicked out, well thats my experience, obviously just comply with security or whoever and leave no probs, assuming the buildings unoccupied and derelict
 
Just Dave said:
I wouldn't bother asking the owner, he will be watching for visitors just go for it its only trespass, as long as your not going to do damage, going equipped to break in, or steal anything, its just civil, and youll get kicked out, well thats my experience
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....Aaaaand cue the replies!

:beer:
 
Just Dave said:
I wouldn't bother asking the owner, he will be watching for visitors just go for it its only trespass, as long as your not going to do damage, going equipped to break in, or steal anything, its just civil, and youll get kicked out, well thats my experience
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Given that the OP is in the Isle of Man where trespass is a criminal offence?
 
fabs said:
Given that the OP is in the Isle of Man where trespass is a criminal offence?
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Ah I used to live in Port St Mary I worked in the kitchen at the Bay Queen Hotel, and never had any probs, rooting around old buildings, but if your saying that I rethink my post
 
trencheel303 said:
Your entire post is contradicting.

It's like saying 'I don't give a flyer about smokers' and then in the same breath going 'eugh, i despise people who smoke cigarettes'.

Who says I am whinging about consequences either? You don't know who I am or anything about me, so please don't make judgements or assumptions.

I suggest you read this as it will give you some insight about what urbex is and why folk do it: http://www.catchingphotons.co.uk/html/why_explore_.html

However, if you're one of these people who will only ever be as black and white as 'trespass is trespass' then I don't expect you to understand it.
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If trespass isn't trespass, then what is it? .... How can you possibly know what damage you may be causing, without at least talking to the owners first? :shrug: It may look unused or abandoned to you, but so what? .. it's someone else's property :thinking:
 
Here we go again... :cuckoo: okay, last post on the subject - because knowing my luck, it'll descend into an argument and I'll be the one who ends up banned.


If trespass isn't trespass, then what is it?
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As I suggested earlier in the thread, to explain why there is more to it than just trudging across someone else's land, is far beyond the scope of the thread, and I'm certainly not going to go into it at this late hour. It also requires open minds which clearly a lot of people on this forum don't possess. You're not an urbexer, so you don't understand, clearly. Nuff said.


How can you possibly know what damage you may be causing, without at least talking to the owners first?
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You can't honestly be for real? I'm pretty sure I know I'm not causing any damage by going through holes in fences that already exist, and opening doors that are already ajar/unlocked. Are you another one of these folk who think that urbexers smash, bash and crash their way into buildings with a crowbar and a bulldozer?

You do realise that CatTank is just a joke, right?!

CatTank.jpg
 
trencheel303 said:
Here we go again... :cuckoo: okay, last post on the subject - because knowing my luck, it'll descend into an argument and I'll be the one who ends up banned.

Hopefully! .. :lol:


As I suggested earlier in the thread, to explain why there is more to it than just trudging across someone else's land, is far beyond the scope of the thread, and I'm certainly not going to go into it at this late hour. It also requires open minds which clearly a lot of people on this forum don't possess. You're not an urbexer, so you don't understand, clearly. Nuff said.





You can't honestly be for real? I'm pretty sure I know I'm not causing any damage by going through holes in fences that already exist, and opening doors that are already ajar/unlocked. Are you another one of these folk who think that urbexers smash, bash and crash their way into buildings with a crowbar and a bulldozer?

You do realise that CatTank is just a joke, right?!

CatTank.jpg
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You clearly know nothing about me, so why the quote :D

Actually I am real :thumbs: I don't think you use a bulldozer! but I'm sure you wouldn't be amiss to using a crowbar (if that was required ) or for that matter some carefully placed boot (by accident, of course?) .... after all it's the shot that counts .. right!
:shake: ... Nuff said
 
I did it today.

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=223323

It scared the **** out of me and I loved every second.

I know if I was the land owner I'd be pretty annoyed but something as abandoned as this I can't really see the harm other than danger to myself. I do believe in asking for permission but it's just not feasible on a larger scale. I walk over dozens of farm fields and I've never had anyone come and say beep, mainly because I have a camera in my hand and I'm alone and don't have a stripy tracksuit, a 6-pack of stella in my hand and a dozen friends.

It's a fine line and it depends on your morals. I believe in shooting for the moment and you can take away the magic of the shot. I like having my camera experience my surroundings at the same time I do.
 
trencheel303 said:
Here we go again... :cuckoo: okay, last post on the subject - because knowing my luck, it'll descend into an argument and I'll be the one who ends up banned.




As I suggested earlier in the thread, to explain why there is more to it than just trudging across someone else's land, is far beyond the scope of the thread, and I'm certainly not going to go into it at this late hour. It also requires open minds which clearly a lot of people on this forum don't possess. You're not an urbexer, so you don't understand, clearly. Nuff said.




You can't honestly be for real? I'm pretty sure I know I'm not causing any damage by going through holes in fences that already exist, and opening doors that are already ajar/unlocked. Are you another one of these folk who think that urbexers smash, bash and crash their way into buildings with a crowbar and a bulldozer?

You do realise that CatTank is just a joke, right?!

CatTank.jpg
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If you wish to make your point, do it like an adult. Insulting remarks will not win any arguments. Remember, you are discussing breaking the law, you do not have the moral high ground.
 
Clearly not many on here have ever been squatters....

These days I'd consider an 'abandoned' building that is open (you don't have to break into) on land that is accessible and is not obviously off-limits for any reason is perfectly acceptable to use for photography. If the landowner doesn't want people there it is up to them to make sure the building (and the perimeter fencing) is secure.

Yes it might be 'breaking the law' but so what? Live a little!
 
So you have the guys number, what are you going to say?

"Hi, you own the abandoned farm by the whatever and as photographer, I would like to use the building as a location fro a shoot"

"Urmmm, Okay, the outside should be fine"

"Well, I'd really love to shoot inside, because it has a really great look for the photos I want"

"So you have been inside already???"

could make for some fast explaining....
 
^^Tell him you looked through the window ;)

Duncan.F said:
Law is pretty straightforward here. trespass is a civil matter. However, the Police often tag Trespass with Intent to.... burgle/damage et al. The risk is that IF you are found on someone elses property they could call the Police and say you have damaged something even if you haven't. 'Well officer this door wasn't like this when I was here last week.....'
You don't know for example that it may have just been sold for redevelopment.

As far as the model goes, your insurance and maybe hers will only cover you both if you are in a legitimate area when an accident happened.

Can of worms spring to mind.

Get permission first!

Dunc
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Depends on your attitude towards the police when they have caught you, they will carry out a stop and search, and from what I hear, they will escort you offsite if nothing of the unsavorary nature is found...Being a prick towards them will make them throw the book at you.
 
The only legal thing that could happen is that you could be asked to leave so go for it so long as you don't have to force entry I can't see a problem.
 
TonyTaff said:
The only legal thing that could happen is that you could be asked to leave
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Did you read the thread? Did you not see that he's on the Isle of Wight and that trespass there is apparently not a simple civil matter? :)
 
fracster said:
What gives you people the right to wander onto other peoples land and do what you want?

Sorry but your bang out of order, find out who owns the land and have the decency to ask for permission.
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Well said, as we own a farm also and have people wandering all over it we would be well pi**ed off if we found you on here taking photos without permission.:nono:

People like you think they have the right to it because it is not being used, but remember it is owned by someone and I am sure they would say it was o.k. if you took the trouble to find out who owned it and then went and asked permission.:shrug:

Go for it, and get caught, and suffer the consequences:help: You are being watched !!
 
I can see where people are coming from on both sides of the argument.

Legally Briony, me coming onto your farm to shoot without your permission, assuming no damage is being done, is no different to the mail guy walking up my driveway to put letters through my mailbox.

The consequences would simply be you asking me to leave your property. It's only once a person refuses to leave that it becomes a matter for the police.

But, there's legal and then there's what's right. Personally, I'm of the opinion to ask permission beforehand. If I wanted to go shoot in a run down old barn or something, I wouldn't hesitate to go knock on the door and ask if they minded.

I've yet to meet a farmer of the "get orf my land!" variety, when asking for permission, and found most to be extremely nice people, usually suggesting I pop back for a cuppa and a chat when I'm done doing whatever I'm on their land to do.
 
Photo Plod said:
He's on the Isle of Man. The Isle of Wight is part of England & Wales and subject to the same law :lol:
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I shouldn't reply to posts when I'm still half asleep. Dunno why I was thinking isle of Wight, lol. :)
 
Kaouthia said:
I can see where people are coming from on both sides of the argument.

Legally Briony, me coming onto your farm to shoot without your permission, assuming no damage is being done, is no different to the mail guy walking up my driveway to put letters through my mailbox.

The consequences would simply be you asking me to leave your property. It's only once a person refuses to leave that it becomes a matter for the police.

But, there's legal and then there's what's right. Personally, I'm of the opinion to ask permission beforehand. If I wanted to go shoot in a run down old barn or something, I wouldn't hesitate to go knock on the door and ask if they minded.

I've yet to meet a farmer of the "get orf my land!" variety, when asking for permission, and found most to be extremely nice people, usually suggesting I pop back for a cuppa and a chat when I'm done doing whatever I'm on their land to do.
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I don't want to go too far off topic - in essence, you're right - simple trespass is just that. However, the example you've used to illustrate your point is actually an offence under s27 Firearms Act 1968. Trespassing with a firearm - whether an air weapon, real firearm or imitation - is a criminal offence. Its one of the few kinds of trespass that is.

Back to topic :)
 
Sorry, I meant shoot with a camera, not a firearm. ;)

Besides, who hunts with guns? far too easy, much more fun with hawks. :D
 
trencheel303 said:
Here we go again... :cuckoo: okay, last post on the subject - because knowing my luck, it'll descend into an argument and I'll be the one who ends up banned...
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I'm fairly ambivalent towards the whole urbexing thing. At lot will come down to judgement at the time but some people are too dense or stubborn and will go ahead regardless. :cuckoo:

'Trencheel' (what's your real name by the way?).

There's an old saying I think you need to bear in mind...

"It's better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you're a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt"

We've safely established that on the Isle of Man, trespass would be a CRIMINAL OFFENCE... If photographers can't abide by the law, it's no wonder the police are stopping everyone left, right and centre! :thinking:

Si
 
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