To trespass or not to trespass...

Chris Wormwell

Chris Wormwell

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Hi all,
I've got an upcoming shoot, my first ever with a "Glamour specialist". Now, rather than just doing a formulaic/routine shoot, one of the ideas I have for it, is to go into an abandoned/disused farmhouse that is stuck out in the sticks - it's a got a really run-down feel, with dirty and broken windows (complete with torn net curtains) a flag stone floor and a Victorian stone fireplace filled with all sorts of rubbish in the grate - it's perfect for what I have in mind for part of the shoot.
Now comes the 'tricky' bit.
I have no idea who owns the land and have never seen anyone 'official' there - a local builder occasionally stores bits and bobs in the yard and there's a fishing pond that gets the odd angler at weekends. I have been in the 'grounds' many times in my role as a wildlife photographer and never had a problem. However, the entrance to the disused building is partially fenced off, but it's easy enough to slip around it.

So, would you? I mean, what's the worst that could happen?

ATB
Chris
 
Remember Tony Martins run down looking farm building? We all know what happened there I think.

Do be careful
 
do it, some call it urbex, be careful and don't break stuff. Go for a reccy first.

Make sure the model knows the score.

If you are asked to leave do and be polite about it
 
Ahh yeah I remember the one, however there is a huge difference in taking photos in a disused building and breaking and entering with the intent of stealing.
 
Just go ahead and do it. Many of my photos have been taken while trespassing. The worst that could happen is that someone could notice you there and ask you to leave....and your model could be either

a) starkers

or b) dressed in some incredibly glamorous clothes

which could be quite embarrassing. Couldn't it?

Or the builder could arrive. Ditto.
 
For my own photography I don't have a moral problem with trespass but in your instance I don't know a) if the law/ clauses in IoM is different (English trespass is purely civil rather than criminal) and b) what the legal (read 'litigation') position would be if the model injured herself striking a pose at your instruction.
 
Yes, if a floorboard gave way and she was injured, where do you stand? With that in mind, the owner of said house may refuse permission so that they didn't get sued if that did happen.
 
What gives you people the right to wander onto other peoples land and do what you want?

Sorry but your bang out of order, find out who owns the land and have the decency to ask for permission.
 
not really a new idea TBH.

worst that could happen is that the owners come down, tie you up and bum you but that would be the most extreme outcome :naughty:

Chris Wormwell said:
Hi all,
I've got an upcoming shoot, my first ever with a "Glamour specialist". Now, rather than just doing a formulaic/routine shoot, one of the ideas I have for it, is to go into an abandoned/disused farmhouse that is stuck out in the sticks - it's a got a really run-down feel, with dirty and broken windows (complete with torn net curtains) a flag stone floor and a Victorian stone fireplace filled with all sorts of rubbish in the grate - it's perfect for what I have in mind for part of the shoot.
Now comes the 'tricky' bit.
I have no idea who owns the land and have never seen anyone 'official' there - a local builder occasionally stores bits and bobs in the yard and there's a fishing pond that gets the odd angler at weekends. I have been in the 'grounds' many times in my role as a wildlife photographer and never had a problem. However, the entrance to the disused building is partially fenced off, but it's easy enough to slip around it.

So, would you? I mean, what's the worst that could happen?

ATB
Chris
Click to expand...
 
fracster said:
What gives you people the right to wander onto other peoples land and do what you want?

Sorry but your bang out of order, find out who owns the land and have the decency to ask for permission.
Click to expand...

^^^ 100% agreement. Think about the connotations for us all in some small part (IOM or wherever)

Ask - communicate - share; who knows what will open up for you.


Alistair
 
fracster said:
What gives you people the right to wander onto other peoples land and do what you want?

Sorry but your bang out of order, find out who owns the land and have the decency to ask for permission.
Click to expand...

<Chucklevisions Voice> Oh dear oh dear! </Chucklevisions Voice>

I guess you're one of those who hates Urbexers and think we should all be burned at the stake...


RobC said:
It's far easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission.
Click to expand...

This is very correct my man.
 
would the land registry have the title holder on record
 
trencheel303 said:
<Chucklevisions Voice> Oh dear oh dear! </Chucklevisions Voice>

I guess you're one of those who hates Urbexers and think we should all be burned at the stake...




This is very correct my man.
Click to expand...

I guess you're one of those people who think it's OK to trespass on other people's property.

Yes, it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission, doesn't make it right.
 
AndWhyNot said:
Care to expand?
Click to expand...

What I mean is that the populist opinion is persuded by law enforcers because of a tiny minority who decide that it is quite within 'their right / their law' to do whatever appears right to them. And so, these infringments all lead towards blanket laws about photography i.e. where, when, who and how!

IMO there is nothing good - Not One Thing - in breaking laws that we would be only too grateful for, were we to be the landowners.

Ask permission - if it's a no, then walk away.

Alistair
 
fabs said:
I guess you're one of those people who think it's OK to trespass on other people's property.
Click to expand...

It certain situations - which I would be happy to explain - I think so, yes. No one has to agree with me, it's just what I think.

I do think it's a rather different situation wandering across someone's back garden than it is exploring a disused power station (for instance) but the explanations that I would give are far beyond the scope of this thread.

For this particular instance, I think the person should indeed ask permission.
 
I'm in two minds on this one. Part of me feels that trespassing is wrong whatever the circumstances, another part of me feels that if it's derelict and not very well secured then it's likely no one really cares about it and, as long as you leave it as you found it, it doesn't really matter.

That said, I think if it was me, I'd try and find out who it belonged to and get permission, particularly as you're taking another person (and presumably some equipment) with you, and you're presumably going to want to be there for a reasonably substantial amount of time - mainly for your own protection more than anything else though. If it was just me and a camera and I was just going for a very quick peek, then maybe I'd think it was less of an issue...

Might the builder know who it belongs to?
 
^^^^ +1 to trencheel303 - There is a big difference in taking photo's in an abandoned building that has been left to rot, against mooching around on land that is being used. I've done a little Urbex myself and have done photo shoots under similar conditions. I think as long as you are both aware of the risks involved and most importantly CAUSE NO DAMAGE, then there is no issue.

As many Urbexer's would say - take only photographs and leave only footprints.....

From a legal point of view, in the very unlikely situation local law enforcement become involved, it is very unlikely that you will be arrested etc if you explain fully what you are doing there. Theoretically you are only guilty of tresspass which is not an arrestable offence. The problems will only come if there is existing damage etc which the police may suspect you are responsible for, in which case you may find yourself wearing some uncomfortable braclets for a short while until it can all be bottomed out in interview :)

I normally take a print out from one of the urbex websites with me to show what I'm doing - although to date I have never been challenged.

check out www.28dayslater.co.uk
 
There are many historically significant buildings in Britain that are private property but are left to rot. Frankly I'd trespass for the opportunity to see some of these treasures than to regret not seeing them at all. If it were an operational site or somewhere that was still active then of course I'd seek permission first. If after trying and still didn't get a response I'd go for it and take the risk. You're carrying camera equipment. Not a packet of matches and a can of petrol. If you're confronted defuse the situation by explaining what you're doing in a civilised manner regardless of how the other person approaches it, then leave.
 
alistair.o said:
What I mean is that the populist opinion is persuded by law enforcers because of a tiny minority who decide that it is quite within 'their right / their law' to do whatever appears right to them. And so, these infringments all lead towards blanket laws about photography i.e. where, when, who and how!

IMO there is nothing good - Not One Thing - in breaking laws that we would be only too grateful for, were we to be the landowners.

Ask permission - if it's a no, then walk away.

Alistair
Click to expand...

I'd say photography laws have been influenced more through people taking photographs of the country's many significant landmarks than through trespassing on ruined and abandoned buildings.
 
I think the key here is to think about the model.
What risks you are willing to take are irrelevant. The safety of your model should be your main concern.

If she understands the situation, fine. Go explore.
 
Well I don't mind trespassing as the way I look at it the Normans and the Church grabbed 80% of the land after 1066, so who owns it now? The Church, aristocracy and the rich erm 5% of the pop own 95% wealth of the UK.
But I'm not a commie as it's farm land I walk on and sometimes go inside derelict buildings...but am careful about closing gates damaging crops etc.
 
I'm actually pleasantly surprised that I have people on my side here, makes a bloody change. :thumbs:
 
If your caught claim squatters rights and tell the landowner to get off your property :bonk:
 
Law is pretty straightforward here. trespass is a civil matter. However, the Police often tag Trespass with Intent to.... burgle/damage et al. The risk is that IF you are found on someone elses property they could call the Police and say you have damaged something even if you haven't. 'Well officer this door wasn't like this when I was here last week.....'
You don't know for example that it may have just been sold for redevelopment.

As far as the model goes, your insurance and maybe hers will only cover you both if you are in a legitimate area when an accident happened.

Can of worms spring to mind.

Get permission first!

Dunc
 
trencheel303 said:
<Chucklevisions Voice> Oh dear oh dear! </Chucklevisions Voice>

I guess you're one of those who hates Urbexers and think we should all be burned at the stake...




This is very correct my man.
Click to expand...

Quite frankly, I don`t give a flyer about urbexers, but if you think you can wander about our land FOC, then you will have a rude awakening.

If you wish to access others peoples property then have the decency to ask for permission. If that is, as seems, beyond you, then don`t whinge about the consequences. And there could well be some.
 
fabs said:
So it's a criminal offence and you're asking if you should commit it or not? :thinking:
Click to expand...

No.
The question was (and is) "would you?".

I am making all sorts of inquiries to locate the landowner and if I am unsuccesful, then I will not use the location.
 
Chris Wormwell said:
No.
The question was (and is) "would you?".

I am making all sorts of inquiries to locate the landowner and if I am unsuccesful, then I will not use the location.
Click to expand...

That's as maybe, but why would you ask if other people would if you weren't considering it yourself?
 
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