to buy the MacPro with Retina display or not?
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I love the sound of the retina display on the new macbook pro but the soldered in flash drive and ram concern me a little as it can't be upgraded by the user and the cost of the apple upgrades if you BTO it are truly 
neil_g
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Personally I'd say no, but I think the only person to actually see one on here is on this thread post - http://talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=4743130&postcount=67
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chouglez
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I love the sound of the retina display on the new macbook pro but the soldered in flash drive and ram concern me a little as it can't be upgraded by the user and the cost of the apple upgrades if you BTO it are truly
You can change the SSD
tdodd
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I'm keeping my powder dry to until I see what the Asus U500 will deliver in the flesh. On paper it looks promising. No idea about the price, yet, but two internal bays for SSDs as well as many other tempting specs - nice. Best of all I would have no need to fart about with OS X or to put up with sub-par Bootcamp drivers and non-switching graphics for Windows.
FWIW I do all my computing at the coffee table, in bed or on the move. I have no space or use for an external monitor so the laptop has to do it all. The screen matters. A lot.
FWIW I do all my computing at the coffee table, in bed or on the move. I have no space or use for an external monitor so the laptop has to do it all. The screen matters. A lot.
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Using SetResX you can set the actual resolution of the monitor to 2880x1800 as I am currently using. If your eye sight is as good as mine it is literally like having a 27"+ monitor on your lap. I am running two full size web pages side by side and still have space. Why Apple didn't offer this as an option is beyond me. It also means that I can use Lightroom4 and CS5 in FULL resolution and the images are breathtaking.......
tdodd
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I'm very intrigued by that option, but turning 50 this month and having to wear reading glasses regularly now I wonder whether the Retina display is what I need. I like 1920x1200 on my current 17" screen and I'm sure 1920x1080 will be perfectly fine on a 15.6 incher. I don't want to lose those extra 120 lines from the display, but I'm not sure I'll benefit from Retina technology. I've seen the screen on display in Dixons at Stansted - £2024 there for the MC976 model when I saw it at the end of August - and it's nice, of course, but I fear running at native res would be a mistake for me, as lovely as it may sound for some.
The proof of the pudding would be to try using (or at least seeing) a Retina display running at full res. If I can use it then it's a no brainer and I'd go with it in a heart beat. If I can't then it would be an expensive and somewhat inconvenient solution for me. I don't want to go Mac as I have Windows only software I do not want to give up, but the display quality and resolution is a huge factor in my next choice of machine. Dell (my preferred supplier since 1998) is off the list. They haven't got a clue any more. The XPS 15 - what a state! Throttling under load, sh!tty gamut. Bunch of comedians, except it isn't funny. The Precision M4700 might come up to snuff, but it's a bit of a gorilla at 2.87Kg. Also off the list.
The proof of the pudding would be to try using (or at least seeing) a Retina display running at full res. If I can use it then it's a no brainer and I'd go with it in a heart beat. If I can't then it would be an expensive and somewhat inconvenient solution for me. I don't want to go Mac as I have Windows only software I do not want to give up, but the display quality and resolution is a huge factor in my next choice of machine. Dell (my preferred supplier since 1998) is off the list. They haven't got a clue any more. The XPS 15 - what a state! Throttling under load, sh!tty gamut. Bunch of comedians, except it isn't funny. The Precision M4700 might come up to snuff, but it's a bit of a gorilla at 2.87Kg. Also off the list.
HopefulM
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just been through this myself...
as the apple store wouldn't allow me to upload or view my own images on a mac book pro and a mac book pro retina as it was 'against their policy' to allow anyone elses images to contaminate their stock
AND they were unable to show me a mac book pro and a mac book pro retina side by side (doh!?!) for comparison...
I decided to go for the plain old mac book pro Which also has the amazing bonus of NOT allowing me to be even more pixel-peepish and critical of my own work than I already am 
good job I say
x
PS edited to say, there are some things I LOVE about it, and some things I'm struggling with... get yourself the 'one to one' which gives you a year of going into the store to get 'trained' how to use it, well worth it if you get a good trainer. And of course, it's very pretty
x
as the apple store wouldn't allow me to upload or view my own images on a mac book pro and a mac book pro retina as it was 'against their policy' to allow anyone elses images to contaminate their stock
AND they were unable to show me a mac book pro and a mac book pro retina side by side (doh!?!) for comparison...
I decided to go for the plain old mac book pro
Which also has the amazing bonus of NOT allowing me to be even more pixel-peepish and critical of my own work than I already am good job I say
x
PS edited to say, there are some things I LOVE about it, and some things I'm struggling with... get yourself the 'one to one' which gives you a year of going into the store to get 'trained' how to use it, well worth it if you get a good trainer. And of course, it's very pretty
x
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tdodd
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The Retina display, used at full resolution, should make pixel peeping at 100% far less daft/offensive than it normally is with a display of much lower pixel density and will get you quite a bit closer to "print" quality than most more conventional displays. Have a look at the table here for some examples of display pixel pitches....I decided to go for the plain old mac book pro
good job I say
x
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/11/3077659/retina-display-macbook-pro-comparison-statistics
If I view a file from my 5D3 at 100% on my current display - 17" at 1920x1200 - then it would produce a virtual image of 5760/133 = 43", which is pretty huge for examination from 12-18" away. Now viewed on a Retina display at 100% the virtual image produced would be just 5760/220 = 26" across, which is going to be a far more realistic size (even then really too big) for detailed examination whilst sitting at a laptop keyboard. You might even beat yourself and your gear up less for any supposed issues with sharpness and noise when viewing at more sensible magnifications.
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Is it a franchise? The other Apple stores do! Also you could have just uploaded your test images to a web page and clicked on them
asadhumayun85
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If your a photographer - Amature / Novice etc then yes its worth it.
tdodd
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A couple of weeks ago I took some full resolution 5D3 photos on a USB stick and a brand new Dell XPS 15 with full HD display into the local Apple store for a proper look at the 15" rMBP and to compare matching photos side by side. The sales assistant had no concerns with me doing that. I knew the Dell screen was not great, but I was blown away by the Retina screen. It really was wonderful. So I bought one.
Once I got it home the screen remained just as impressive, and I was soon running it at full resolution with Lightroom 4.1 and some raw files. It looked bloody brilliant, and even better than at "best for retina" resolution. Text was tiny, as expected, and I was fine with that, just, but I did need to establish whether that would be the case. I would want to run at full resolution all the time. That's why I want(ed) that display. Unfortunately I ran into some issues which turned me off the machine overall. Firstly the keyboard layout was extremely disagreeable for me as a Windows user of over a decade. No "#" key. "@" key in the wrong place. No "Pause" key. I also have zero interest in OS X and was itching to install Windows 8 via Bootcamp as that was my planned way to use the machine. Unfortunately I was unable to complete that task as Windows simply would not install to the partition. I double checked various web guides, unbootcamped and rebootcamped but without success. For several other reasons I knew in advance that the machine was not ideal, but the lure of the screen was strong. I really hoped that it and I would get on. Sadly(?) it was not to be.
Anyway, the Dell XPS 15 was useless for photographic editing, so that had to be returned, as did the Apple.
Today I ordered a refurb Dell Precision M6700 with IPS RGB display from the Dell Outlet. Although I'm underwhelmed by the 1920x1080 resolution, having used 1920x1200 for the last six years, I think that for my needs and preferences it will turn out to be the better choice than the Apple, but only by a little. Downsides - bigger, heavier (but it rarely moves further than between rooms at home) and lower resolution. Upsides - Much cheaper once warranty is included, more powerful, massively more storage, more easily serviced, more upgradeable, includes ODD, has Expresscard 54 slot (which is a major convenience to me), has a wider gamut, has a Windows keyboard, has a non-glare screen.
Hopefully this latest machine will be a keeper. If not then I think I will have to go back to the rMBP and suffer all the irritations and limitations just to get that wonderful screen, although resolution aside the screen on the Precision should actually be superior for photographic work, I believe. Yes, it's even more of a gorilla than the M4700, but if I'm honest with myself that is not really an issue. I just really fancied the svelte lines of the rMBP to go with that screen, but weight and size is not a priority in the great scheme of things. In any case, I have a 12" tiddler if I need to go light. The M6700 won't arrive for another week so I won't have all my answers for a while yet.
As for the Asus U500 I mentioned in an earlier post, that seems to have more than enough issues to make it a no-go for me - question mark over build quality, fans always spinning audibly, some odd throttling issues, orangey reds, proprietary storage of insufficient capacity, not cheap enough given those weaknesses.
EDIT : Out of curiosity I thought I'd price up my Dell refurb as though it was a new machine. As far as I can tell I have a perfect match on the specs except I forgot to add the Bluetooth card to the "new" configuration. Headline specs are....
- 17.3" 1920x1080 IPS RGB Anti-glare 10 bit premium panel
- Core i7-3720
- nVidia Quadro K3000M 2GB DDR5
- 16GB 1866MHz RAM
- 256GB mSATA SSD
- 750GB 7,200rpm HDD
- Space for another 2.5" drive - I have a 256GB Samsung 830 SSD and a 750GB Momentus XT available if needed
- 8XDVD+/-RW
- Intel Ultimate-N 6300 3X3 a/b/g/n Wireless
- Dell 380 Bluetooth 4
- Expresscard 54 slot
- Windows keyboard
New Dell price before Dell discounts = £4060. Obviously this is a nonsense price which should be ignored.
New Dell price after Dell discounts = £2990. This includes upgrades at inflated prices, which is pretty common practice.
My refurb price including VAT, delivery and 3yr NBD = £1745 + £15 for a copy of Windows 8 Pro.
The rMBP I would be considering is the MC976B/A, for which the best price I've found from a reliable supplier is £1,880 before the addition of 3yr Applecare, a copy of Windows and a CF card reader, all of which would take the total to around £2,100.
Once I got it home the screen remained just as impressive, and I was soon running it at full resolution with Lightroom 4.1 and some raw files. It looked bloody brilliant, and even better than at "best for retina" resolution. Text was tiny, as expected, and I was fine with that, just, but I did need to establish whether that would be the case. I would want to run at full resolution all the time. That's why I want(ed) that display. Unfortunately I ran into some issues which turned me off the machine overall. Firstly the keyboard layout was extremely disagreeable for me as a Windows user of over a decade. No "#" key. "@" key in the wrong place. No "Pause" key. I also have zero interest in OS X and was itching to install Windows 8 via Bootcamp as that was my planned way to use the machine. Unfortunately I was unable to complete that task as Windows simply would not install to the partition. I double checked various web guides, unbootcamped and rebootcamped but without success. For several other reasons I knew in advance that the machine was not ideal, but the lure of the screen was strong. I really hoped that it and I would get on. Sadly(?) it was not to be.
Anyway, the Dell XPS 15 was useless for photographic editing, so that had to be returned, as did the Apple.
Today I ordered a refurb Dell Precision M6700 with IPS RGB display from the Dell Outlet. Although I'm underwhelmed by the 1920x1080 resolution, having used 1920x1200 for the last six years, I think that for my needs and preferences it will turn out to be the better choice than the Apple, but only by a little. Downsides - bigger, heavier (but it rarely moves further than between rooms at home) and lower resolution. Upsides - Much cheaper once warranty is included, more powerful, massively more storage, more easily serviced, more upgradeable, includes ODD, has Expresscard 54 slot (which is a major convenience to me), has a wider gamut, has a Windows keyboard, has a non-glare screen.
Hopefully this latest machine will be a keeper. If not then I think I will have to go back to the rMBP and suffer all the irritations and limitations just to get that wonderful screen, although resolution aside the screen on the Precision should actually be superior for photographic work, I believe. Yes, it's even more of a gorilla than the M4700, but if I'm honest with myself that is not really an issue. I just really fancied the svelte lines of the rMBP to go with that screen, but weight and size is not a priority in the great scheme of things. In any case, I have a 12" tiddler if I need to go light. The M6700 won't arrive for another week so I won't have all my answers for a while yet.
As for the Asus U500 I mentioned in an earlier post, that seems to have more than enough issues to make it a no-go for me - question mark over build quality, fans always spinning audibly, some odd throttling issues, orangey reds, proprietary storage of insufficient capacity, not cheap enough given those weaknesses.
EDIT : Out of curiosity I thought I'd price up my Dell refurb as though it was a new machine. As far as I can tell I have a perfect match on the specs except I forgot to add the Bluetooth card to the "new" configuration. Headline specs are....
- 17.3" 1920x1080 IPS RGB Anti-glare 10 bit premium panel
- Core i7-3720
- nVidia Quadro K3000M 2GB DDR5
- 16GB 1866MHz RAM
- 256GB mSATA SSD
- 750GB 7,200rpm HDD
- Space for another 2.5" drive - I have a 256GB Samsung 830 SSD and a 750GB Momentus XT available if needed
- 8XDVD+/-RW
- Intel Ultimate-N 6300 3X3 a/b/g/n Wireless
- Dell 380 Bluetooth 4
- Expresscard 54 slot
- Windows keyboard
New Dell price before Dell discounts = £4060. Obviously this is a nonsense price which should be ignored.
New Dell price after Dell discounts = £2990. This includes upgrades at inflated prices, which is pretty common practice.
My refurb price including VAT, delivery and 3yr NBD = £1745 + £15 for a copy of Windows 8 Pro.
The rMBP I would be considering is the MC976B/A, for which the best price I've found from a reliable supplier is £1,880 before the addition of 3yr Applecare, a copy of Windows and a CF card reader, all of which would take the total to around £2,100.
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neil_g
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having seen the retina in real life since this thread started i can offer my 2p..
the retina is an excellent screen, its sharpness is very good. it makes the 27" thunderbolt screens look shoddy in comparison. however.. apps that arent optimised for the retina always look poor, slightly blurry in my opinion. youve still got that horrid glossy finish, which is a nightmare if you have any light source nearby.
and finally the screen size in general, i wouldn't like to do any long period of editing on one. so id always be inclined to suggest a good external screen in sacrifice for a poorer laptop screen.
the retina is an excellent screen, its sharpness is very good. it makes the 27" thunderbolt screens look shoddy in comparison. however.. apps that arent optimised for the retina always look poor, slightly blurry in my opinion. youve still got that horrid glossy finish, which is a nightmare if you have any light source nearby.
and finally the screen size in general, i wouldn't like to do any long period of editing on one. so id always be inclined to suggest a good external screen in sacrifice for a poorer laptop screen.
tdodd
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I don't doubt the Windows installation hiccup is surmountable. I suspect my use of a 64GB USB 3.0 NTFS formatted USB stick as the boot drive for the installation might be a factor, but I read nothing to clarify any limitations in that regard.
And yes, native res is the way to go. Otherwise why bother?
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And yes, native res is the way to go. Otherwise why bother?
disagree. native resolution makes text look way too small. Use it as large DPI and text is nice and crisp and large at the same time.
I use 27" external by the way and I sit back some 0.5m
tdodd
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I guess that depends on personal preference and eyesight. Today I am using a 17" 1920x1200 monitor with DPI at 100% and I have my Chrome browser set to a default zoom of 75%. As it's a laptop I do sit pretty close to the display - quite possibly closer than most. I would be quite happy to work with even smaller text except on this display it does fall apart when there are simply insufficient pixels to clearly define each item of text. At 67% zoom the browser is OK for most text, such as posts to this forum, but the details beneath each avatar, while legible, are a bit yucky. The retina display at native resolution should allow small text to be perfectly defined and thus very usable, for me. I know. I've done it.
Screw it. I've just set my browser default zoom to 67%.
Screw it. I've just set my browser default zoom to 67%.
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Just because you are using native resolution doesn't mean text has to be small. I use native and then inc text size. That way the text appears the same size as it would do if I were running a lower res but images etc get more pixels.