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To any Horse owners.....
- Thread starter treeman
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I'd say take it while you can its just going to go up and if you know the hay is good quality esp!
We are down near Waterlooville/Portsmouth and regular chap is at £6 a bale (they are big bales) and I know there was some issue of letting the yard have it as the farmers are starting to hold back knowing they will be able to sell at £10 a bale in a few months!
Lets pray for sunshine and rain of a good mix so we can get a 2nd cut of hay before winter sets in!
We're interested to hear of anyone selling hay and will travel with trailer to collect as majority of the yard is stabled over winter!
:-(
We are down near Waterlooville/Portsmouth and regular chap is at £6 a bale (they are big bales) and I know there was some issue of letting the yard have it as the farmers are starting to hold back knowing they will be able to sell at £10 a bale in a few months!
Lets pray for sunshine and rain of a good mix so we can get a 2nd cut of hay before winter sets in!
We're interested to hear of anyone selling hay and will travel with trailer to collect as majority of the yard is stabled over winter!
:-(
We're paying £2.50-£3 a bail in the east midlands.
"hey" i think i can make some money here anyone got a lorry
Dave
Dave Pickett
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yes the fields where we keep ours are bare as well and no real sign of rain. We have about a months supply of hay so we shall see....
Briony
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We have just finished making ours, down on yields from last year. I still have some of last years left also.
I am not selling any till after xmas when it is expected to fetch £8 - 10 per small bale so there is someone looking after the farmers at last
I am not selling any till after xmas when it is expected to fetch £8 - 10 per small bale so there is someone looking after the farmers at last
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treeman
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I wish!
We've got two horses on 6 acres and they're currently losing weight. Normally this time of year we'd be dividing the field into three, to stop them putting too much weight on!
Our normal Hay supplier is not selling us any, despite me offering £5 now, (it was £3, 4 months ago), he wants to hang on and see the price rise, needless to say he's lost us as customers.
Now managed to source 300 bales for £4 each which should just cover us for this winter.
neil_g
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unfortunately supply and demand brings out the greed in some people
Briony
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Nope just us farmers cashing in but we all have to make a living, and this year the ball is in our court for once.
He won't have lost any customers because people with horses will always want hay.:shrug: and if we have a hard winter then who know what it will be per bale.
neil_g
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Nope just us farmers cashing in but we all have to make a living, and this year the ball is in our court for once.
He won't have lost any customers because people with horses will always want hay.:shrug: and if we have a hard winter then who know what it will be per bale.
what about the people already struggling to finance the ownership of a horse in this already costly economy we're in at the moment? should they, if the cost of hay rises and theyre effectively being priced out of running a horse, be expected to sell up?
We are paying £4 - £5 a bale at the moment here in Manchester. Have previously been getting rebaled stuff from last years round bales at £3.50, but very dusty and poor quality. Horse now diagnosed with COPD so dusty hay is a no no!
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treeman
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Nope just us farmers cashing in but we all have to make a living, and this year the ball is in our court for once.
We'll have to agree to disagree!Horses round here are already being sold to the knacker man as folk can't afford to keep them, because of job losses etc, now increased hay costs...
Suddenly farmers may have no customers?
I thought hay wasn't so scarce in the North or West Country, maybe they're hoarding it too? Presume you've tried soaking your dusty hay?
Briony
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I presume so as it is luxury nowadays to own a horse.
I am not making hay to give away so people can feed it to their horses. If they can't afford to feed them then they should not have them. Farmers are not a charity. I have sold all mine except 3 ponies, 2 old ies which will live out their lives here and one 4 year old who will be sold before the winter, if not sold, I CAN afford to feed them as I have plenty of hay
Knacker men will be doing well although I should not say that but that's life :shrug:
Thankfully we do not rely on customers for hay as we can always sell it to cattle farmers, and we grow crops, so watch the price of bread etc this year as yeilds are in short supply also.
Vicious cirlcle I'm afraid.
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treeman
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This of course is very true, but at £5 a bale the producer is more than covering their losses through low yield. Anything above that is sheer greed and personally not the way I'd do business, ripping off my regular customers.
Luckily now, it's not an issue, I've simply gone elsewhere and will be sticking with him in the future.
onomatopoeia
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I've been there. A horse is about the most expensive hobby you can have, motorsport or buying pro spec DSLR equipment is peanuts in comparison.... Absolutely a luxury item that no-one should consider owning unless they are loaded and can cope with sudden huge expenses (see vets bills, or new saddles, or dramatic failure of the transmission on the Land Rover while towing etc etc).
I learned this the hard way, being involved with someone that bounced our joint account and her sole account along the overdraft limit every month. The reason, a three day eventer in training and everything that goes with it.
Now I can remember haymaking the first year a friend had a 7 acre field. I don't know how many small bales you get from an acre but it felt like hundreds after four of us collected and stacked them one evening. We could barely stand at the end. I think it was about £1.50/bale then, Hard to imagine it would be worth thousands now!
Jooo13
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Stacking and Making bales has to be the most exhausting job!I aggree that horses are the most expensive hobby. I have 2 horses and 2 ponies & my throroughbred X had a bad spell of Colic last year, resulting in heavy vets bills. Not to mention aftercare. I mean, one home visit from a vet can cost a bomb!
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neil_g
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absolutely, no denying its an expensive choice of hobby but to chase a profit from this kind of situation i find morally questionable personally.
Yes I think there may be some hoarding going on, has been for the past few years. Nobody seems to have any small bales until after christmas, then all of a sudden there is loads as everyone seems to clear out their barns!
And yes I soak my hay, hes laminitic also so every little helps! Was not fun in the snow last winter... I lost a full net for three weeks as it was frozen solid inside the bin
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treeman
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And yes I soak my hay, hes laminitic also so every little helps! Was not fun in the snow last winter... I lost a full net for three weeks as it was frozen solid inside the bin
I'd already forgotten about all that lugging barrels of water about to fill the troughs, seems along time ago in this heat I put my water buckets on an old fashioned wooden sledge that I dug out of the loft, you know the ones with the metal rails? Dragged them across the yard, easy peasy, although they occasionally built up so much speed they slid right past me and into a wall lol
You hardly have to be "loaded" to have horses, we have got 6 horses (had 7 till last week
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Now that explains why we're always skint. I've got my DSLR's and I'm into motorsport and the other half has horses, well and truly buggered then.
Been paying £3.50 a bale up here and have been for a while.
How much are people looking at paying for large round bales these days?
minky_monkey
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I was chatting to my sister yesterday, she's just got 200 bales at £3 each to last her through to about may.
S
susie
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Hay is £3.50 here at the moment, but I expect it to go up a bit October/November time. Yes its going up a lot but if you take the price of it 7-8 years ago and add inflation in line with the price of our own food, petrol etc then it should be £4-£6 a bale depending on the quality and where you are in the country.
I just hope that there are not too many welfare cases found this winter and that if people cannot afford their horses they are able to find a good home for them.
I just hope that there are not too many welfare cases found this winter and that if people cannot afford their horses they are able to find a good home for them.
ujjwaldey8165
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I always find it amazing when people bring morality into economics and free market. What's pricing got to do with morality - its all about supply and demand.
(I am not a horse owner or lover -in fact I have got nothing to do with horses, ever. But if bales sell at 5 quids, either have the money to buy it, or dont bother having horses. Tomorrow, they might go upto 10, or fall back to 2 quids. Its the same for anything else in life)
(I am not a horse owner or lover -in fact I have got nothing to do with horses, ever. But if bales sell at 5 quids, either have the money to buy it, or dont bother having horses. Tomorrow, they might go upto 10, or fall back to 2 quids. Its the same for anything else in life)
Dave Pickett
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I agree and disagree! I work in the financial services industry, but think there should be a limit on pay and profits, problem these days is that businesses are generally just too greedy at the expense of the customer.....and in many cases the staff.
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It's a bit different when the market is being manipulated and holding back on supply in order to create demand and increase prices is just that.
ujjwaldey8165
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Why exactly should there be a limit on profit - will there also be a limit on loss to offset it?
Limit on pay is even more ludicrous. Should there be a limit on how much a pro-tog can charge, no matter how good he is? You cant simply legislate away competence? And higher competence deserves higher reward.
Of course business should be greedy - as greedy as possible. Thats the business they are in. As long as they follow the laws of the land. And if the laws of the land begin to punish the business and competence, it'll go somewhere else.
As to customers - if they are mistreated, they vote with their feet; and thats their biggest power in a free market.
Whichever way you look, the morality of free market is maximising profits - and its the best practical economic solution (and the 2nd best theoretical solution).
Limit on pay is even more ludicrous. Should there be a limit on how much a pro-tog can charge, no matter how good he is? You cant simply legislate away competence? And higher competence deserves higher reward.
Of course business should be greedy - as greedy as possible. Thats the business they are in. As long as they follow the laws of the land. And if the laws of the land begin to punish the business and competence, it'll go somewhere else.
As to customers - if they are mistreated, they vote with their feet; and thats their biggest power in a free market.
Whichever way you look, the morality of free market is maximising profits - and its the best practical economic solution (and the 2nd best theoretical solution).
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ujjwaldey8165
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Sorry, no it is not manipulation of the market. The person holding back on supply is taking a risk - a legitimate business decision. As long he is not doing it via a cartel ( say such as OPEC, and something which is illegal in UK); he is as much exposed to loss as he is to profit at a later date. Its an entirely legitimate business practise. One can never be forced to sell his produce immediately. And how immediate is 'immediate' anyways.
This sort of logic is the slippery slope of communism via the wonderland of socialism.
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Sorry, no it is not manipulation of the market. The person holding back on supply is taking a risk - a legitimate business decision. As long he is not doing it via a cartel ( say such as OPEC, and something which is illegal in UK); he is as much exposed to loss as he is to profit at a later date. Its an entirely legitimate business practise. One can never be forced to sell his produce immediately. And how immediate is 'immediate' anyways.
This sort of logic is the slippery slope of communism via the wonderland of socialism.
I think you missed my point there but I really didn't want to go into it in that much detail. Either way, horse owners are going to get extremely ****ed off if they are told that their supplier won't sell them any hay for six months so they can double the price. I can guarantee that most will have sourced their hay long before then so it may be a legitimate business practice, but not a very wise one IMHO.
ujjwaldey8165
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Point-wise response, to avoid misunderstanding
1. Sorry about missing your point. I believed you were dis-agreeing with my assertion that free market has nothing to do with morality. ( Just curious, what was your point?)
2. Horse owners have every right to get ****ed off. Doesn't make them right or morally superior though. And there is no guarantee that prices will double in 6 months, unless all sellers gang up together - form a cartel - which isn't the case here. Conversely, horse owners were equally free to stock up when the prices were low, if they could foresee the market movement.
3. That would be a smart move. Why would they crib then, if they have done that? They outfoxed the sellers - good on them. However, if they haven't, bringing up morality is a false premise.
4. Wise or not, only time will tell. If it isn't wise, the seller will suffer. If it is wise, they will make money. The point is, and as I said in my first post - it amazes me when people bring up the morality argument into what is essentially a free market decision.
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My point was that this has nothing to do with free markets, this is to do with people getting ****ed off at being told by their suppliers that they are holding back on supply so that they can charge them double, then being told by others that if they can't afford the prices then they shouldn't have a horse. I never said anything about anyone being morally superior.
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treeman
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Ujjwal, I think we've gone a little off track here, but I appreciate your opinions.
I just started the thread to gauge what other horse owners were being charged for hay, I did later go on to say that I thought it was bad practice for our usual supplier to hold back his hay to gain maximum profit later in the year. It's a short sighted move that has already lost him our future custom and probably others too.
Talking to other horse owners at a show yesterday, it would appear that most farmers have increased their price to cover the cost of the low yield, but have maintained supply to all their existing customers as a a priority, which seems totally fair.
It's good to hear that there's still some folk in the country that haven't taken the capitalist ideals to the extreme, and have a genuine care for their customers. Just a shame they weren't running the banks for the last ten years!
I just started the thread to gauge what other horse owners were being charged for hay, I did later go on to say that I thought it was bad practice for our usual supplier to hold back his hay to gain maximum profit later in the year. It's a short sighted move that has already lost him our future custom and probably others too.
Talking to other horse owners at a show yesterday, it would appear that most farmers have increased their price to cover the cost of the low yield, but have maintained supply to all their existing customers as a a priority, which seems totally fair.
It's good to hear that there's still some folk in the country that haven't taken the capitalist ideals to the extreme, and have a genuine care for their customers. Just a shame they weren't running the banks for the last ten years!
ujjwaldey8165
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Talk about getting off track
( apologies, Mark, if I seem to have hijacked the post, it was all in the spirit of forum banter.
Re bankers, if the people did not borrow recklessly and with wanton disregard for their ability to pay, life would be good. The bankers should never have lend to people whose income never supported the repayment - but sadly enough that would be taking the capitalist idea to the extreme
)
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Byker28i
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I'll freely admit I know nothing about horses, in fact most of the time I despise them blocking up the roads riding side by side, leaving slippery, dangerous deposits on the road. Never understood the attraction of just one horsepower... apart from attractive ladies and jodphurs. I'll forgive all horse riders/owners for just that reason.
However, it's much the same as petrol costs going up/down. If you can't afford your hobby then you can't do it.
As to the anti farmer comments, I've yet to meet a really rich farmer. Most are struggling on really low incomes.
However, it's much the same as petrol costs going up/down. If you can't afford your hobby then you can't do it.
As to the anti farmer comments, I've yet to meet a really rich farmer. Most are struggling on really low incomes.
Briony
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Thank you
the lucky ones are the ones that own their farms like us and also rent a bit more to supplement the income.The suicide rates for farmers is very high, adn I can understand why.