Tips in Restaurants - A must read

Mr Bump

Mr Bump

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Wow I didn't realize so many food outlets were still ripping the waiters and servers off with admin fees on tips?

worth a read to the end.

We don't go to many of these places anyhow except Pizza Express who have said they are changing their policy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34146032
 
I read about this recently. I didn't realise how much it happened. It's bad enough that companies cream off the tips but I didn't know about Las Iguanos and their policy of waiters paying a portion of their tips. Normally when we go out, I'll take cash and often tip the change or 10%. But I use my card in so many places now, I don't bother with cash. Which makes it harder to tip.
But I'll only tip if the service is good enough, and if it's exceptional, I'll tip more. That's for the waiter(waitress) and their service, not for the owner.
 
In case anyone uses them, the worst offenders

Others also make the admin charges on service charges - Belgo (10%), Bella Italia (10%), Café Rouge (10%), Strada (10%) and Prezzo (10%).
"Our tips policy is clearly outlined on our menu in each Prezzo restaurant," a spokesman says
 
The casino I used to work for would pool the gaming staff tips and managers would get their share of them on top of their bonuses. This was after the company took their share for admin, of course,and then the government came along and took their share by taxing the tips as well. I'm not bitter, mind, because I remember that it was not so long ago that casino gaming staff were not allowed tips or gifts in any form. In fact, the company I worked for in South Africa kept all the tips for themselves!
 
I work away from home a lot and eat out and in hotels etc. I always have them take the service charge off any bill, you are not obliged to pay it.
Having said that, I always tip cash to the server, cooks etc should be remunerated sufficiently that they don't need tips.
 
One of the students who stayed with us over the Edinburgh Fringe was not given her share of tips in the restaurant she worked in- the owner kept all the staff tips.
She didn't have much choice: say and do nothing or lose her job.
Very nice girl, a friend of my daughter's. She busked to make extra money and gave a days takings to a genuine homeless person when someone robbed them.
We had 6 of them staying with us off and on over the three weeks. It's hard to find free food and accommodation in Edinburgh during the festival :)
 
I'm not sure I understand this - the restaurants presumably get charged banking fees so aren't they recovering that? I.e. if you pay £90 for a meal and tip £10, if bank charges are 10% then the bank gets £10, the restaurant gets £81 and the server gets £9.

The only 2 things that are annoying are (1) banks charging 10% fees and (2) servers getting paid so little that they can't live without the tips. Both those seem more wrong than a company recovering its actual costs.
 
northernbiff said:
I work away from home a lot and eat out and in hotels etc. I always have them take the service charge off any bill, you are not obliged to pay it.
Having said that, I always tip cash to the server, cooks etc should be remunerated sufficiently that they don't need tips.
Click to expand...

This.
I've always had service charges removed from bills.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I'm not sure I understand this - the restaurants presumably get charged banking fees so aren't they recovering that? I.e. if you pay £90 for a meal and tip £10, if bank charges are 10% then the bank gets £10, the restaurant gets £81 and the server gets £9.

The only 2 things that are annoying are (1) banks charging 10% fees and (2) servers getting paid so little that they can't live without the tips. Both those seem more wrong than a company recovering its actual costs.
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10%? I'm assuming thats on credit card charges, debit card is considerably less. Even so the restaurants shouldn't be paying their bank fees with the waiting staffs tips.
 
northernbiff said:
I work away from home a lot and eat out and in hotels etc. I always have them take the service charge off any bill, you are not obliged to pay it.
Having said that, I always tip cash to the server, cooks etc should be remunerated sufficiently that they don't need tips.
Click to expand...
This is what I do as well.
 
At the end of the day I personally don't go to any on the list apart from pizza express with the wife so if they are now changing I am happy.
Its up to others to make there own decision of course :)

The front end workers are the image of a food outlet I think so they should be treated and paid well.

@JonathanRyan sorry I can't see your content.
 
viv1969 said:
This.
I've always had service charges removed from bills.
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Two problems with that;
1. Many (most?) places will insist upon cash tips also going into the tronc anyway
2. If you request the service charge to be removed, management may see this a complaint about service and might cost your waiter/waitress their job.
 
jakeblu said:
10%? I'm assuming thats on credit card charges, debit card is considerably less. Even so the restaurants shouldn't be paying their bank fees with the waiting staffs tips.
Click to expand...

I'm only guessing at the 10% fees because of the fees they are charging their serving staff.

My point is that they aren't paying their banking fees with tips, they are passing on every penny of the tip that they receive. It's actually the banks that are taking money out of the tips.

Of course this all falls apart if bank fees are actually like 0.1% and greedy restaurants are taking 10% - but I know card fees are high for restaurants due to the high risk of fraud.
 
Yes its a tough one that, I see the only solution is to boycott places to make them change the policy but that in itself has the same issues.
Odd though that the worst offenders are big corps who you would think would like to have good image?
 
Mr Bump said:
Odd though that the worst offenders are big corps who you would think would like to have good image?
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They do, which is why they are now falling over themselves to change their policies... which of course they intended to do anyway and the timing is coincidental. ;)
 
Mr Bump said:
Yes its a tough one that, I see the only solution is to boycott places to make them change the policy but that in itself has the same issues.
Odd though that the worst offenders are big corps who you would think would like to have good image?
Click to expand...

Yeah - those are the ones that get reported. I have literally no idea what the 3 or 4 branch pizza chain in Kent do with their tips but the BBC wouldn't bother mentioning it because nobody outside Kent will have heard of it.

If you want to get really angry, there was an article on R4 the other day about petrol stations. Apparently lots of the operators of the station get no money whatsoever from selling petrol (it's all from Mars bars etc) but if there's a drive off they get charged the full wholesale price of the fuel. There was one chap who often worked 10 hour shifts then had somebody drive off so he ending up owing the firm money.
 
Most of the places I've eaten in recently have stated that service charge is not included.
One lovely Italian place was totally up front about the fact that if I tipped in cash it all went to the staff
including kitchen staff, if added to the bill it was subject to an admin charge, cash all the way for me, always has been.,
and yes if the service in rubbish they get nothing, but I've only had that happen once recently, shame really because a previous
visit served by different staff it was fab
 
Almost every London restaurant has service included at 10% or 12.5% by default. Can't remember the last time I ate somewhere (other than a pub) without service charge.
 
You shouldnt have to pay service p***ing charge, why should you, if thats the case I will carry it from the kitchen myself and save a tenner!!!

Tips why give them, I am paying for a service and a genuine thank you should be enough.
 
Give cash to the waiter/waitress if the service is good, b******s to them if it isn't, simples !!
 
Due to my job I am often away from home so eat in a lot of restaurants and I'm another that has the service charge removed. However if they do I good job I will tip in cash directly to the waiter/waitress that served me. I never place it on the table. What they then do with it is up to them. This stems from working in a restaurant when I was much younger. If the customer left a tip on the table, if we weren't quick enough the owner would scoop it and keep it for himself.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Yeah - those are the ones that get reported. I have literally no idea what the 3 or 4 branch pizza chain in Kent do with their tips but the BBC wouldn't bother mentioning it because nobody outside Kent will have heard of it.

If you want to get really angry, there was an article on R4 the other day about petrol stations. Apparently lots of the operators of the station get no money whatsoever from selling petrol (it's all from Mars bars etc) but if there's a drive off they get charged the full wholesale price of the fuel. There was one chap who often worked 10 hour shifts then had somebody drive off so he ending up owing the firm money.
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Service charge on card payments varies but IIRC is between 2-4% depending upon the card and the cash throughput the business generates on the card
 
Buck said:
Service charge on card payments varies but IIRC is between 2-4% depending upon the card and the cash throughput the business generates on the card
Click to expand...

10% did sound awfully high - but I know that card companies charge different sectors more or less depending on their fraud risk.
 
I don't think I have ever eaten at an establishment where the service charge is incorporated into the bill. I always pay cash and so always a cash tip to the waiter/waitress. Whenever we go out as an extended family unit, the poor waiter/waitress has got there work cut out anyway, some of my wife's family can be very awkward, so the tip ends up being high.
 
northernbiff said:
I work away from home a lot and eat out and in hotels etc. I always have them take the service charge off any bill, you are not obliged to pay it.
Having said that, I always tip cash to the server, cooks etc should be remunerated sufficiently that they don't need tips.
Click to expand...

Worked in catering all my life, and seen it all. Places I have worked in pool all the tips and it gets shared amongst everyone, excluding the boss. There is nothing that puts waiting staff above all the staff in catering. You have got the people peeling the vegetables and doing all the fetching and carrying, then you have the pot washers who have a really crap time, and crap money. I was a pot washer also mopping toilets and floors for many years, and on very poor wages. I was grateful when things changed in our place, and I got a share of the tips.

You need cleaners for clean pots and pans, and constant mopping floors and toilets, you need good chefs to get that food on those clean plates. Then you need servers to get those plates to the tables. All staff are vital in the smooth running of the business, so everyone should share in the tips...
 
JonathanRyan said:
..... Apparently lots of the operators of the station get no money whatsoever from selling petrol (it's all from Mars bars etc) but if there's a drive off they get charged the full wholesale price of the fuel. There was one chap who often worked 10 hour shifts then had somebody drive off so he ending up owing the firm money.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how this would work if it put the employee below minimum wage.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Yeah - those are the ones that get reported. I have literally no idea what the 3 or 4 branch pizza chain in Kent do with their tips but the BBC wouldn't bother mentioning it because nobody outside Kent will have heard of it.

If you want to get really angry, there was an article on R4 the other day about petrol stations. Apparently lots of the operators of the station get no money whatsoever from selling petrol (it's all from Mars bars etc) but if there's a drive off they get charged the full wholesale price of the fuel. There was one chap who often worked 10 hour shifts then had somebody drive off so he ending up owing the firm money.
Click to expand...

I remember seeing this some time ago, or something similar. I could see how this can happen. I did all aspects of catering, from washing up to food prep etc etc. I was moved from the kitchen, and onto home food deliveries. I got a very small token wage, a few £ per delivery. But I had to increase my car insurance to business use, and I had to pay my own petrol. I also had to pay my own car repair bills, one week I got a puncture and the tyre could not be repaired, I lost a lot of money that week. Even then I had a hard time making a living, I was very grateful for any tips I got, as without it I could not have survived :(
 
jonbeeza said:
Because they are self employed probably ..
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I guess the phrase "owing the firm money" was actually just him making a bit less profit that month due to the drive off - similar to running your own business and having a glass window smashed and having to pay a large excess.
 
boliston said:
I guess the phrase "owing the firm money" was actually just him making a bit less profit that month due to the drive off - similar to running your own business and having a glass window smashed and having to pay a large excess.
Click to expand...

He was pretty clear when he was interviewed on You and Yours. He got up in the morning, put in 10 long hard hours and at the end of it had less money that he did at the start. This wasn't a single time thing - it was happening more than once a month.

I guess averaged over the month he "made less profit" but he did mention he needed to go begging at a food bank because of the drive offs.
 
boliston said:
I guess the phrase "owing the firm money" was actually just him making a bit less profit that month due to the drive off - similar to running your own business and having a glass window smashed and having to pay a large excess.
Click to expand...

Not too sure, it is probably a bit like a franchise. When the big fuel companies take their royalties / fees or whatever they call it, probably not a lot left. I remember I was going to buy a franchise once, and it was renting sweet vending machines. You would rent the machines off the company who already sited them, you then had to buy the stock from the company. You also had to buy a van off them! When I totalled it all up, I could see it just would not work, well not in my favour at least. It worked out I would be lucky to get about £20 if I worked very hard, and around the clock too.

I wrote them a letter and said something on the lines of, ( if you have any jobs going as a machine vendor, I would happily work for you. But I will not pay you to work for you !
 
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