Tips and learning resources needed please! Studio flash

[Dman]

I've just bought an Elemental G2 kit (2 lights). I've got it up and working fine, but I cannot for the life of me get a decent shot. Being completely new to lighting I was hoping to be pointed in the direction of some decent resources on this with examples.

At the moment I have to shoot against a wall as I'm waiting for my backdrop and stand to arrive, but would also like tips on how to shoot when they're here, against white, black and grey backdrops.

If anyone has any tips on how I can at least get some decent test shots while shooting against a beige wall, that would be appreciated. At the moment my best efforts have lots of shadow, and my worst give me an end result that's half black!

This is the kit I have

http://www.studio-flash.com/professional-lighting/elemental-g2-kit-brand-new-p-589.html

 

[OutLore]

Well I guess I'll suggest Strobist, but it does seem to be very "flash" related, although I'm sure a lot of the content will apply to continuous lighting...
Well worth going through the "lighting101" and "lighting102" features - helps you reverse engineer shots - enabling you to see how it was taken, where the lights were etc...


Good luck

 

[HoppyUK]

Show us an example? How are you measuring exposure?

For a portrait, fit the brolly or softbox and position it close to the camera, just above and to one side. Adjust the power of the flash, and/or the lens f/number until the LCD image looks right. Check the histogram and you should have a nice lump in the middle

If one side is too dark, get a reflector to fill it in. A white card is fine, or even a pillowcase. Hold it close to the subject at 45 degs both to the subject and the flash. You will see the effect from the modelling light. That will give you very good basic portrait lighting Use the other light for adding interest to the background, or as an effect light as and when you've got the main light sorted.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Strobist may not be much help, it's a very useful site but very much geared towards using hotshoe flashes rather than lighting.

My own site has a series of 11 written tutorials, most of them are on studio lighting, plus 6 videos on studio lighting. There are also a few free tutorials, these are only tasters but may help you.

The Lencarta website has various short tutorials on studio lighting in the tutorials section and youtube has plenty of videos, the quality of which is very variable.

Basically you have to remember that studio lighting is nothing more and nothing less than bringing the outdoors indoors. You can replicate literally any kind of natural lighting in the studio. The trick is to ralise this, and experiment to get the effects you want, rather than 'paint by numbers' by following 'standard setups' from photography magazines and books, most of which are rubbish.

If anyone has any tips on how I can at least get some decent test shots while shooting against a beige wall, that would be appreciated.

Marc Gouguenheim is in my opinion one of the best portrait/fashion photographers in the world. see some of his examples http://www.lencarta.com/2009021759/marc-gouguenheim-on-lighting/index.php here and here and note that he uses a beige wall for most of these shots.

 

[Dman]

Strobist may not be much help, it's a very useful site but very much geared towards using hotshoe flashes rather than lighting.

My own site has a series of 11 written tutorials, most of them are on studio lighting, plus 6 videos on studio lighting. There are also a few free tutorials, these are only tasters but may help you.

The Lencarta website has various short tutorials on studio lighting in the tutorials section and youtube has plenty of videos, the quality of which is very variable.

Basically you have to remember that studio lighting is nothing more and nothing less than bringing the outdoors indoors. You can replicate literally any kind of natural lighting in the studio. The trick is to ralise this, and experiment to get the effects you want, rather than 'paint by numbers' by following 'standard setups' from photography magazines and books, most of which are rubbish.

Marc Gouguenheim is in my opinion one of the best portrait/fashion photographers in the world. see some of his examples http://www.lencarta.com/2009021759/marc-gouguenheim-on-lighting/index.php here and here and note that he uses a beige wall for most of these shots.

Thanks for these, I'll have a good look later.

Show us an example? How are you measuring exposure?

For a portrait, fit the brolly or softbox and position it close to the camera, just above and to one side. Adjust the power of the flash, and/or the lens f/number until the LCD image looks right. Check the histogram and you should have a nice lump in the middle

If one side is too dark, get a reflector to fill it in. A white card is fine, or even a pillowcase. Hold it close to the subject at 45 degs both to the subject and the flash. You will see the effect from the modelling light. That will give you very good basic portrait lighting Use the other light for adding interest to the background, or as an effect light as and when you've got the main light sorted.

It's tricky as I haven't got the funds for a lighting meter yet as the kit's taken up my budget and I still need a background. I guess it will all come to me sooner or later after a lot of experimenting, I'll have a good crack at it over the weekend.

Do you suggest firing both flashes, or just one?

 

[psenior1]

Ignoring the background light for now how is the lighting on the subject from your main light? If you haven't got a light meter then it will be trial and error, I'd concentrate on using just one light with your octagonal softbox or umbrella to start off with.

There so much more to studio lighting than I expected when I first got my kit, getting it right isn't as easy as I expected and you have to be thinking about what is going on and adjusting the lights/position as you need to, especially if you are shooting subjects that won't stay still. It will take you a while to nail it, for me it was just a case of practice and research

I also use Elemental gear and get results I'm happy with, not used the new G series though - what it the build etc like?

 

[Garry Edwards]

Thanks for these, I'll have a good look later.



It's tricky as I haven't got the funds for a lighting meter yet as the kit's taken up my budget and I still need a background. I guess it will all come to me sooner or later after a lot of experimenting, I'll have a good crack at it over the weekend.

Do you suggest firing both flashes, or just one?

Whatever other opinions you may get, I strongly believe that you should get a flash meter - you can manage without one for now, but I feel it should be your next buy.

Use just one flash for now, after all there is only one sun outdoors. Position the flash wherever it gives a result that you personally feel suits your subject. There are no rules, but it's worth bearing in mind that the light outdoors (and indoors) is normally overhead, so very low light positions aren't ususally the first choice.

If shadows are unacceptably harsh then (and only then) add a reflector, placed to pick up light that has gone past the subject. The reflector will lighten the shadows, and the further the light is from the subject and the closer the reflector is to the subject, the greater the effect will be. If you really feel the need, use the second light at a lower power as a fill. The fill light goes where the camera is, either immediately above or immediately below it or, if it has a large softbox or umbrella attached, it can go behind the camera. Never to one side.

Forget about lighting the background for now. When you light a background it is a separate subject, don't complicate your life by trying to get 2 different subjects lit correctly at the same time. For the same reason, forget about buying a background for now.

 

[Dman]

The reason I'm doing it against the wall like this is that the background I'm getting props up against the wall anyway.

http://www.photodeals.co.uk/product.php?productid=15&cat=7&page=1

The G2 kit seems really good but it's the first time I've ever used lighting like this so I've nothing to compare it to. At the moment the setup is really just the light pointing directly at the subject, with the other light coming slightly side on with the softbox or umbrella. Probably completely inappropriate but like I say it's the first time I've ever used it.

Time to really swot up on lighting techniques I think!

 

[Garry Edwards]

If one side is too dark, get a reflector to fill it in. A white card is fine, or even a pillowcase. Hold it close to the subject at 45 degs both to the subject and the flash. You will see the effect from the modelling light.

Generally good advice, except that you need modelling lamps of at least 150 watts and preferably 250 watts for them to be any use, but I see from the advert that yours are only 50 watts, so you'll need the room to be totally dark for them to indicate anythng at all.

 

[Dman]

Whatever other opinions you may get, I strongly believe that you should get a flash meter - you can manage without one for now, but I feel it should be your next buy.

Use just one flash for now, after all there is only one sun outdoors. Position the flash wherever it gives a result that you personally feel suits your subject. There are no rules, but it's worth bearing in mind that the light outdoors (and indoors) is normally overhead, so very low light positions aren't ususally the first choice.

If shadows are unacceptably harsh then (and only then) add a reflector, placed to pick up light that has gone past the subject. The reflector will lighten the shadows, and the further the light is from the subject and the closer the reflector is to the subject, the greater the effect will be. If you really feel the need, use the second light at a lower power as a fill. The fill light goes where the camera is, either immediately above or immediately below it or, if it has a large softbox or umbrella attached, it can go behind the camera. Never to one side.

Forget about lighting the background for now. When you light a background it is a separate subject, don't complicate your life by trying to get 2 different subjects lit correctly at the same time. For the same reason, forget about buying a background for now.

The background is ordered now, I want to start taking some decent portraits of friends and family and their kids etc that I can take in their home. I guess it doesn't help that the kit never shipped with instructions, so other than light power and flash triggers, I haven't really got a clue what the other dials and switches do, so I'm waiting on them to provide me with some.

How do you normally position a reflector and keep it in place, are there reflector stands you can buy?

 

[Dman]

Generally good advice, except that you need modelling lamps of at least 150 watts and preferably 250 watts for them to be any use, but I see from the advert that yours are only 50 watts, so you'll need the room to be totally dark for them to indicate anythng at all.

My modelling lamps are definitely 150w, says so on the bulb, but the website does say 50w.

 

[ChrisMClark]

I'm with Garry on flash meter, makes life so much easier. You can get a basic Sekonic one for around £120 (L308 I think, it's the on I have) and it's more than adequate.

What helped me was having a 2 hour induction to studio lighting at the hire studio I regularly use; I learnt the basics and enough to start experimenting with my own ideas, but whilst still doing it 'right'.

 

[psenior1]

I've got a Sekonic 308s and it does the job nicely, I did without one for a while but its does make life a lot easier...

As said above, only use th reflector if you need it and just concetrate on nailing it with one light for now.

If you have a prime then stick with that rather than a zoom. set you shutter to 1/125 at f10/11. Set you white balance as near to 5600k as you can and keep the camera settings constant.

Once the wife and kids get bored of posing for test shots tripod and remote release works a treat for test self portraits!

 

[Dman]

I've got a Sekonic 308s and it does the job nicely, it did without one for a while but its does make life a lot easier...

As said above, only use th reflector if you need it and just concetrate on nailing it with one light for now.

If you have a prime then stick with that rather than a zoom. set you shutter to 1/125 at f10/11. Set you white balance as near to 5600k as you can.

I'm only using the 50mm at the moment, ISO100, f/10-f/11 at about 1/200 shutter speed. White balance I leave on auto as I shoot RAW anyway.

I didn't bring my card into work, I'll be having another play around tonight so I can upload pics to show any problems I'm still having. Will also look for a second hand light meter, does it have to have any specific modes or functions for it to be considered a decent one?

I've got the OneLight DVD as well so I'll be watching that over the weekend and guessing it may help me out.

Wow, who thought shooting a portrait would be so complicated?!

 

[Garry Edwards]

I'm only using the 50mm at the moment, ISO100, f/10-f/11 at about 1/200 shutter speed. White balance I leave on auto as I shoot RAW anyway.

Do NOT leave your white balance on auto. The camera can't adjust to suit the colour of the flash and will adjust to suit the colour of the modelling lamp and/or the colour of whatever other continuous light is present, which will be totally wrong. Either set it to custom white balance or to around 5600K.

And although it's fine to shoot in raw for your 'real' shots, my advice is to shoot in jpeg whenever you're practicing, so that the clever raw processor doesn't hide your mistakes

 

[psenior1]

I'm only using the 50mm at the moment, ISO100, f/10-f/11 at about 1/200 shutter speed. White balance I leave on auto as I shoot RAW anyway.

I didn't bring my card into work, I'll be having another play around tonight so I can upload pics to show any problems I'm still having. Will also look for a second hand light meter, does it have to have any specific modes or functions for it to be considered a decent one?

I've got the OneLight DVD as well so I'll be watching that over the weekend and guessing it may help me out.

Wow, who thought shooting a portrait would be so complicated?!

I would still set your WB to match you studio strobes, get as much right in camera as you can.

Your shutter speed is a little high, I'd drop it to 1/100 or 1/125 - camera shutter speed is irrelevant unless there is loads of ambient light in the room, its actually determined by the sync speed of the strobes. If you have the shutter speed to fast then you will eventually get a portion of the frame coming out dark...

I really would try and pick up a 308's, it does ambient and flash so will come in handy if you start doing outdoor shoots too.

 

[Dman]

Do NOT leave your white balance on auto. The camera can't adjust to suit the colour of the flash and will adjust to suit the colour of the modelling lamp and/or the colour of whatever other continuous light is present, which will be totally wrong. Either set it to custom white balance or to around 5600K.

Not sure how to do this on my D60 so will look in the manual.

Edit: Just had a look, it appears the flash WB setting is measured at 5400k, would this be adequate?

To do a custom reading would I need a grey card?

 

[Garry Edwards]

Your shutter speed is a little high, I'd drop it to 1/100 or 1/125 - camera shutter speed is irrelevant unless there is loads of ambient light in the room, its actually determined by the sync speed of the strobes. If you have the shutter speed to fast then you will eventually get a portion of the frame coming out dark...

Especially if you're using a radio trigger, which inevitably has a delay.

 

[Merovingian]

but I cannot for the life of me get a decent shot. Being completely new to lighting

I'm taking bookings as of early September, gives me a chance to get all the kit and get to grips with the lighting

Hmmm - [singing voice] There may-be troub-le ah-ead....

Leaning the art of lighting in a month! - let us know the secret!

 

[Dman]

Hmmm - [singing voice] There may-be troub-le ah-ead....

Leaning the art of lighting in a month! - let us know the secret!

Indeed. Needless to say this has completely changed now!

 

[HoppyUK]

Especially if you're using a radio trigger, which inevitably has a delay.

How do radio triggers introduce delay?

Dman, this is getting over complicated when it really shouldn't be. If you do what I said in post #3 you will get perfectly good portraits.

Set your shutter speed to 1/200sec, which is the max x-sync speed on a D60. This is the speed intended for flash with your camera. There is no reason to use any other shutter speed and this will minimise any potential interference from the ambient light.

Auto white balance will probably be okay in practise, but if it looks a bit off, set it manually either to Flash, to Sun, or to 5600K (which is your flash colour temperature) or do a custom white balance. All of these settings will give a virtually identical result.

Only use one light, with a reflector if necessary, which will save a lot of confusion. It's very hard to get conflicting shadows with a reflector as it can never be more powerful than the main light and saves you from having to balance up two lights.

Leave lighting the background alone for now, and don't try any extra effect lights until you have nailed the main light.

A flash meter is very handy when balancing up multiple lights, but with one light you really don't need one.

Focus on the eyes, or if you are very close and depth of field is shallow, focus on the nearest eye.

Post some pics

 

[Dman]

How do radio triggers introduce delay?

Dman, this is getting over complicated when it really shouldn't be. If you do what I said in post #3 you will get perfectly good portraits.

Set your shutter speed to 1/200sec, which is the max x-sync speed on a D60. This is the speed intended for flash with your camera. There is no reason to use any other shutter speed and this will minimise any potential interference from the ambient light.

Auto white balance will probably be okay in practise, but if it looks a bit off, set it manually either to Flash, to Sun, or to 5600K (which is your flash colour temperature) or do a custom white balance. All of these settings will give a virtually identical result.

Only use one light, with a reflector if necessary, which will save a lot of confusion. It's very hard to get conflicting shadows with a reflector as it can never be more powerful than the main light and saves you from having to balance up two lights.

Leave lighting the background alone for now, and don't try any extra effect lights until you have nailed the main light.

A flash meter is very handy when balancing up multiple lights, but with one light you really don't need one.

Focus on the eyes, or if you are very close and depth of field is shallow, focus on the nearest eye.

Post some pics

Thank you! Some great advice on here but I must admit it's been making my head spin

Going to go home this afternoon and try some bits out, will try custom white balances etc to see if that helps, but will leave the umbrella and softbox alone for the time being and just try to nail a decent shot of the kids. Will post some up later today. Once I get to grips with getting a decent shot, I'll start looking into the use of softboxes etc.

Cheers!

 

[Garry Edwards]

How do radio triggers introduce delay?

Dman, this is getting over complicated when it really shouldn't be. If you do what I said in post #3 you will get perfectly good portraits.

Set your shutter speed to 1/200sec, which is the max x-sync speed on a D60. This is the speed intended for flash with your camera. There is no reason to use any other shutter speed and this will minimise any potential interference from the ambient light.

Auto white balance will probably be okay in practise, but if it looks a bit off, set it manually either to Flash, to Sun, or to 5600K (which is your flash colour temperature) or do a custom white balance. All of these settings will give a virtually identical result.

Only use one light, with a reflector if necessary, which will save a lot of confusion. It's very hard to get conflicting shadows with a reflector as it can never be more powerful than the main light and saves you from having to balance up two lights.

Leave lighting the background alone for now, and don't try any extra effect lights until you have nailed the main light.

A flash meter is very handy when balancing up multiple lights, but with one light you really don't need one.

Focus on the eyes, or if you are very close and depth of field is shallow, focus on the nearest eye.

Post some pics

Sorry, but I can't agree with most of this. Radio triggers cause a delay which, in effect, reduces the max shutter speed that can be used. Please see this article.

Auto white balance will probably be okay in practise,

No it won't. It can't be. The fact that the Elinchrom video says otherwise doesn't change the reality.

Only use one light, with a reflector if necessary, which will save a lot of confusion. It's very hard to get conflicting shadows with a reflector as it can never be more powerful than the main light and saves you from having to balance up two lights.

Leave lighting the background alone for now, and don't try any extra effect lights until you have nailed the main light.

A flash meter is very handy when balancing up multiple lights, but with one light you really don't need one.

Focus on the eyes, or if you are very close and depth of field is shallow, focus on the nearest eye.

Agreed

Set your shutter speed to 1/200sec, which is the max x-sync speed on a

D60. This is the speed intended for flash with your camera. There is no reason to use any other shutter speed and this will minimise any potential interference from the ambient light.

Set the camer to 1/125th, Virtually the same result but much safer.

 

[HoppyUK]

Thank you! Some great advice on here but I must admit it's been making my head spin

Going to go home this afternoon and try some bits out, will try custom white balances etc to see if that helps, but will leave the umbrella and softbox alone for the time being and just try to nail a decent shot of the kids. Will post some up later today. Once I get to grips with getting a decent shot, I'll start looking into the use of softboxes etc.

Cheers!

Don't do that! See post #3. The whole point of using the power that studio flash gives you is to be able to illuminate a big light source properly, eg an umbrella or softbox.

Use one of them! They will give you the soft shadows that suit almost all normal portrait subjects.

 

[Dman]

These are ultimately the sort of thing I'm looking to achieve, pics just pulled from a google search.

http://fotosa.ru/stock_photo/Westend61_RF/p_1695005.jpg

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/logos/logos0903/logos090302235/4553960.jpg

 

[HoppyUK]

Sorry, but I can't agree with most of this.

That's okay, but maybe the OP should note that this is quite a way off topic now

Radio triggers cause a delay which, in effect, reduces the max shutter speed that can be used. Please see this article.

I don't accept that, nor do I believe that link. To say that radio triggers can cause up 1/30sec delay, as they do on the link, is patent rubbish. The latest equipment triggers instantly, or at least as fast as electrincal pulses can move. Speed of light? Anyway, the new Pocket Wizards are so slick that they can even increase the x-sync speed with their HyperSync feature. They can push normal x-sync up to 1/400sec and sometimes higher. (No, I didn't believe it either, but it makes interesting reading about half way down this link http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-9884-9903-9906 )

No it won't. It can't be. The fact that the Elinchrom video says otherwise doesn't change the reality.

You're referring to auto white balance being unsuitable for flash. Why should it be any different to AWB for daylight? Sure it is subject to the same variables as ambient light but I see no reason for it to be inherantly miles out just because you're using flash. I have done it by accident before, used AWB that is, and then switched it over when I spotted it - made no discernable difference.

If you have a dedicated flash connection, the camera will automatically go to flash white balance anyway, but I suspect this might not be the case here. Depends how the sync is connected I guess, and how Nikons work in that situation.

Agreed

HoppyUK said: "Set your shutter speed to 1/200sec, which is the max x-sync speed."

Set the camer to 1/125th, Virtually the same result but much safer.

There is no need for a safety margin with modern cameras - they sync reliably at the highest designated speed. I used to be cautious years ago, when the x-sync marked was an ambition rather than a reality, but I've never heard of any problems with a DSLR. And that Pocket Wizard link suggests there is even scope to go higher, if you buy their product of course LOL.

 

[HoppyUK]

These are ultimately the sort of thing I'm looking to achieve, pics just pulled from a google search.

http://fotosa.ru/stock_photo/Westend61_RF/p_1695005.jpg

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/logos/logos0903/logos090302235/4553960.jpg

Bud, that first pic is eazee-peezee

Look in her eye - that's the reflection a softbox. I'll put money on it. Just the one light used here, maybe with a reflector on the right.

Second pic has got another light on the background so that it has blown out to pure white all over. That is easy too, so long as you get the exposure balance just right. Not hard, but first things first.

Get that softbox on, right next to the camera - just a bit above and to one side. You'll be smiling later

 

[psenior1]

How do radio triggers introduce delay?

Dman, this is getting over complicated when it really shouldn't be. If you do what I said in post #3 you will get perfectly good portraits.

Set your shutter speed to 1/200sec, which is the max x-sync speed on a D60. This is the speed intended for flash with your camera. There is no reason to use any other shutter speed and this will minimise any potential interference from the ambient light.

Auto white balance will probably be okay in practise, but if it looks a bit off, set it manually either to Flash, to Sun, or to 5600K (which is your flash colour temperature) or do a custom white balance. All of these settings will give a virtually identical result.


Post some pics

Sorry but I disagree with the above - you might 'get away with it' with these settings but why not just use the safer (and recommended) settings in the first place and only adjust if necessary.

With the lights Dman has, using the radio triggers, 1/200th is too fast. Set the WB to match your strobes, its one less thing to worry about later!

 

[HoppyUK]

Sorry but I disagree with the above - you might 'get away with it' with these settings but why not just use the safer (and recommended) settings in the first place and only adjust if necessary.

With the lights Dman has, using the radio triggers, 1/200th is too fast. Set the WB to match your strobes, its one less thing to worry about later!

Recommended by whom? Nikon says electronic flash will sync at up to 1/200sec on the D60. That's good enough for me.

Can you link to an image which has been spoiled by some alleged delay using a radio trigger?

I agree that setting white balnce for flash is prudent, but not that it will automatically be miles out if you leave it on AWB.

Did you see my previous post?

 

[psenior1]

These are ultimately the sort of thing I'm looking to achieve, pics just pulled from a google search.

http://fotosa.ru/stock_photo/Westend61_RF/p_1695005.jpg

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/logos/logos0903/logos090302235/4553960.jpg

First pic looks pretty straightforward, as Hoppy says.

Second is not so easy, its hard to tell from that picture but the lack of shadows from the arms and on the faces suggests to me that its being lit with a main and a fill at least...

 

[psenior1]

Recommended by whom? Nikon says electronic flash will sync at up to 1/200sec on the D60. That's good enough for me.

Can you link to an image which has been spoiled by some alleged delay using a radio trigger?

I agree that setting white balnce for flash is prudent, but not that it will automatically be miles out if you leave it on AWB.

Did you see my previous post?

OK - I'm not going to argue, let DMAN choose whatever shutter speed he chooses.

I'm just speaking from experience, I learnt the hard way when I first got my strobes. Interestingly not every image would come out partly dark, just one in every few - I'm not going to go hunting for examples as I think this is a daft discusion, but not as daft as the one about AWB!

 

[paul_g]

Is flash sync speed with studio flash the same as with speedlites?
According to the manual for my 1d mkIII it says that the sync speed with speedlites is 1/300 but with large studio flash its 1/60.
I use mine on 1/125 virtually all the time with no problems so I'm just curious really.

 

[Garry Edwards]

That's okay, but maybe the OP should note that this is quite a way off topic now



I don't accept that, nor do I believe that link. To say that radio triggers can cause up 1/30sec delay, as they do on the link, is patent rubbish. The latest equipment triggers instantly, or at least as fast as electrincal pulses can move. Speed of light? Anyway, the new Pocket Wizards are so slick that they can even increase the x-sync speed with their HyperSync feature. They can push normal x-sync up to 1/400sec and sometimes higher. (No, I didn't believe it either, but it makes interesting reading about half way down this link http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-9884-9903-9906 )



You're referring to auto white balance being unsuitable for flash. Why should it be any different to AWB for daylight? Sure it is subject to the same variables as ambient light but I see no reason for it to be inherantly miles out just because you're using flash. I have done it by accident before, used AWB that is, and then switched it over when I spotted it - made no discernable difference.

If you have a dedicated flash connection, the camera will automatically go to flash white balance anyway, but I suspect this might not be the case here. Depends how the sync is connected I guess, and how Nikons work in that situation.







There is no need for a safety margin with modern cameras - they sync reliably at the highest designated speed. I used to be cautious years ago, when the x-sync marked was an ambition rather than a reality, but I've never heard of any problems with a DSLR. And that Pocket Wizard link suggests there is even scope to go higher, if you buy their product of course LOL.

I don't want to take this thread off topic and I don't want to squabble with you (or anyone else) but I do have reasons for saying the things I do.

I don't accept that, nor do I believe that link. To say that radio triggers can cause up 1/30sec delay, as they do on the link, is patent rubbish. The latest equipment triggers instantly, or at least as fast as electrincal pulses can move. Speed of light? Anyway, the new Pocket Wizards are so slick that they can even increase the x-sync speed with their HyperSync feature. They can push normal x-sync up to 1/400sec and sometimes higher. (No, I didn't believe it either, but it makes interesting reading about half way down this link http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-9884-9903-9906 )

Pocket Wizards are very clever, I don't know whether their claims are correct or not but I do accept that they are much better than most - but the OP isn't likely to be using them is he? His kit is very much on the basic side, and I think it very likely that he will be using very basic radio triggers to go with it, that's why I advise a slower shutter speed. There is actually an extremely long delay with some radio triggers. Some of the ones sold on Ebay won't work at speeds faster than 1/30th. That's a fact.

You're referring to auto white balance being unsuitable for flash. Why should it be any different to AWB for daylight? Sure it is subject to the same variables as ambient light but I see no reason for it to be inherantly miles out just because you're using flash.

It's different for the reasons I've already given. Auto white balance is a computer function controlled by the camera. The camera can't measure the colour temperature of the flash, it can only measure the colour temperature of the ambient light, and the colour temperature of the modelling lamps is typically around 2700K in reality (claimed temperature us usually around 3200K) which is VERY different from flash, typically 5600K.

If you have a dedicated flash connection, the camera will automatically go to flash white balance anyway, but I suspect this might not be the case here. Depends how the sync is connected I guess, and how Nikons work in that situation.

Not with studio flash

There is no need for a safety margin with modern cameras - they sync reliably at the highest designated speed.

They do with the pop up flashgun and they do with the manufacturer's own hotshoe flashgun. Not with studio flash.

Don't take my word for it, test it for yourself.

 

[HoppyUK]

OK - I'm not going to argue, let DMAN choose whatever shutter speed he chooses.

I'm just speaking from experience, I learnt the hard way when I first got my strobes. Interestingly not every image would come out partly dark, just one in every few - I'm not going to go hunting for examples as I think this is a daft discusion, but not as daft as the one about AWB!

TBH, it might not be daft but it's certainly moot. I suspect that when you were having x-sync problems it was with an older film camera, not a recent DSLR. The fact that the OP's camera is crop format is another factor in favour of a higher x-sync speed being okay, as the shutter only has to travel half the distance.

Is flash sync speed with studio flash the same as with speedlites?
According to the manual for my 1d mkIII it says that the sync speed with speedlites is 1/300 but with large studio flash its 1/60.
I use mine on 1/125 virtually all the time with no problems so I'm just curious really.

The reason for this is that the flash duration of some old studio electronic units was quite long. I've read as long as 1/300sec on full power (many years ago) so this is the minimum time the shutter must stay fully open for in order to get the full flash exposure. This needs a longer x-sync speed to guranatee it.

Modern units are much faster and although I don't know what the OP's flash duration is, the longest I am aware of these days is around 1/800sec at full power (and usually much shorter). Hot shoe guns rarely dip below 1/1000sec and often go down to 1/40,000sec. Hence no problem at 1/200sec. Short flash duration is a feature that manufacturers strive for as it allows you to freeze action in 'Venture style' portraits.

 

[paul_g]

I'll have a play and see what happens at 1/300, again just out of curiosity

 

[Dman]

Right, I've had a play and although still far from perfect, I'm getting MUCH better results than I was getting yesterday just from simply using the one lamp with softbox high and right next to the camera as Hoppy suggested. I took a custom white balance reading from the wall with the light reflected on it, is that correct or do I need to try another method?

However, some of these shots though have come out a lot darker than others as you can see from the examples below.

All of these are completely untouched straight out of the camera, taken at 1/125. Ignore the focus as these were very quick shots taken with manual focus as I had to get these done quickly, I was more interested in the light being right. The lamp was also on full power.

f/10

f/8

f/10

f/11

f/11

So, I will have a white background and I want to try and avoid shadows at all costs. However, the background I'm getting is one that stands up against the wall, so light from behind isn't going to be an option. Any ideas what to do with the second light to try and avoid the shadows and keep the lighting nice and bright? Should I go a bit wider on the aperture when they come out like the darker ones above? The better one seems to be at f/8.

Thanks for all your help so far.

 

[HoppyUK]

I don't want to take this thread off topic and I don't want to squabble with you (or anyone else) but I do have reasons for saying the things I do.

Pocket Wizards are very clever, I don't know whether their claims are correct or not but I do accept that they are much better than most - but the OP isn't likely to be using them is he? His kit is very much on the basic side, and I think it very likely that he will be using very basic radio triggers to go with it, that's why I advise a slower shutter speed. There is actually an extremely long delay with some radio triggers. Some of the ones sold on Ebay won't work at speeds faster than 1/30th. That's a fact.


It's different for the reasons I've already given. Auto white balance is a computer function controlled by the camera. The camera can't measure the colour temperature of the flash, it can only measure the colour temperature of the ambient light, and the colour temperature of the modelling lamps is typically around 2700K in reality (claimed temperature us usually around 3200K) which is VERY different from flash, typically 5600K.


Not with studio flash


They do with the pop up flashgun and they do with the manufacturer's own hotshoe flashgun. Not with studio flash.

Don't take my word for it, test it for yourself.

You are quite right on the Auto White Balance in this case. I'm so sorry. Please accept my apologies on this, to you and also to psenior. I was thinking about E-TTL operation and got confused.

Yes, of course the camera will read the ambient light which will be largely tungsten in this case, and the image will come out with a cast as a JPEG

 

[psenior1]

first things first, your little boy is far to close to the wall.

As said earlier, pick an aperture and shutter speed and stick with it, changing it will just confuse things.

How far away is the light? on full power these should be way over exposed. Even with my old B series elemental lights 50% on the main light was enough.

Are you using the radio triggers or relying on the on board flash firing the optical sensors?

 

[HoppyUK]

Right, I've had a play and although still far from perfect, I'm getting MUCH better results than I was getting yesterday just from simply using the one lamp with softbox high and right next to the camera as Hoppy suggested. I took a custom white balance reading from the wall with the light reflected on it, is that correct or do I need to try another method?

However, some of these shots though have come out a lot darker than others as you can see from the examples below.

All of these are completely untouched straight out of the camera, taken at 1/125. Ignore the focus as these were very quick shots taken with manual focus as I had to get these done quickly, I was more interested in the light being right. The lamp was also on full power.

So, I will have a white background and I want to try and avoid shadows at all costs. However, the background I'm getting is one that stands up against the wall, so light from behind isn't going to be an option. Any ideas what to do with the second light to try and avoid the shadows and keep the lighting nice and bright? Should I go a bit wider on the aperture when they come out like the darker ones above? The better one seems to be at f/8.

Thanks for all your help so far.

Hooray! Some results. Some comments.

Move the softbox down, not high up. Just above and to the right of the camera, as mentioned previously.

Use a longer focal length or move closer. Turn the camera upright and try to fill the frame better. Careful focus on the eyes.

Exposure is all over the place, generally too low. I wonder if the flash is having enough time to recycle fully and is going off at half power? Give it a moment or two. Get the exposure right on the LCD and histogram and leave it there on Manual.

Move the lad away from the wall to get rid of the shadow. Black tops often look, well, too dark!

Colour doesn't look too far out, but what colour is the wall you're taking a custom white balance off? It must be a neutral colour - either white or plain grey (not cream or magnolia!). Use a piece of white paper if you're not sure.

The backrgound will inevitably be darker than the subject, even if it's plain white, as it's further from the flash. To get guarantee pure white, you will need a second light on it and adjust the exposure so that it is just a fraction brighter than the main light - half a stop is a good target to aim for.

This is when you need a flash meter but in the meantime, if you want to try it, once you have established the exposure for the main light, shoot a series of pictures while you adjust the power of the background light. Keep turning it up/down until you can just detect some tone in it, but only just. Then turn the flash up one notch to just blow it out to clean white. If you check the histogram, you will see the white area butted up at the extreme right hand end. If you have flash over exposure warning enabled - blinkies - (good idea) the background will flash on the LCD. You're there, but don't overdo the background light, don't blast it - it should be only just clean white. If it's too bright, it will start to eat away at the edges of the main subject and not look so good. Only just enough to make it go white, and no more.

When you have done this, you will quite likely find that the overal exposure has gone up a bit as it's picking up extra light being bounced around the room off the background light. Just increase the f/number by a fraction so it is just right. Again, be guided by the LCD and histogram.

I told you that adding a second light will complicate things but one step at a time and you'll get there.

 

[Dman]

Right, another go with the softbox slightly down and my son slightly away from the wall, although I'm running out of space!

1/125 still, flash about 3/4 power (sorry, got my dials confused earlier and was on less than half, not full power!) . Had to use f/7.1 for these but much better than before in my opinion. Took the WB off a bit of white card as well, which didn't work first time round.