Tipping

[JohnC6]

I wouldn't have bothered making a post about this but the New York waitress,Madison Tayt, was really angry, via her Twitter account, with a group of Spanish diners in a restaurant who left a 10% tip...ie $70 on a $700 bill. It's gone viral. I just wondered if anyone thought 20% is too much. ? Maybe, why should we tip atall.? I mean tip anyone anyone ? Can we be sure the waiter/waitress (here in the UK) actually gets to keep what he/she is given. I think here, they, generally, pool the tips which are shared with the kitchen staff. When I was in the US on one of my trips I gave the server..a young lady paying her way through college....quite a decent tip at which one of the Americans in our group told me that it was too much and I should take some back. I ascertained first, that she would get to keep that tip for herself and she did. The look on her face was worth it. It must be hard studying during the day and working late at night and she did it with a smile. It was about 11.00pm when we left.

The NY server told the manager about this $70 tip and he went to the group and asked if they were happy with the meal and service.."Over the moon" they said,so he told them that the normal tip is 20%. They just said, "Ok" ..and left. That's a $140 tip the were expected to pay . I usually give 10-12 % here and I find a tip of $140 rather a lot.

I've actually found an article about it that has a photo of the waitress. who said ..."I f**** hate Europeans sometimes.We need to ban Europerans from travelling here until they learn how to act " One person on Twitter posted that he agreed with her and that Europeans were " basically, the worst customers" That prompted a discussion on whether Spain is a country of bad tippers or that it was really about America's culture of paying low wages. My take is why should customers subsidise the boss or company ? Tax has to be paid on those tips,too. In US they call them 'servers' and they are generally most times paid a few dollars an hour with management knowing they'll get 20% tips...as long as they're not Europeans,of course...

She hadn't mentioned the nationalty of the diners but I read in another source that they were Spanish. Also, she said that an American was with them and he should have told them. She added that mnay servers were reluctant to serve European tourists in general.

I’m an NYC waitress — I ‘f – – king hate’ 10% tips from tourists

Here’s a tip: don’t mess with this sassy server.

nypost.com

A copy/paste re server's wages

In the US, the federal tipped minimum wage is currently $2.13 per hour, though some states have higher rates. So, how does the federal government insure that tipped employees throughout the country don’t receive a sub-minimum wage? Well, they require the employer (a la restaurant owner) of a tipped worker to make up the difference in pay if the workers’ tips combined with the federal tipped minimum are less than the federal minimum wage. Currently the federal minimum wage if $7.25 per hour. As tipped workers receive most of their tips in cash, employers must declare a portion of these tips to the federal government through their payroll. This system of tipped workers getting paid a cash wage that is lower than the minimum wage is also referred to as a tip credit.

In this country a law is being brought in to ensure staff get their tips because where a service charge was included on the bill (in which case I don't tip) some/many owners were keeping it. It some cases the serving staff had to hand over their tips to the boss. Sometimes, tips are pooled with kitchen staff. The Bill has has gone through its 3rd Reading but won't become law until ,at least, autumn of this year so ..in the meantime

 

[AshleyC]

I'll tip 10% and that's it to a max of a fiver. The waiter/waitress simply delivers a plate of food. Wether it's a sandwich or a plate of wagyu beef. They're still just putting a plate of food on my table. So why pay more based on value of food.

 

[JonathanRyan]

I've seen some of the fall out from this story. Most "Europeans" seem to side with the diner - it's the employer's obligation to pay their staff a living wage. If that causes higher prices then so be it.

I always tip for good service but I would find 20% extraordinary. In London at the weekend I got charged > £12 for 3 coffees and didn't tip because they added an extra service charge on top.

the federal tipped minimum wage is currently $2.13 per hour, though some states have higher rates. ... Currently the federal minimum wage if $7.25 per hour.

As a reminder, the UK minimum wage for 18 - 20 year olds is currently the equivalent of $8.42. It goes up to $9.23 next week and is much higher for older staff. Even apprentices will get more than federal minimum from next week.

Service staff have a hard enough job - don't make them beg for money to live.

 

[Nod]

I usually deduct and service charge added to a bill automatically but leave a cash tip. Most of the time, the automatic one is shared throughout the whole chain of outlets and also gets taxed while a cash one gets shared locally. That's here in the UK. On holiday, it's usually the coins from the change for coffee but for a meal out, 10% or more depending on how good the food and service were. Never been to the States but I understand that 20% is the norm.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I'm ambiguous about this subject.

On the whole, I'd prefer to see the practice of "tips" being outlawed and the management of all premises required to pay a national living wage. Staff who serve (and also the staff who prepare it) are deserving of a fair remuneration for their work, as is anyone who does work for others.

In any case, there are plenty of nice places to eat, where no tip is expected...

 

[Box Brownie]

IMO tipping should be discretionary not obligatory.....

If I/we have been treated well by the waitron then a10% tip is a thank you for the dining experience being enhanced by the service. Though of note we have been in some places where they operate a tips pot @ the till and AFAIK means the kitchen staff also see some reward.

Having said that, tipping as embedded in any industry is akin to sales jobs that are 'commission only'.

Many years ago when I was looking to change jobs.....I had an interview at short notice (via an agency) where I was not aware that it was commission only. When I was told about this I explained that such a role was not for me. He asked (in a passive aggressive manner) didn't I think my sales skills were up to the job? My reply was if he was going to value my contribution to his company growth he would be paying a proper basic salary to show his confidence in me!

 

[AMcUK]

You need to align how you tip to where you are. In the USA their work culture means you really need to tip the waiting staff. Going there and not tipping because you don't at home is a bit of cultural arrogance that will make you deeply unpopular. I think their system stinks but I'm not a resident let alone a voting citizen so add the tip to the menu when you order or don't go in.

In Japan you really don't tip and it can be considered insulting to try, same is true in many European countries where they have proper labour laws and respect for employees with living wages.

In the UK my daughter has worked in restaurants and pubs and the behaviour has been extraordinary. A table of 12 who monopolised two members of staff for 3 hours who left under £10 on a bill of several hundred pounds, a bloke who bought a pint and fish and chips for £12 and left £5 in cash. A table for 2 who eat every Friday night and always leave over £30 for the staff.

If a chain has added service I find out if the staff are getting it and top it up if needed, If they don't then I take it off and tip in cash.
I also check if card tips are seen by the staff and if not, it's cash.

Hospitality is hard work and minimum wage is not a lot of money, I can afford to eat out regularly and I can afford to tip at least 10% when I do. Stiffing the lowest paid workers in the business is really cheap. The reward for tipping properly may not be felt on every trip but it is appreciated by the people doing the work and sometimes means you'll get a table when the place is busy if you're regular.

If you don't want to tip there's always McDonalds.which is also a "restaurant".

 

[Sky]

In all my worldly travels (a lot) I'll always follow what the locals do (and expect) and tip or not according to custom.

In the UK, I won't pay a service charge or tip if it's included in the bill as I know in most cases, the staff won't see a penny of it. I'll only tip the person who serves me in cash and occasionally I'll do the same for the chef.

 

[munch]

You need to align how you tip to where you are. In the USA their work culture means you really need to tip the waiting staff. Going there and not tipping because you don't at home is a bit of cultural arrogance that will make you deeply unpopular. I think their system stinks but I'm not a resident let alone a voting citizen so add the tip to the menu when you order or don't go in.

In Japan you really don't tip and it can be considered insulting to try, same is true in many European countries where they have proper labour laws and respect for employees with living wages.

In the UK my daughter has worked in restaurants and pubs and the behaviour has been extraordinary. A table of 12 who monopolised two members of staff for 3 hours who left under £10 on a bill of several hundred pounds, a bloke who bought a pint and fish and chips for £12 and left £5 in cash. A table for 2 who eat every Friday night and always leave over £30 for the staff.

If a chain has added service I find out if the staff are getting it and top it up if needed, If they don't then I take it off and tip in cash.
I also check if card tips are seen by the staff and if not, it's cash.

Hospitality is hard work and minimum wage is not a lot of money, I can afford to eat out regularly and I can afford to tip at least 10% when I do. Stiffing the lowest paid workers in the business is really cheap. The reward for tipping properly may not be felt on every trip but it is appreciated by the people doing the work and sometimes means you'll get a table when the place is busy if you're regular.

If you don't want to tip there's always McDonalds.which is also a "restaurant".

Your post comes across as being bit of arrogant. I do not often tip and certainly not 10% does that mean I should only eat at McDonald's?

 

[JonathanRyan]

In all my worldly travels (a lot) I'll always follow what the locals do (and expect) and tip or not according to custom.

Well quite.

But I'm shocked to learn that 20% is now a "basic" tip in the US. It's an increasingly odd country.

 

[woof woof]

I think a tip of 20% is very nice if you can afford it but to expect 20% from all your customers is IMO just too much to expect and IMO it's wrong to go on media and whinge about a measly $70 tip. I always tip but I think expecting 20% from everyone is unrealistic as you're bound to have instances in which the relatively poor are tipping the relatively well off. Not everyone gets to eat out reguarly and not everyone has a large holiday budget and these things may be a special occasion treat and a financial struggle and it's not impossible to imagine the staff earning more than the customers from tips alone.

I don't think tipping should be banned as there are times when people want to show appreciation for a good product or service but to believe you're entitled to it to the point of whinging on social media when you don't get 20% just seems like entitlement to me, and we don't know what quality of service she gave. I do know that in the UK customer service is on occasion grudgingly provided by people who seem to not give a flying what they're doing or how good a service customers are getting but no matter what, great service or poor, the decision to tip or not and how much should be down to the customer and based on the service provided and how much the customer can afford not an entitlement to a set % no matter what.

I don't know what percentage of places require staff to put tips in a jar for equal measures to be given out later or if any places skim off tips. I have asked if staff get to keep the tips and I can't remember ever hearing "No." I've deffo been to places where a refund would seem more appropriate than a tip but thankfully that's not the norm so I can tip in most cases. One thing I do try and do sometimes is find people who might be slightly out of loop as they may not be customer facing and tip them too. I've had great reactions from cleaners and gardeners and the like who by their reactions I'd guess don't usually get tips.

 

[ancient_mariner]

As said, tipping culture varies across the world. US employment can be very harsh, but the waitress apparently also failed to understand that America is not the only country.

I see 10% as the norm for the UK, and would only tip less for bad service. If it's included in the bill I would not normally ask about who gets it, but may investigate further from now on.

 

[JohnC6]

As said, tipping culture varies across the world. US employment can be very harsh, but the waitress apparently also failed to understand that America is not the only country.

I see 10% as the norm for the UK, and would only tip less for bad service. If it's included in the bill I would not normally ask about who gets it, but may investigate further from now on.

If I/we got bad service,Toni, there'd be no tip not less than it would have been had it been good. I can only recall a couple of occasions when we haven't tipped and on one I recall my wife saying "We're not leaving a tip"..If my wife says we're not leaving a tip, then we're not leaving a tip..

I've seen 12- 15% on some menus where a 'service charge' is included. I agree with JR (above) 20% is high.

 

[ancient_mariner]

If I/we got bad service,Toni, there'd be no tip not less than it would have been had it been good.

I should have been more specific - that's what we do too. We had an experience last year where not only were we ignored, but the manager then decided to argue with us about it.

 

[Cagey75]

Remove European customers as she wishes, see how well tipped she is by US only in that case. I think she'd soon be back crying online for the EU lot to return! I've been to NYC, I found many of the staff in cafe/restaurants there to be a bit rude tbh, and barely worth a tip [I always tip! no matter where I am, but if there's already a charge for service then I am in no way giving 20% ... especially if the meal was not up to standard per price - rarely are!}

We just returned from a short trip to Budapest, Hungary - prices there were quite steep in the area we stayed [smack bang in the centre of the city, proper tourist trap] But the staff in general were helpful, friendly and some went out of their way to plase - so I did tip decently, and they were very grateful. On average I would say I gave 10% on top of that service charge, and I did so in cash on side direct to the waiter/ess who served us.

 

[Dave Canon]

I was in Ottawa on one occasion and the restaurant was the usual steak salads and fries. Our organiser checked the bill and paid and he was experience as he lived in the USA at that time. As he was leaving a group of waiters blocked his path remonstrating that the tip was only 11% not 15%. He stood his ground and told them that had we been in the UK not only would there have been no tip but nor would he have paid the entire bill. Several of us moved back to show our support. They still seemed angry so he suggested that they get out of the way or call the police before he did so. Given that we were guests of the Canadian Government, I suspect calling the police would have been a bad move for the restaurant.

I hate the idea of tips and much prefer the European way. In places like Italy there are no tips and never found a problem in Switzerland or Austria. It is somewhat mixed in the UK but we should resist and insist that Waiters are properly paid.

Dave

 

[AMcUK]

Your post comes across as being bit of arrogant. I do not often tip and certainly not 10% does that mean I should only eat at McDonald's?

What is the minimum wage - National Minimum Wage - Acas

What the current National Minimum Wage and National Living Wage rates are. What someone can do if they're being underpaid.

www.acas.org.uk

Current rates (from 1 April 2022)
Age 23 or over (National Living Wage) £9.50
Age 21 to 22 £9.18
Age 18 to 20 £6.83
Under 18 £4.81

A 16yr old waiter is making under £5 an hour, usually covering >20 covers at once.
A main in the pubs around here goes for >£12 a head, a pint is >£3.50 so a lunch bill of >£31 adding £3.10 to that means nothing at all to me so I would consider it a minimum.

 

[AMcUK]

Tipping varies by country and you need to respect that when you're a stranger in a strange land.
A friend recently returned from a ski trip in Canada where he discovered that the waiters were guaranteed minimum wage BUT tips were deducted from that - so in order to make more than minimum wage you had to gather the full value of the hour at minimum wage + more money. Which I think it's fair to say STINKS.
Unsurprisingly there was an expectation that customers would tip more than we are used to in the UK just for basic service.
As it's normal there then that's what people did.

 

[munch]

What is the minimum wage - National Minimum Wage - Acas

What the current National Minimum Wage and National Living Wage rates are. What someone can do if they're being underpaid.

www.acas.org.uk

Current rates (from 1 April 2022)
Age 23 or over (National Living Wage) £9.50
Age 21 to 22 £9.18
Age 18 to 20 £6.83
Under 18 £4.81

A 16yr old waiter is making under £5 an hour, usually covering >20 covers at once.
A main in the pubs around here goes for >£12 a head, a pint is >£3.50 so a lunch bill of >£31 adding £3.10 to that means nothing at all to me so I would consider it a minimum.

Your figures are assumptions, not all waitering staff are on minimum wage. Not all of us when we do go out pay £31 for a meal. If your meal costs you that then fine, but don't imply that if others are not prepared to tip they should eat at McDonalds.

Tipping is a personal thing. If it give you a warm feeling all well and good, but unless you know where that money is going or who it is going to, then to me I see no reason to just tip one part of the "eating out experience"

 

[Nod]

If in doubt as to where the tips go, ask one of the serving staff.

 

[AMcUK]

Your figures are assumptions, not all waitering staff are on minimum wage.

Not assumption, experience.
My daughter has worked in 2 pubs and a high end restaurant in the last 3 years from 16-19.
They all paid her the minimum wage .
All the full time adult staff in all those locations got minimum wage too.

In one case they expected you to arrive before the shift started paying and leave after clearing down even though they stopped paying at the end of closing time.

She was much happier at the restaurant where the average meal bill would be well over £100 for 2 because most customers left tips of >10% and she made more in tips than wages.
She also liked the customers more because they weren't continually cheaping out or trying to get things knocked off the bill for spurious reasons.
The customers were either rich or treating themselves and were expecting to pay for a lovely meal and excellent service.

Eat where you like, tip what you want.

 

[AshleyC]

one thing I would add is that i always tip delivery drivers. I do part time delivery for the local takeaway and we are out in wind rain snow and the rest of it to get your noodles to you. People wont even give you the 30p change from a £19.70 order. Even if every order gave you a 50p tip that would make a huge difference to the takehome hourly rate.

 

[munch]

Not assumption, experience.
My daughter has worked in 2 pubs and a high end restaurant in the last 3 years from 16-19.
They all paid her the minimum wage .
All the full time adult staff in all those locations got minimum wage too.

In one case they expected you to arrive before the shift started paying and leave after clearing down even though they stopped paying at the end of closing time.

She was much happier at the restaurant where the average meal bill would be well over £100 for 2 because most customers left tips of >10% and she made more in tips than wages.
She also liked the customers more because they weren't continually cheaping out or trying to get things knocked off the bill for spurious reasons.
The customers were either rich or treating themselves and were expecting to pay for a lovely meal and excellent service.

Eat where you like, tip what you want.

It is your daughters experience, it is not everybody's. The 16 year old lad who works at the local hotel gets £9.00 an hour the same as all the other staff who wait on tables. But I know that is the norm either.