Time to Arm the Police

[RIR]

Why not?

Disregarding the flippant comment above.

Because, situations that require "people" skills, such as domestic disputes, glass threats in pubs, violent disorder, knife wielding youths, etc., are all too easily and quickly resolved with a firearm, with the resultant death on the conscience.

 

[Ricardodaforce]

Disregarding the flippant comment above.

Because, situations that require "people" skills, such as domestic disputes, glass threats in pubs, violent disorder, knife wielding youths, etc., are all too easily and quickly resolved with a firearm, with the resultant death on the conscience.

Do you think that is a genuine problem in Northern Ireland, France, Germany, Spain et al?

 

[OldCarlos]

Maybe the police in other countries are better trained? Maybe the police in other countries get a bit more respect from crims?

 

[viv1969]

Maybe the police in other countries are better trained? Maybe the police in other countries get a bit more respect from crims?

Respect from criminals? Really?

 

[dejongj]

Disregarding the flippant comment above.

Because, situations that require "people" skills, such as domestic disputes, glass threats in pubs, violent disorder, knife wielding youths, etc., are all too easily and quickly resolved with a firearm, with the resultant death on the conscience.

surely just because you carry a firearm that doesn't mean you draw it every time. I guess it's a cultural thing but it's not like other countries got big gun fights or police is killing lots of people.

I'm wondering whether the judicial and procedural focus of the U.K. System makes officers weary of carrying them.

 

[RIR]

surely just because you carry a firearm that doesn't mean you draw it every time. I guess it's a cultural thing but it's not like other countries got big gun fights or police is killing lots of people.

I'm wondering whether the judicial and procedural focus of the U.K. System makes officers weary of carrying them.

No it doesn't. But if it is available, it will inevitably be used, especially by the less experienced, without first utilising other options.

 

[Ricardodaforce]

No it doesn't. But if it is available, it will inevitably be used, especially by the less experienced, without first utilising other options.

Do you think that is a genuine problem in Northern Ireland, France, Germany, Spain et al?

 

[skiking]

Arming the police shouldn't be mandatory and only officers who want to be armed should be armed (after training, obviously). I think it is right to increase mobile armed patrols but I also think we should be putting up a reserve force ie offices who are trained but only get issued with firearm if there is a major issue.

As for comment about some police not being trained like the military, then this is not true. There are specialist officers who are trained by certain sections of the military. They also have access to the same equipment.

There is more to policing than guns (thank god). If we go the American way then we are doomed.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Arming the police shouldn't be mandatory and only officers who want to be armed should be armed (after training, obviously). I think it is right to increase mobile armed patrols but I also think we should be putting up a reserve force ie offices who are trained but only get issued with firearm if there is a major issue.

As for comment about some police not being trained like the military, then this is not true. There are specialist officers who are trained by certain sections of the military. They also have access to the same equipment.

There is more to policing than guns (thank god). If we go the American way then we are doomed.

Are you sure about that? It's true that a tiny number of the "best" police officers do receive some military training from people who are acknowledged experts, but according to these experts (22 reg) the police go there for (I think) 4 days, swan around telling everyone how good they are, and then prove the opposite by burning through ammo by ignoring instructions and selecting continuous, and generally acting like arrogant pratts, both in the killing house and in the bar at night. The staff sgts used to supply written reports on each attendee but are no longer allowed to do so, and the attendees cannot fail the course. And by the same token they can't even fail the physical fitness tests, all that they have to do is to attend.

 

[neil_g]

even if it was wanted where would the funds come from?

hampshire council is currently in public consultation to increase tax by 1.99% to maintain hampshire policing (to quote the commissioner on BBC Radio Solent this morning) at "the existing minimum acceptable standard".

 

[Russ77]

I certainly wouldn't want to see all Police routinely armed, however I would like to see the number or specially trained firearms officers increased and that they have support from the army (some kind of rapid reaction group) that could be deployed in a matter of minutes should there be a terrorist attack like we've seen in Paris, Tunisia etc.

How practical that would be and the logistics are another matter though.

 

[boyfalldown]

I wouldn't want to see all police routinely armed. I rather like the fact Ilve in a society that doesn't feel the need to routinely arm them. I do support the increase in trained firearms officers though.

 

[Garry Edwards]

I certainly wouldn't want to see all Police routinely armed, however I would like to see the number or specially trained firearms officers increased and that they have support from the army (some kind of rapid reaction group) that could be deployed in a matter of minutes should there be a terrorist attack like we've seen in Paris, Tunisia etc.

How practical that would be and the logistics are another matter though.

This is already in place in large cities. But the decision whether or not to call them in is taken by the police...

There is history here, when the IRA was active in London. The police firearms units weren't equipped to deal with them and the SAS had words with the IRA terrorists, with the result that the IRA decided not to continue their activities in our cities.

 

[jakeblu]

This is already in place in large cities. But the decision whether or not to call them in is taken by the police...

There is history here, when the IRA was active in London. The police firearms units weren't equipped to deal with them and the SAS had words with the IRA terrorists, with the result that the IRA decided not to continue their activities in our cities.

With all due respect to the SAS and our armed forces its extremely doubtful that is the reason the IRA stopped mainland bombing in the UK and probably more to do with the good Friday agreement

 

[Garry Edwards]

With all due respect to the SAS and our armed forces its extremely doubtful that is the reason the IRA stopped mainland bombing in the UK and probably more to do with the good Friday agreement

No, this long pre-dated the Good Friday agreement. And the SAS sorted out IRA hostage situations and seiges, not bombings. Even the police said at the time that the IRA started surrendering as soon as they heard that the SAS were on scene... Of course, the IRA were fighting their cause but didn't actually want to be martyrs, so the situation could be much more difficult when dealing with religion-based terrorsts today.

 

[jakeblu]

No, this long pre-dated the Good Friday agreement. And the SAS sorted out IRA hostage situations and seiges, not bombings. Even the police said at the time that the IRA started surrendering as soon as they heard that the SAS were on scene... Of course, the IRA were fighting their cause but didn't actually want to be martyrs, so the situation could be much more difficult when dealing with religion-based terrorsts today.

The IRA were still actively bombing the mainland in 1996 3 years before the good friday agreement but only months before they joined the talks. The so called Real IRA were still bombing the mainland in 2001.

 

[MartynK]

Sir Stephen House, the former Chief Constable of Police Scotland, was heavily criticised by MSPs, his own officers and the public for deploying armed police on normal duties. He stepped down in 2015 before the end of his contract, for various reasons, but I assume that this was one of them.

I can't help wondering if House was given a quiet nod to test the water, to assess reactions to police routinely carrying firearms. He was approaching the end of his career, and didn't have much at stake personally.

 

[woof woof]

No, this long pre-dated the Good Friday agreement. And the SAS sorted out IRA hostage situations and seiges, not bombings. Even the police said at the time that the IRA started surrendering as soon as they heard that the SAS were on scene... Of course, the IRA were fighting their cause but didn't actually want to be martyrs, so the situation could be much more difficult when dealing with religion-based terrorsts today.

It's years since I had any interest in IRA related history but I do remember reading something to this effect more than once but as you say, the terrorists we have today are a different breed to the Irish terrorists and no doubt set off on their murderous missions knowing they're going to die.