Time to Arm the Police

Do you think all police officers should be armed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 27.8%

  • No

    Votes: 37 68.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • Total voters
    54
R

Ricardodaforce

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No
I see the Met Police are going to be training hundreds more firearms officers. We are living in dangerous times. Isn't it time that we armed all of our police officers? It's the norm in Northern Ireland and most of Europe. I don't have a problem with it. What do you think?
 
no not a good idea, arm the police and criminals will do the same leading to unneccessary blood baths. Next the ordinary public will demand the right to carry guns and we will end up like the USA. We have never had armed police in the past walking the streets and don't want it now
 
I don't want to see standard police with guns. I seem to think in the USA the cops just shoot people rather than chase them down.
 
jakeblu said:
I think the level of armed police officers in this country is about right. I wouldn't want to see the police armed as a matter of course.
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I suspect that most folk would agree with you.
That view will pertain until there is an event here similar to the Paris attack then people will scream for those who failed to arm the police to be sacked (or worse).

When the Paris attack happened one of gunmen was on the theatre stage shooting people. He has ample ammunition to kill everyone. He had killed about 90 when the first police arrived (two ordinary Paris Gendarmes armed only with their standard pistols). One of these Gendarmes shot the gunman dead thereby saving many lives.
I don't really want all UK police to be armed, but I think it has to happen.
 
I know a couple of coppers who couldn't write f*** on a wall so no, don't arm all of them! Maybe some more than are armed at the moment but not all.
 
Shame it's got to this & something I'd prefer not to happen, but the time has probably come unfortunately :(

Thing is, ALL present police don't need training immediately (some either aren't suitable or they don't want to) but it can be mandatory for all new recruits, so phased in.

Apart from anything else, there aren't too many bobbies on the beat anymore (community/Dixon of Dock Green types) & police numbers in general have declined.
PSCO's have taken over much of this role & they obviously don't need to be armed.
 
Yes definitely armed. I grew up with police being armed. I still find it weird not seeing them armed routinely in the UK. Doesn't seem like proper police to me.
 
DorsetDude said:
Most of them arent, they're PCSO's with all the arrest powers of a constipated shrew
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i was talking about police officers, not civilians.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
I see the Met Police are going to be training hundreds more firearms officers. We are living in dangerous times. Isn't it time that we armed all of our police officers? It's the norm in Northern Ireland and most of Europe. I don't have a problem with it. What do you think?
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I agree the Police should be armed with guns in the places the Police think they should. Unlike some I would prefere the Police to decide. Increasing ARV teams is no bad thing. That said arming all of them is not wise.
 
Im not sure I agree that ALL Police should be armed, but I do believe that we should be making more of an effort in training more armed Police Units, that can be deployed where necessary. According to the news today (as Ric has eluded to), there will be another 600 officers that will be firearms trained, which will bring the total in the Capital to 2800. To me this still doesn't exactly seem like a lot.
 
IIRC, every time they have been surveyed, the police officers themselves have responded overwhelmingly that they do not want to routinely be armed.
Granted, they also used to say the same thing about pepper / cs spray but were overruled.

My opinion? It's not necessary.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
I see the Met Police are going to be training hundreds more firearms officers. We are living in dangerous times. Isn't it time that we armed all of our police officers? It's the norm in Northern Ireland and most of Europe. I don't have a problem with it. What do you think?
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"dangerous times" ....

have you got the stats that show how the percentage of deaths by gunshot wounding are increasing year on year in the uk?
 
At present they are increasing the armed (2000) officers in London by 600.
As for arming them nationwide, I'm not sure TBH.
I know that legislation will have to be altered if they do.
Although the below is an old joke, it kinda rings true too.


Question:
How do you tell the difference between a British Police Officer,
an Australian Police Officer and an American Police Officer?

Answer: Pose the following question:


You're on duty by yourself walking down a deserted street.
Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, raises the knife, and charges at you.
You are carrying a Glock .40, and you are an expert shot.
You have mere seconds before he reaches you. What do you do?

British Officers Answer:
Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!
There is the Human Rights Act to consider!
Does the man look poor or oppressed?
Is he newly arrived in this country and does not yet understand the law?
Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?
Am I dressed provocatively?
Could I run away?
Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?
What does the law say about this situation?
Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it?
Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society?
Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?
If I were to grab his knees and hold on, would he still want to stab and kill me?
If I raise my gun and he turns and runs away, do I get blamed if he falls over, knocks his head and kills himself? .
If I shoot and wound him, and lose the subsequent court case, does he have the opportunity to sue me, cost me my job, my credibility and the loss of my family home?

Australian Officers Answer:
Bang!

American Officers Answer:
Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang! Bang!

Sergeant at scene later: 'Nice grouping!
 
I prefer the Australian response.
 
dejongj said:
I prefer the Australian response.
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Double tap, always double tap ;)

(The rest of course is a bonus if not a waste of ammo :D )
 
Well, sadly we need more armed police...

I was chatting to a couple of bobbies in the summer... I mentioned that it must be hard wearing all that clobber in such hot weather and they said that it was... I went on to say that it much be terribly uncomfortable to have to run after baddies in all that clobber in such hot weather and they again confirmed that it was... So, I suggested that they should be issued with guns so that they wouldn't have to chase baddies while wearing all that clobber in such hot weather, they could just shoot them. A gentleman should never run anyway..

One of them laughed but I thought the other was going to swallow his own face :D
 
Cobra said:
Double tap, always double tap ;)

(The rest of course is a bonus if not a waste of ammo :D )
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Not what I was taught. But then again where I was dropped we didn't have the luxury of a large logistics net behind us. Had to make our ammunition count and last.
 
woof woof said:
One of them laughed but I thought the other was going to swallow his own face :D
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Brilliant :D

dejongj said:
But then again where I was dropped we didn't have the luxury of a large logistics net behind us.
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Yep them there Chilterns can be a very hostile / inhospitable place at the best of times :D
 
Cobra said:
Brilliant :D
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A stream of consciousness just seems to come out of my mouth. Sometimes I can't believe what I'm saying but I can't stop myself.

The cops probably thought I was affected.
 
Having had dealings with sadistic police officers, lying police officers, stupid police officers and police officers who look like they just left school....my answer would be NO

yes I have for the most part met decent police officers. yes they are the majority... but arm them all? please NO!
 
KIPAX said:
Having had dealings with sadistic police officers, lying police officers, stupid police officers and police officers who look like they just left school....my answer would be NO

yes I have for the most part met decent police officers. yes they are the majority... but arm them all? please NO!
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Yup... not sure I'd want them all armed and I'm sure many would resign rather than carry guns but... if we don't arm the best of the volunteers to be armed who are we going to rely on to use ultimate force to save lives? Assuming that the SAS can't be everywhere the sad fact is that we need armed police and even sadder, we need more than we currently have.
 
boliston said:
"dangerous times" ....

have you got the stats that show how the percentage of deaths by gunshot wounding are increasing year on year in the uk?
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No I haven't. I'm sure you can find them online though.
 
Most police officers don't want to be armed, if we (the government) forced them to be armed then we would have to get rid of a lot of them and recruit people who are very different.

Guns solve nothing unless the person using the gun is highly trained - way above the standard of our armed police, so god help us all if "ordinary" police end up with guns.

Although I'm personally very unhappy about police actions where unarmed people have been shot and the police have then covered up, it's understandable that they do so. If police were routinely armed then we would have to accept that many more innocent people would end up dead, and the police would need to be able to act in a far less accountable manner.

As far as terrorists are concerned, only the military has the level of training and expertise needed to deal with them effectively. The police can't do it because they aren't trained to engage, or to accept casualties amongst their own. They know how to contained armed criminals but don't know how to go forward, and it would need a new generation, trained by the military not by the police, to change this.
 
What kit might they be able to do away with if they were issued with firearms?
 
DorsetDude said:
Most of them arent, they're PCSO's with all the arrest powers of a constipated shrew
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dejongj said:
i was talking about police officers, not civilians.
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Actually I find that a bit unfair on PCSO's many who are hard working and dedicated to the job. They do a great deal of work in the community and for many they are a welcoming presence and offer a sense of security. I know they don't have the powers of a normal officer, and I would like to see more of those on the beat but the reality of the situation is that with cuts to the police a PCSO is all were likely to see.
 
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jakeblu said:
Actually I find that a bit unfair on PCSO's many who are hard working and dedicated to the job. They do a great deal of work in the community and for many they are a welcoming presence and offer a sense of security. I know they don't have the powers of a normal officer, and I would like to see more of those on the beat but the reality of the situation is that with cuts to the police a PCSO is all were likely to see.
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I was purely and solely commenting on who should be armed. You will not hear a single negative comment from me towards pcso. I think they are a fantastic asset, just don't think it is appropriate to arm that role with firearms.
 
After the increase in armed officers nearly one in ten police will be trained armed officers.
This would seem to be more than adequate to cover the armed incidents they might be called to control.
Thare are very few incidents when arms are in anyway appropriate.

While we do have armed officers it is extremely rare that any arms are drawn let alone fired. Collateral injuries or deaths to passers by is almost unheard of.

I think the present balance is correct, arms have been proved to be totally unnecessary for day to day policing.

Unarmed Police that have been killed by guns in service have never been show to have died because they were not armed. Or that had they been armed, that the outcome would have been any different.
 
dejongj said:
I was purely and solely commenting on who should be armed. You will not hear a single negative comment from me towards pcso. I think they are a fantastic asset, just don't think it is appropriate to arm that role with firearms.
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OMG no! Sorry I must taken your comment out of context.
 
only the military has thelevel of training and expertise needed to deal with them effectively.??

Might have done back in the 80,s early 90,s plus would the police sign over the control to the army? Plus it would take a long time to get troops out of camp unless they have some on QRF (quick reaction force)
 
As an ex cop, I can safely state that I, and my ex colleagues, did/do not wish to be routinely armed.
 
RIR said:
As an ex cop, I can safely state that I, and my ex colleagues, did/do not wish to be routinely armed.
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Why not?
 
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