Tilt shift style

[IanTurner]

Evening all,

i've not been on here in a while, but had a quick look and can't find the info i'm after so would like some of you knowledgeable people to help me?

basically im in my final year at college (ND photography) and doing a end of year show and have chosen the technique of 'tilt shift' or the 'fake' photography as some call it.

i have watched a few videos on youtube and made one myself with a lens and some rubber bellows but i can't get it to focus properly as its still to far from the body?

has anyone any experience in this field or tried out the technique?
i have tried this using photoshop but would like to do it 'on camera' if possible

thanks in advance

Ian

 

[Alastair]

Have you looked at Lensbaby? might give you some ideas..

What lens are you using with the bellows? any chance of some pictures of the set-up so we can see what's going on?

 

[IanTurner]

I have looked at them, about an hour ago as it happens, I was leaning towards the tilt transformer but that wont fit my lens, and the others although giving great effects, don't give the effect i'm after.
here is my set up:

i am just using my standard canon 18-55mm and a canon 50mm 1.8 just popped into one end

Ian

 

[AJQS]

You could try freelensing - basically unclip the lens and hold it in the mount loosely and tilt away.

 

[cjay]

Evening all,

i've not been on here in a while, but had a quick look and can't find the info i'm after so would like some of you knowledgeable people to help me?

basically im in my final year at college (ND photography) and doing a end of year show and have chosen the technique of 'tilt shift' or the 'fake' photography as some call it.

<snip>

has anyone any experience in this field or tried out the technique?
i have tried this using photoshop but would like to do it 'on camera' if possible

thanks in advance

Ian

I bought a tilt adapter from Kiev Arsenal - the adapter allows a Pentax/Canon/Nikon (choose to match your body) to mount a Pentacon6 lens as a tilt lens. Dead simple and the adapter and a few Pentacon6 lenses are cheap.

C

 

[HoppyUK]

What's the question? What's wrong with getting a tilt & shift lens? If it's cost, then hire one.

If you want to bodge it, the first thing you need is a lens with a large image circle, ie one designed to cover a much larger format, like 6x6cm. You can pick up a cheap enlarging lens to do that, like this 80mm lens I stuck into a LensBaby with BluTack. It works pretty well actually

 

[lensflair]

What's the question? What's wrong with getting a tilt & shift lens? If it's cost, then hire one.

If you want to bodge it, the first thing you need is a lens with a large image circle, ie one designed to cover a much larger format, like 6x6cm. You can pick up a cheap enlarging lens to do that, like this 80mm lens I stuck into a LensBaby with BluTack. It works pretty well actually

Do you have any examples taken with that set up hoppy? I've messed about a bit with free lensing and have thought about picking up a lensbaby myself. I wouldn't use a tilt shift enough outside of messing about with it so it so its always been something I can't really justify spending that much cash on.

 

[HoppyUK]

Do you have any examples taken with that set up hoppy? I've messed about a bit with free lensing and have thought about picking up a lensbaby myself. I wouldn't use a tilt shift enough outside of messing about with it so it so its always been something I can't really justify spending that much cash on.

Not really Graham. Only a few test pictures to see how it worked.

Which it does, but the lens I used (£15 off t'web) is uncoated and a bit flarey, and the range of focusing with the LensBaby is limited. I thought about getting a better lens and mounting it properly, but in the end concluded that a pukka T&S lens was a better way forward, and that is deffo on my list of lenses to get.

TBH, you might find a professional application for it. T&S lenses are tricky to use but something like the Canon 90mm would be great for product photography, and also for getting cool very shallow DoF portraits using the angled reverse Scheimpflug trick.

I've not done much work like that, but those are the things I'd like to try. Plus of course the more normal max DoF Scheimpflug things, and 'model' effects.


Max DoF front to rear on carpet, regular Scheimpflug

Min DoF front to rear, reverse Scheimpflug

Angled DoF, reverse Scheimpflug angled right

 

[lensflair]

Not really Graham. Only a few test pictures to see how it worked.

Which it does, but the lens I used (£15 off t'web) is uncoated and a bit flarey, and the range of focusing with the LensBaby is limited. I thought about getting a better lens and mounting it properly, but in the end concluded that a pukka T&S lens was a better way forward, and that is deffo on my list of lenses to get.

TBH, you might find a professional application for it. T&S lenses are tricky to use but something like the Canon 90mm would be great for product photography, and also for getting cool very shallow DoF portraits using the angled reverse Scheimpflug trick.

I've not done much work like that, but those are the things I'd like to try. Plus of course the more normal max DoF Scheimpflug things, and 'model' effects.

Max DoF front to rear on carpet, regular Scheimpflug

Min DoF front to rear, reverse Scheimpflug

Angled DoF, reverse Scheimpflug angled right

Hey your talking me round to getting one

I know your right, I would find uses for it. Not only that, they are just such a cool bit if engineering. OK its back on the wish list for now

 

[EdBray]

Personally if I did not have my Hasselblad lenses I would have gone for a Mirex Mamiya to Canon tilt/shift adapter and a few Mamiya 645 C or N lenses. Much cheaper than a Canon or Nikon t/s lens.

The adapter is under £400 with delivery and you can pick up a Mamiya 80mm C for under £100 on the bay, a 45mm for under £150 and if you are really lucky you can find the Mamiya 50mm shift which opens up a lot more options, although that does go for a bit more than the standard lenses.

On my Mirex, I find I most use the 50mm Distagon and the 80mm Planar so the combination suggested above gives you a decent start into true tilt/shift photography for less than the secondhand price of a TSE lens.

 

[TheBigYin]

I have looked at them, about an hour ago as it happens, I was leaning towards the tilt transformer but that wont fit my lens, and the others although giving great effects, don't give the effect i'm after.
here is my set up:

i am just using my standard canon 18-55mm and a canon 50mm 1.8 just popped into one end

Ian

What you really need for this kind of rig to work well, is a lens that is designed for a longer "register length" than the standard lenses. Register length is basically the distance from the lens mount to the point that the lens is pre-built to project the image to... i.e. mount to sensor distance or mount to film for older lenses. Canon EOS register distance is 44mm. Any further out from this, and you lose ability to focus to infinity. The further out you get, the closer the maximum distance you can focus at gets - the bellows bit is effectively a flexible extension tube. To get something that will focus at sensible distances, check the link, and you'll find all kinds of lenses that will focus further out from the sensor. Most of them will be from old Medium Format film cameras - something like a Bronica Zenzanon MC would work fine, albeit not at a beer-budget price :shrug:

 

[HoppyUK]

What you really need for this kind of rig to work well, is a lens that is designed for a longer "register length" than the standard lenses. Register length is basically the distance from the lens mount to the point that the lens is pre-built to project the image to... i.e. mount to sensor distance or mount to film for older lenses. Canon EOS register distance is 44mm. Any further out from this, and you lose ability to focus to infinity. The further out you get, the closer the maximum distance you can focus at gets - the bellows bit is effectively a flexible extension tube. To get something that will focus at sensible distances, check the link, and you'll find all kinds of lenses that will focus further out from the sensor. Most of them will be from old Medium Format film cameras - something like a Bronica Zenzanon MC would work fine, albeit not at a beer-budget price :shrug:

It's not the register distance that matters, it's the size of the projected image circle, so it is big enough to tilt and shift the lens off axis and still cover the sensor.

T&S lenses have a much bigger image circle than necessary to cover the full 24x36mm frame format, but the same register distance as any other full frame lens. Medium format film camera lenses naturally have a much bigger image circle to start with, to cover a 6x6cm image, so they make good substitutes. The enlarging lens used in the LensBaby pictured above is for medium format.

The register distance is dictated by the size of the mirror, which needs sufficient space to flip up behind the lens.

Edit: you may be thinking about a longer back focus distance, which is also necessary to clear all the mechanical gubbins behind the lens, but that too is something different and is primary dictated by focal length and modified by optical design, eg retrofocus.

 

[TheBigYin]

I bow to your greater knowledge & experience Richard, but call it back focus distance or register length - in fact call it Willemena for all I care, for the rig that the OP has posted a shot of, he needs a lens that will project the image at a larger size and further back from the lens than the one he's using at the moment. I know, as I tried building one myself for last years POTY Tilt Shift round with zero success as I'd only a Canon FD lens to hand. Recently I picked up a Bronica ETRSi and in an idle moment, tried the Zenzanon in the former FD rig and it worked much, much better - though it was still in effect a big wobbly unwieldy lensbaby, and totally useless for what I wanted it for

 

[HoppyUK]

I bow to your greater knowledge & experience Richard, but call it back focus distance or register length - in fact call it Willemena for all I care, for the rig that the OP has posted a shot of, he needs a lens that will project the image at a larger size and further back from the lens than the one he's using at the moment. I know, as I tried building one myself for last years POTY Tilt Shift round with zero success as I'd only a Canon FD lens to hand. Recently I picked up a Bronica ETRSi and in an idle moment, tried the Zenzanon in the former FD rig and it worked much, much better - though it was still in effect a big wobbly unwieldy lensbaby, and totally useless for what I wanted it for

I like Willemena, but it's neither back focus nor register distance. It's a big image circle you need, and medium format lenses naturally have that. As do all T&S lenses.

Medium format lenses also have longer back focus, as do all longer focal length lenses, and that's handy for getting the necessary mechanical stuff in there, but it's not what you need to move the lens off axis and is unrelated to register.

 

[TheBigYin]

With this rig, the OP's pretty much putting a big wobbly extension tube in the path between lens and sensor. That's fine, for fancy dof effects at close up, but it's not going to be much use shooting something at a few metres away, with a lens that has a bigger "Willemena" all the wobbly tube will do is move it into somewhere near the right place. It's not ALL about getting the lens off-axis - indeed the basic lensbaby uses push-pull its bellows arrangement to allow focusing at different distances.

 

[Corsa_Quadz]

Looks like a nice little tool to try, may invest in something like this soon

 

[IanTurner]

Thanks for your responses guys i will try out some of your ideas, i did think about trying a telephoto lens but may try a different lens altogether one that can focus away from the body more as that is my main problem, i would love to go out and purchase a tilt shift lens but unfortunately out of my price range hence the slight improvisation.

i will try and have a think about what lens to use, i may try and do this on a medium format or at least with a medium format lens - depending on what i can get my hands on at college

will report back my findings soon

Ian

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks for your responses guys i will try out some of your ideas, i did think about trying a telephoto lens but may try a different lens altogether one that can focus away from the body more as that is my main problem, i would love to go out and purchase a tilt shift lens but unfortunately out of my price range hence the slight improvisation.

i will try and have a think about what lens to use, i may try and do this on a medium format or at least with a medium format lens - depending on what i can get my hands on at college

will report back my findings soon

Ian

Forgive me if you've got this, but what you need to shift or tilt the lens is an image circle which is larger than the sensor. Google it. A medium format lens on will not work on a medium format camera, only on a smaller format camera.

You also need some kind of shifting and focusing mechanism, and room behind the lens to accommodate that, but unless you have the big image circle in the first place you won't be able to move the lens off-axis without the edges going black. You will just 'run out of lens' so to speak.