Thoughts on Dslr - mirrorless switch

Firstly, I'm not the only person talking about the waxy skin. So by all means pick on me but please don't assume I'm the only one who has experienced this issue. Secondly, you are comparing your X-T1 to my experiences with an X-T2. I think with your "lots of experience with DSLR and mirror-less cameras" you can work out that we are talking about two different cameras. Thirdly, DO NOT dismiss my opinions and DO NOT imply I have a lack of skill. Because if you do you are going to look like a very silly little man.

The comment you quoted and Barry Sprout quoted was made by me to amateur photographers. And I stand by the comment. The FUJI is a joy to use (I Still own a X-Pro2) and I can live with it's weaknesses (ISO/sharpness) for my own personal use. But for pro use it's not as good as my Nikon's. Simple fact. For amateur use go for it. Fun to use and decent JPEGs. Noisy RAW files that don't play well with Adobe. No thanks.

On your other point, I'll tell people they are giving bad advice if I believe they are. All day long. You won't stop me and neither will anyone else. Dave70D made a misleading and completely inaccurate statement, suggesting that members of the fuji thread "could" be pros. What a joke! Sure they COULD be. But anyone who's been a member of the forum for any length of time will know that the vast majority of the forum are amateurs/hobbyists. And that thread is no different. You clearly have a chip on your shoulder about professional photographers. Whilst it's easy to sling the "pros are not very good" label around it's just a pathetic insult from a bitter man. Get over it.

To the poor OP who by now will have given up on TP, I would just say this. I have used DSLR and mirror less in real world professional environments and at this stage I would strongly suggest you stick with your Canon cameras for your portrait and event work. If you want to get a mirrorless for your street photography it might be worth dipping your toe in. But whatever you do don't ditch the Canons.

Oh and did I forewarn the Fuji Fanboys would be beating the door down to get into this thread. I think I may have.

The XT-1 and T2 are not all that different. And I will dismiss all I like, as you are doing it to everyone else's comments. Nobody is picking on you, I said nothing the first 2 times I saw you scaremongering about artifacts and waxiness. It's like you're on some anti-fuji mission, you're in with your tuppence every thread you see someone considering a move.

Every single one of your posts in here is misleading as not so long ago you were all praise for the very camera you're now slating. You're also being a massive hypocrite, telling someone off for giving supposed bad advice to newcomers, then you say your posts in the Fuji threads are aimed at amateurs, [are you actually a pro?? - you think this makes your opinion more valid?] yet here you are .... again, bad mouthing Fuji cameras to newcomers because it didn't suit you. I am implying you are lacking skill, with Fuji cameras, yes. It's not an insult, it's an opinion. If you want to take it to insults go right ahead, I think you're the one who will end up looking silly[er] though.

You didn't forewarn anything btw, you threw that line in because you knew people would call you out on it. Calling them "fanboys" is just showing you up even more. Grow up.
 
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The XT-1 and T2 are not all that different. And I will dismiss all I like, as you are doing to everyone else's comments.

Every single one of your posts in here is misleading. You're also being a massive hypocrite, telling someone off for giving supposed bad advice to newcomers, then you say your posts in the Fuji threads are aimed at amateurs, [are you actually a pro?? - you think this makes your opinion more valid?] yet here you are .... again, bad mouthing Fuji cameras to newcomers because it didn't suit you. I am implying you are lacking skill, with Fuji cameras, yes. It's not an insult, it's an opinion. If you want to take it to insults go right ahead, I think you're the one who will end up looking silly[er] though.

You didn't forewarn anything btw, you threw that line in because you knew people would call you out on it. Calling them "fanboys" is just showing you up even more. Grow up.

You really are a moron. I am not bad mouthing Fuji cameras at all. I am stating facts. The OP's Canon 5D III wipes the floor with the Fuji X-T2 and you know it as well as I do. So the Fuji is lighter. Man up buttercup.

And yes I did forewarn the likes of you (you know, with the word "FUJI" tattooed across your backside) would be along soon. Quoted from my earlier post.....

I GUARANTEE a bunch of Fuji fans will be along soon to tell me I'm wrong

One thing people like you Keith have failed to realise over the years is this - cameras and lenses are TOOLS. Designed to do a specific job. They are not items to fall in love with, they don't go out to dinner with you, they don't tell you how handsome, witty or good in bed you are. They just do a job. So please (before I lose what sanity I have left) stop defending your kit like it's your wife or child.

And you tell me to grow up.....
 
You really are a moron. I am not bad mouthing Fuji cameras at all. I am stating facts. The OP's Canon 5D III wipes the floor with the Fuji X-T2 and you know it as well as I do. So the Fuji is lighter. Man up buttercup.

And yes I did forewarn the likes of you (you know, with the word "FUJI" tattooed across your backside) would be along soon. Quoted from my earlier post.....

I GUARANTEE a bunch of Fuji fans will be along soon to tell me I'm wrong

One thing people like you Keith have failed to realise over the years is this - cameras and lenses are TOOLS. Designed to do a specific job. They are not items to fall in love with, they don't go out to dinner with you, they don't tell you how handsome, witty or good in bed you are. They just do a job. So please (before I lose what sanity I have left) stop defending your kit like it's your wife or child.

And you tell me to grow up.....

I wondered when you'd jump to insults. Very pro ....
 
You really are a moron. I am not bad mouthing Fuji cameras at all. I am stating facts. The OP's Canon 5D III wipes the floor with the Fuji X-T2 and you know it as well as I do. So the Fuji is lighter. Man up buttercup.

And yes I did forewarn the likes of you (you know, with the word "FUJI" tattooed across your backside) would be along soon. Quoted from my earlier post.....

I GUARANTEE a bunch of Fuji fans will be along soon to tell me I'm wrong

One thing people like you Keith have failed to realise over the years is this - cameras and lenses are TOOLS. Designed to do a specific job. They are not items to fall in love with, they don't go out to dinner with you, they don't tell you how handsome, witty or good in bed you are. They just do a job. So please (before I lose what sanity I have left) stop defending your kit like it's your wife or child.

And you tell me to grow up.....

OH dear who is being bad with name calling, just goes to show, you always get one :rolleyes:
 
I wondered when you'd jump to insults. Very pro ....
You called me a hypocrite. I called you a moron. I suggest you actually do something to help the OP rather than stalk me.
 
Are we done with the personal insults now, guys?

That was a rhetorical question btw! ...
Please play nice :)
 
OH dear who is being bad with name calling, just goes to show, you always get one :rolleyes:
And look at you - "fujidavexx". With "I love Fuji" in his signature. Trying being impartial and remember what I said about kit. It's not your lover. It won't keep you warm at night. It's electronic stuff with pros and cons. Good for some uses, not so good for others. Simple really.
 
You called me a hypocrite. I called you a moron. I suggest you actually do something to help the OP rather than stalk me.

I think there's a bit of a difference. I have helped OP, I told them to do research beyond what information they get here. Hypocrite isn't an insult, it means you do one thing, but say another, that is hypocritical. Calling someone a moron is a direct insult. Stalking you? It's not even your thread :D
 
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And look at you - "fujidavexx". With "I love Fuji" in his signature. Trying being impartial and remember what I said about kit. It's not your lover. It won't keep you warm at night. It's electronic stuff with pros and cons. Good for some uses, not so good for others. Simple really.


I dont make a living from it, so iam happy, now go away and leave me alone. Nuff said.
 
Are we done with the personal insults now, guys?

That was a rhetorical question btw! ...
Please play nice :)

There was only the one, aimed at me, but I'm over and done with it. Only seen your post now btw.
 
especially working photographers


Yes, go for it…

but only under the condition that you have health issues.

DSLRs (Nikon spoken here!) offer me the most extended
lens, etc system and options to achieve all of my assign-
ments with the support of dedicated technologies.
 
I only recently decided to get a "proper" camera. I went for a DSLR in the end because the mirrorless options that were equal to it were a great deal more expensive and I couldn't justify it just for weight savings. I'm sure it won't be long before the prices become more in line with one another as the mirrorless cameras mature. Another big thing in my decision was handling and had to get each of my options in my hands only to find the mirrorless camera I was leaning towards just wasn't comfortable for me.
 
The question to ask when it comes to camera choice. Is which camera satisfies your needs and ways of working. And at the same time satisfies those of your clients.
If you dislike the way a camera handles, you will never get the best out of it.
Mirrorless is where all the development is going on. In some respects, and at the top level, they already compete on a very close level with the best Dslr's. Within a few years they will clearly supass anything a Dslr can offer. If only because Dslrs are a matue system that are now getting little further development, except for the pass on technology from mirrorless development.

Fuji Xtrans sensors clearly have some advantages. This is indicative in that their Aps sensors are always compared with Dslr FF professional cameras. The quality of their results speak for themselves. Some photographers certainly claim that they produce waxy skin. Far more can find no such thing. Pixel peepers can always find fault and artifacts in all sensors at 100%. But at real world sizes all top cameras, Dslr's and mirrorless, produce wonderful results that more than satisfies even the most critical client.

For what ever reason, both Dslr and mirrorless cameras suit some photographers and not so others. The choice is not so much about the results that can be obtained from them, it is mostly about personal preference and perception.
 
I'm not a pro, but did switch from 5D3 to XT2 and XPro2, primarily for weight.

The Fujis certainly deliver in terms of weight - not just because the bodies are smaller, but the glass is too (no magic here, it's just sized for cropped sensors, so can be smaller).
Image wise, I have no complaints, but I don't review at 100%. I had no complaints with the Canon on the same basis. I was (and am) very happy with the output from both.

I do tend to use the Fuji jpegs more than the raw now - I don't think that's because the jpeg files are magical, it's just there's more focus / attention our there on internet about in camera settings, so I paid more attention to them on Fuji and it means I spend less time on the computer, whereas on the 5D3, I didn't even bother shooting jpg as that was the perceived wisdom at the time. The big advantage of mirrorless over DSLR here is what you see is what you get - the EVF reflecting all aspects of the shot means I'm much more adept at dialing in compensation when I need to.

The another big advantage of mirrorless for me has been Manual Focus capability - it's excellent and far exceeds the 5D3 using OVF. I've got to play with a lot of old lenses with adaptors, which is fun, and I have no fear about manually focussing any lens of needed, although I do use AF 99% of the time with lenses that support it.

Last big plus - the dials - especially the aperture ring. I tend to shoot Auto ISO, Auto Shutter and manual Aperture - adjustment is so natural I don't even think about it. Equally simple to switch to manual shutter etc. It's a well though out system and soon becomes second nature.

What I miss? The AF, while more than good enough for my current use, isn't as good as the 5D3 when it comes to fast moving, unpredictable subjects (mainly kids football for me); My kids don't play anymore so it doesn't matter. AF in general use feels fast and accurate - it does depend on the lens - newer lenses are very very fast, but then tend only to have f/2 max; the older lenses, are a little slower as a rule, but nothing to cause concern.

The other thing I miss is the 'magic' combo of the 5D3 and the 135L lens - It just produced some awesome images. I have the 90/2 which is the fuji equiv and while it does produce great images, it's just not the 135. Can't put my finger on it, but it's not down to the sensor size alone - must be some funky glass in there somewhere.

Finally - ergonomics - the XPro2 layout is superior to the XT2 in my mind within the Fuji world, but if you've walloping great hands, they will both be small to hold compared to the Canon - good thing in terms of bag size, but can take some getting used to.

All that said, I take a lot more pics with the Fuji than I ever did with the 5D3 simply because I have it with me more often. Important distinction here thought is as a hobbyist, I can choose whether I take a camera or not, so weight is a factor in that. As a Pro, I guess you will always have a camera when you are working, so that choice isn't really relevant to you.
 
Full time street photography with a big DSLR and FF lenses. No thanks, I don't like black eyes from chivalrous boyfriends shouting "Oi that's my bird" just before assaulting me :hungover::hungover::hungover:

Sneaking around with a modded X100T with the lights taped over and screen turned off would save some teeth perhaps

I have used my 5D for the last 3 years and have NEVER been stopped or caught by anyone. Mind you it could be down to being a big fella and the occasional scowl!
 
I did similar switch, although one generation earlier: 5D mark 2 to X-E2 (same as X-T1 internally). Similar to most other people, for weight saving.

I'm finding the AF to be okay, not better or worse than 5D2 in AF-S. But when the recent holiday with extended family involves children, I'm finding the AF-C severely lacking. I'm hoping future Fujifilm cameras will improve AF-C and allow me to capture my (future) child with higher hit-rate in dim lighting.

Apart from AF, it's a massive improvement all round: better control, lighter, smaller, better lens selection, smaller lenses, built-in flash for triggering manual off camera flash. I may be alone in this, but I like the fact with smaller sensor, I can use a bigger aperture and get all of the things I want in focus. Arty shots is not as useful for holiday photos.
 
Wow, that certainly started a heated debate! Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. I think it has certainly shown that there are certainly 2 camps in the for and against! It reminds me of the CANON v NIKON debate.
I appreciate everyone's opinion, it seems it comes down to personal choice.
Since posting this thread I have spoken to a couple of professional photographers who have jumped over to the fuji system, in particularly the XT-2, and say that it is phenomenal. And they're happy with the switch.

I think I shall dip my toe in by selling my backup body and my 70-200 for now and see how I go.
Thank you all, glad I found this community.
 
Wow, that certainly started a heated debate! Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. I think it has certainly shown that there are certainly 2 camps in the for and against! It reminds me of the CANON v NIKON debate.
I appreciate everyone's opinion, it seems it comes down to personal choice.
Since posting this thread I have spoken to a couple of professional photographers who have jumped over to the fuji system, in particularly the XT-2, and say that it is phenomenal. And they're happy with the switch.

I think I shall dip my toe in by selling my backup body and my 70-200 for now and see how I go.
Thank you all, glad I found this community.
good to hear Robert,i too found this an informative and entertaining thread,thankyou for starting it.
PS let me know if and when your canon gear goes in the ads.
 
Wow, that certainly started a heated debate! Thanks to everyone for your thoughts. I think it has certainly shown that there are certainly 2 camps in the for and against! It reminds me of the CANON v NIKON debate.
I appreciate everyone's opinion, it seems it comes down to personal choice.
Since posting this thread I have spoken to a couple of professional photographers who have jumped over to the fuji system, in particularly the XT-2, and say that it is phenomenal. And they're happy with the switch.

I think I shall dip my toe in by selling my backup body and my 70-200 for now and see how I go.
Thank you all, glad I found this community.
I for one am glad you managed to read between the lines and get some useful information from the very helpful guys here.
I get sick of all the inane comments some people make when all you really want are different opinions and not point scoring 'mine's better than yours' etc etc. There are some really helpful and unbiased people who contribute a lot on the Fuji threads, including @Cagey75 who helped me a lot with a similar decision recently, knowledgeable people with actual experience of using the gear. They are not 'Fan Boys', just enthusiasts who are willing to share their knowledge and experiences with the likes of us who are unsure which way to jump.

I think it's irrelevant to some extent comparing high end DSLR kit to CSC when the aim is to reduce weight and enjoy the photography experience, otherwise we would probably stay where we are and continue to carry the kit we've had. Having said that, the gap is definitely narrowing now, maybe not quite there but with all the recent improvements made by the CSC manufacturers, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the smaller systems start to take over.
There are Professional photographers who swear by Fuji and don't consider it a backward step at all, and may I add, some very good 'Amateur' photographers who imo are sometimes technically better than the Pros they aspire to. Let's face it, a Professional in any field by definition, is simply someone who gets paid for what they do, it doesn't make them or their opinions worth any more than Joe Bloggs who takes fantastic pictures for pleasure.

Anyway, enjoy your new gear whatever you decide on, and remember the kit is only as good as the person behind the lens!
 
@wardy07
Exactly, I say this all the time. Your camera records the image but it's you that makes the photo!
Those that I have spoken to all say similar, that the days of the DSLR are numbered and it's only a matter of time. I think it's very similar to when digital first came along and many where saying, and rightly so at the time, that the quality wasn't there and that it will never be better than film.
 
@SsSsSsSsSnake
Just found a buyer for my 7D. Unfortunately I've only been a member for a few days so cannot list in the classifieds until 60 days, so will try Gumtree first to avoid eBay fees.
 
I must say I've found this thread amusing. Until someone can look at a photograph and tell what kind of camera was used its all just 'p***ing in the wind' . A good picture is a good picture! Mirrorless or DSLR are all capable of good pictures........the person behind the camera is the handicap! Rather than arguing, better be taking pictures and improving the images you take! Seen some great pictures taken on iphones........so what's the arguement! The subject/composition are as or more important than what camera was used. IMHO
 
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I must say I've found this thread amusing. Until someone can look at a photograph and tell what kind of camera was used its all just 'p***ing in the wind' . A good picture is a good picture! Mirrorless or DSLR are all capable of good pictures........the person behind the camera is the handicap! Rather than arguing, better be taking pictures and improving the images you take! Seen some great pictures taken on iphones........so what's the arguement! The subject/composition are as or more important than what camera was used. IMHO
I agree to an extent, a good picture is a good picture but its usually only the good ones we see. I could show you a sequence of 10 shots taken with an xpro 2 I loaned and shot a bride walking up a dark candle lit aisle. all 10 miseed focus. and yes before anyone says it it most probably was user error :-)
compairing an amazing fuji shot to an amazing canon shot or even iphone is pointless, lets see all the shots that were camera cock ups and that would help measure them up against each other.
 
I was primarily a Nikon DSLR shooter... D700, D750 & D4S, but recently bought a Fuji X-T2 with 23mm f/2 & 56mm f/1.2.

I personally love the EVF (would never buy a camera again without one) - much better for manual focusing and being able to see the histogram as I take the picture is another plus. For me there are so many advantages using an EVF over an OVF that I could never go back. I also love the sharpness wide open. With Nikon primes I can never use them consistently wide open without CA and especially front/back focus issues - with the Fuji I can happily shoot at f/1.2, there's hardly any noticeable CA and bang... the focus is spot on where I placed it. No more front/back focus issues, which was the main reason I bought into mirrorless as I was sick of using fast primes stepped down. Another plus is I also now have the option to shoot wide open in very good light by having a max 1/32000 sync with the electronic shutter - something a DSLR can never manage with max 1/8000 sync. For me DSLR still does the job but mirrorless has far more potential.

I'm mainly a street shooter who shoots at wide apertures so focus accuracy is my number 1 priority. As I only shoot with fast primes I can keep ISO levels low, so noise from a crop sensor isn't an issue for me. I personally think my X-T2 is way better than any of my Nikon's for street shooting and it's also great for portraits. The only downside with the Fuji is much weaker battery life, raw files don't edit as well as I'd like (so I shoot in jpeg), less shallow dof and imo it's not suited to sports or fast moving subjects (especially from a handling side). The focus is fast enough (no worse than any of my Nikons) but I will say the Fuji is the more accurate. I'm actually astonished at how sharp the Fuji primes are wide open, no Nikon prime I've ever used comes close wide open. I've had pro's tell me the 56mm f/1.2 is not a lens for street shooting or moving subjects until I've sent them examples proving differently. Yes it misses the odd shot but so does every other camera. The Fuji X-T2 very much reminds me of my FF Nikon D700 for street shooting, very similar deep contrasts and warm tones which is the appearance I like for street shots.

I haven't experienced the artefacts others have, but sometimes have seen the waxy skin tone, however I find it depends on the light/scene and it's not a big problem. I have the luxury of being able to keep my Nikons for when I need them, but for street shooting the Fuji is my number 1 go to camera. I will likely invest further into the Fuji system while doing the opposite with my Nikon gear.
 
I must say I've found this thread amusing. Until someone can look at a photograph and tell what kind of camera was used its all just 'p***ing in the wind' . A good picture is a good picture! Mirrorless or DSLR are all capable of good pictures........the person behind the camera is the handicap! Rather than arguing, better be taking pictures and improving the images you take! Seen some great pictures taken on iphones........so what's the arguement! The subject/composition are as or more important than what camera was used. IMHO

A Ferrari is a Ferrari and a Nova a Nova.
Both get you from A to Z :D
One is old decades old technology, the other modern, both take pictures yes but it's how you get those photos and the ease that sometimes matters along with all the other advantages of mirrorless.
Give me one real advantage the best comparable DSLR has over its mirrorless rival?
 
A Ferrari is a Ferrari and a Nova a Nova.
Both get you from A to Z :D
One is old decades old technology, the other modern, both take pictures yes but it's how you get those photos and the ease that sometimes matters along with all the other advantages of mirrorless.
Give me one real advantage the best comparable DSLR has over its mirrorless rival?
So you would pick a modern Vauxhall over an old Ferrari?
 
If you're going to compare modern against older technology, the brand disparity is unnecessary. Would you choose a modern Ford mustang over a `69 fastback?
Latest technology doesn't always make something better.

I wasn't comparing a 1980's DSLR with a 2017 mirrorless, the fact is that modern DSLR's use old technology which isn't innovation at all, Canon don't really use cutting edge sensors and this thread highlights some key areas which people wanted progress in.
Bringing the thread more back on topic I'm sure Canon will sell loads but I don't see any real progress within Canon right now, nor Nikon too..... they are just Nova's in new modern cloths lol :D
 
A Ferrari is a Ferrari and a Nova a Nova.
Both get you from A to Z :D
One is old decades old technology, the other modern, both take pictures yes but it's how you get those photos and the ease that sometimes matters along with all the other advantages of mirrorless.
Give me one real advantage the best comparable DSLR has over its mirrorless rival?

The car analogy is a good one I think - for some it's as much about the journey as it is getting to the final destination.

Personally I love my mirrorless as much for the knobs and dials as much as for the output. It's probably not rational, and more an emotional connection to my first camera (OM1), but the tactile aspects matter to me.

I think as a workhorse, a top end DSLR with the support of the vast array of specialist lenses, many options of workflow tuned to work with the images and so on are great. Let's face it, if the technology was good enough 10, 20 years ago for these to produce reliable output (even if based on film), the physics of the world hasn't changed, so no need for the tech to.

Mirrorless approaches the problems from a different direction, and the gap in terms of output is now narrow to negligible in some areas, perhaps even better in some, but for some - it's not all about the output :-)
 
I think it's a very interesting time, personally I like the Nikon brand and hope nobody ends up losing out, I'm pro-mirrorless yes but Nikon and Canon are very powerful as a brand.
Competition is healthy and good for us.
 
Technology moves on. And companies need to move with it to survive at the top level.
All the research money and development is along the mirrorless vector.
However a vast majority of the best cameras that people actually use, will be in the Dslr camp for some time to come.
But they are also using heritage technology.
In terms of mature systems Dslrs are way ahead but fulling back as mirrorless fills in the gaps in their systems.

It is no longer a matter of if mirrorless is better, it is a question of when they will dominate the market place.
Dslrs have reached the peak of their development and further progress is extremely limited in scope.
Mirrorless has already caught up, and in many areas is already superior, and it is still only at the ealy stages of its development. With masses of progress still to come.

In terms of results, there is almost nothing between the best of either system. However for some one building up a new system, going forward, there would seem to be only one reasonable choice.

Mirror cameras have been under development since the late 1800's the are a purely mechanical technology, we are now into a mature electronic age. There is no chance at all that history can be reversed.

What ever reactionary Brexiteers might believe. It is not possible to advance into the past.
 
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