Thomas Heaton

Just started on a huge rebuild on my MGB with the goal of a month long tour of the Alps, Dolomites and Northern Italian Lakes next September to celebrate my 60th birthday.

Lots of hard work ahead but if I can pull it off I will be well suited.
 
I have to say that, as a beginner, I find his videos quite inspiring. He has a realxed presentation style and comes across as a genuine and friendly bloke. I also like the music, it seems to fit very well. Cheers Thomas, great stuff and please keep up the good work.
 
smr said:
I'm a bit surprised that both tours for Patagonia in 2019 sold out in 15 minutes. I was just curious to see what kind of itinerary and prices were like. I'm a bit surprised because of the price, they say it's competitively priced which I'm sure it is but that's a lot of money to spend on a photography tour.

Is it not easy enough to just book a flight to Patagonia and trek alone taking photos? Or is not as simple as that?
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To be honest he's not the first and won't be the last in the latest trend of photographers offering workshops in places they know little or nothing about. His first video he confessed to never having visited Patagonia yet was leading the workshop. The reality is he was probably assisting the other two who had been there previously - but personally I think it's unprofessional to offer workshops in places you have no knowledge or research of (or at least give the impression you are running one), but then if you can sell it and have the front to do it, crack on I guess, if there's folk willing to pay for it. To answer your point though, I'm not surprised they sell out so quick as I suspect some people's motivations for going on a workshop with Heaton/Van Son are probably a bit different from what you'd expect from someone going on a typical workshop, otherwise they'd have gone with far better/more experienced photographers at probably far less cost.

ecoleman said:
Does anybody think Brendan Van Son is a good photographer? I’ve watched a few of his videos and I think his images are pretty mediocre at best.
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His images serve a purpose for it's intended market, the casual viewer on YouTube
 
SFTPhotography said:
Sounds grim IMHO. I personally feel places like this are best enjoyed alone.
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I generally like to take pics alone too, but going somewhere so far outside of Europe like Patagonia, as someone who doesn't drive over such a large area, going with a group of people appeals. Otherwise too much time could be spent getting to only one or two locations during the whole trip. Going with a few pro photographers would surely increase the chances of getting many good images from the trip as they will have hopefully done scouting ahead for photo locations. Add to that their experience, and that you are hopefully learning from them too, and it sounds like a potentially good experience.

Saying that, these things are generally too expensive for me. ;) If someone is popular enough to be able to attract 6-12+ people to go on their workshops/trips, then good luck to them. :clap: If the workshops are particularly bad, word would probably get out about them, especially in the internet age. If they go well, then they sell out quickly. ;) And it is up to the individual whether the cost is too much.

Having got a smart TV recently, and so watching Youtube more because it is so easy now, I've found Thomas Heaton's one of the best so far. Some others have irritating personality traits, and/or they are trying to sell something all the time above and beyond any channel sponsorship they may have.

As an aside, in the first two months of getting the new TV, watching more Youtube and a few 4k films along with my normal internet usage, and I apparently used 755GB of data, :eek: so Virgin informed me. :LOL:
 
I suspect the advantage of a workshop, camaraderie aside, is that you have relatively low effort while still being sure of seeing the key photographic sites. We have done a mix of guided exploration type holidays and self-organised trips, and it can be very enjoyable to just present yourself after breakfast each morning and be assured that your day will proceed in a pleasurable fashion where all you need to do is have fun and see new things in an otherwise challenging culture. I plan to self-organise our next trip to India, but that will be less uncomfortable because I've already done a guided trip there.
 
redhed17 said:
I generally like to take pics alone too, but going somewhere so far outside of Europe like Patagonia, as someone who doesn't drive over such a large area, going with a group of people appeals. Otherwise too much time could be spent getting to only one or two locations during the whole trip. Going with a few pro photographers would surely increase the chances of getting many good images from the trip as they will have hopefully done scouting ahead for photo locations. Add to that their experience, and that you are hopefully learning from them too, and it sounds like a potentially good experience.
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Fair play to you - me myself I am confident in covering ground more quickly alone. I like to drive, not fly, so cannot leave Europe for obvious reasons and find getting accross mainland Europe a doddle in the car (Glasgow to Chamonix in a day and nights drive). I am by no means a fast walker, but not a slow one either. All it needs is a dawdler, or the tour guide to drive too slowly (which they will as they'll have some horrid mini bus) and good chances could be missed. There is also a selfish thing - I like my pictures and experiences to be mine, not shared or someone elses. That is a very me thing. I cannot even go on holiday with someone, I have to go alone otherwise I won't enjoy it as I feel it won't be mine.

I do plan places ahead, a hell of a lot of planning goes into my trips and have a huge bucket list of places I want to see do and how to get there.
 
SFTPhotography said:
Fair play to you - me myself I am confident in covering ground more quickly alone. I like to drive, not fly, so cannot leave Europe for obvious reasons and find getting accross mainland Europe a doddle in the car (Glasgow to Chamonix in a day and nights drive). I am by no means a fast walker, but not a slow one either. All it needs is a dawdler, or the tour guide to drive too slowly (which they will as they'll have some horrid mini bus) and good chances could be missed. There is also a selfish thing - I like my pictures and experiences to be mine, not shared or someone elses. That is a very me thing. I cannot even go on holiday with someone, I have to go alone otherwise I won't enjoy it as I feel it won't be mine.

I do plan places ahead, a hell of a lot of planning goes into my trips and have a huge bucket list of places I want to see do and how to get there.
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That's a bit extreme covering the distance in 24 hours... when is your next driving trip again? :D
 
SFTPhotography said:
Sounds grim IMHO. I personally feel places like this are best enjoyed alone.
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I did a workshop with ian Cameron some years back and it definitely wasn't grim - interesting to engage not just with the professional leading the group but also the other members. I had got quite set in my way of thinking and definitely got a bit of a jolt that widened my approach a bit.

That said - I've come to the (sad?) conclusion that I prefer to go out alone - it's not just about hauling a camera and a tripod about a wet moor looking for some foreground interest and figuring how long it will take the clouds to shift to where you want them - it's about being there and having as much time as it takes to appreciate it all. While it's frustrating as an amateur that you can't make enough time to do it that often - not being a professional means that when you do get the time there are no demands or pressures either.
 
Dryce said:
I did a workshop with ian Cameron some years back and it definitely wasn't grim - interesting to engage not just with the professional leading the group but also the other members. I had got quite set in my way of thinking and definitely got a bit of a jolt that widened my approach a bit.

That said - I've come to the (sad?) conclusion that I prefer to go out alone - it's not just about hauling a camera and a tripod about a wet moor looking for some foreground interest and figuring how long it will take the clouds to shift to where you want them - it's about being there and having as much time as it takes to appreciate it all. While it's frustrating as an amateur that you can't make enough time to do it that often - not being a professional means that when you do get the time there are no demands or pressures either.
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Ian Cameron is probably the best landscape photographer in the world. I’m glad you enjoyed his workshop. I often just look at his pictures which I rarely do with other photographers.

That said a group holiday thing wouldn’t work for me. I’m very set in my thinking as a photographer and a person. I know what I like and like what I know. I also really know what I don’t like and one of them is being in groups of people and being squeezed into a minibus or the back of a small car. Pictures wise, well you know me...

There’s definitely a market for group photo tours but there is also one for 121 workshops. On a 121 you can really dedicate the time to that one persons needs and wants and they tend to have the confidence to ask questions they might not otherwise ask infront of a group of strangers - particularly if they themselves are quite new to photography and have a slightly more timid personality.

Ian Cameron is about the only photographer I’d part with my own money to go out with - but I’d go 121 to maximise my time with him and not share it with anyone else.

Some folk say I’m a selfish **** and I’m ok with that, because I am.
 
SFTPhotography said:
That said a group holiday thing wouldn’t work for me. I’m very set in my thinking as a photographer and a person. I know what I like and like what I know. I also really know what I don’t like and one of them is being in groups of people and being squeezed into a minibus or the back of a small car. Pictures wise, well you know me...

Some folk say I’m a selfish **** and I’m ok with that, because I am.
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I think you have to be quite selfish to be successful. Definitely when I shoot with others my productivity goes down because it becomes more of a social event rather than concentrating only on getting the pictures. Having the freedom to go out when you want or need is important to get the photos, that can put relationships at risk especially for those with families. I imagine workshops would be quite fun if you're trekking up a mountain, a safe way to do it too, but unless the whole group are in agreement I imagine you couldn't quickly change plans like you often want to if the weather isn't doing as expected. Going back to Thomas I'm amazed at the quality of shots he produces considering the effort vlogging takes
 
Scirocco_09 said:
I think you have to be quite selfish to be successful. Definitely when I shoot with others my productivity goes down because it becomes more of a social event rather than concentrating only on getting the pictures. Having the freedom to go out when you want or need is important to get the photos, that can put relationships at risk especially for those with families. I imagine workshops would be quite fun if you're trekking up a mountain, a safe way to do it too, but unless the whole group are in agreement I imagine you couldn't quickly change plans like you often want to if the weather isn't doing as expected. Going back to Thomas I'm amazed at the quality of shots he produces considering the effort vlogging takes
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I find this too. You always have this "I'm holding them up" thought in the back of your mind when shooting with others and it's a massive distraction. I'm happy to go on a photo walk with others but I know I won't get the best photos I can take and so the actual photography is second to hanging out with other photographers.
 
ecoleman said:
Does anybody think Brendan Van Son is a good photographer? I’ve watched a few of his videos and I think his images are pretty mediocre at best.
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Funnily enough, I was saying just that to an acquaintance on instagram the other day, his videos are fairly informative and he gets to some cool locations... but I've always found his images to be a bit "meh"

He talks a lot about his settings, and filters and gear etc, which I'm sure is informative for a lot of people, but his images still look largely like tourist snapshots to me. Saying that, I'm sure he loves my photography too :)
 
ashtennisguru said:
Funnily enough, I was saying just that to an acquaintance on instagram the other day, his videos are fairly informative and he gets to some cool locations... but I've always found his images to be a bit "meh"

He talks a lot about his settings, and filters and gear etc, which I'm sure is informative for a lot of people, but his images still look largely like tourist snapshots to me. Saying that, I'm sure he loves my photography too :)
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I like him every now and then. He did a video recently about stock photography, and was very informative imho. He claimed to be making good money from stock photography, so whilst his images may not all be stunning, he seems to be making some money with them. Which is more than I am doing with mine. :( ;) :LOL:
 
ashtennisguru said:
@redhed17 - yes, I found that one quite interesting too and it inspired me to put some images up on stock sites just on the off chance... somebody clearly rates his work as he seems to get comissions quite regularly, which as you say is more than I do!
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I think if you put his work in the context of how he sells it, it makes more sense - he's not an epic landscape photographer making fine art prints and selling calendars, rather he sells images to travel magazines and stuff.

Also I'm extremely jealous of his life style so even though his images aren't the best, I like to watch his videos :)
 
LojikDub said:
I think if you put his work in the context of how he sells it, it makes more sense - he's not an epic landscape photographer making fine art prints and selling calendars, rather he sells images to travel magazines and stuff.

Also I'm extremely jealous of his life style so even though his images aren't the best, I like to watch his videos :)
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:agree: He's clearly in tune with his chosen markets and shoots to meet their needs.

GC
 
SFTPhotography said:
Ian Cameron is probably the best landscape photographer in the world. I’m glad you enjoyed his workshop. I often just look at his pictures which I rarely do with other photographers.

That said a group holiday thing wouldn’t work for me. I’m very set in my thinking as a photographer and a person. I know what I like and like what I know. I also really know what I don’t like and one of them is being in groups of people and being squeezed into a minibus or the back of a small car. Pictures wise, well you know me...

There’s definitely a market for group photo tours but there is also one for 121 workshops. On a 121 you can really dedicate the time to that one persons needs and wants and they tend to have the confidence to ask questions they might not otherwise ask infront of a group of strangers - particularly if they themselves are quite new to photography and have a slightly more timid personality.

Ian Cameron is about the only photographer I’d part with my own money to go out with - but I’d go 121 to maximise my time with him and not share it with anyone else.

Some folk say I’m a selfish **** and I’m ok with that, because I am.
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I'm a fan of Ian and have done a few of his workshops, I'll probably do another when we move back to the uk to enjoy exploring a new area of Scotland and I find it helpful to get a prompt on different perspectives from a knowleadgable person.

Wrt Thomas Heaton he's making a product that people seem to enjoy, seems a genuine and likeable chap and is making a living from it, good luck to him. I don't agree that you have to be an artistic purist of some sort, exhibiting in the Louvre or such to be worthy of making a living from photography.

I'm not a professional but it seems that the world of social media has changed how the photography industry works, for better and worse, but it has and it's here to stay, there are people who produce a product which is successful in that space, well done. I think he produces some nice images and some mediocre ones, like we all do. I guess when you are putting out content every week you have to show it all, warts and all, most of us have the option to hide away our poorer images from our viewing public.
 
I haven’t read the whole thread, but just wanted to post my support for Thomas and his work. He’s one of 4(?) photographers I subscribe to on YouTube. I’ve learnt a few tips from his videos too.
 
Stumbled on Thomas recently, his videos are very watchable. Nigel Danson does a slightly better job at focusing on sharing tips and techniques imho. If I could put 60% of what I've leaned from these two chaps into practice in the field I'd be in good shape...

I don't know how they pull off decent photography while doing a tutorial and flying a drone! The production values of their videos is immense.
 
danny_bhoy said:
I've followed him for ages and love his YouTube stuff (which just seems to getting better and going from strength to strength with every episode).

I'm also shooting his upcoming wedding too! Nervous times shooting for such a talented photographer! :)
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No pressure Danny :LOL: I am sure he will point you in the right direction. He started as a wedding photographer I believe.

GG
 
Regular viewer of his, I intend on buying his ebook soon!
 
Have you not got a free trial of Amazon available to read it free? I wasn't overly impressed by the book. Felt there was the odd story that could have been great like when he was on safari but it was all lacklustre and felt like it jumped about all over the place. He was going to do multiple books but then compressed it to one. I think that's where the jumping comes in. Also the reviews are in my opinion are mostly fans that aren't critiquing the book for what it actually is but instead for who he is. I hope you enjoy it though.
 
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smr said:
I've only just discovered his youtube channel and watched, I'd say, about 6-7 of his videos. He is a breath of fresh air compared to photography channels that I have been watching and subscribe to already such as Northrup, TobyRec etc. whilst I enjoy their channels they are different... Heaton's is totally different in that it's the first I've discovered where he takes you with him on trips and it's not all about gear.
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Might be worth giving these guys a look as they are both quirky, fun and do excellent images while taking you 'along' with them.

Mads Peter Iversen
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrWU2BpF6zvRFnkYHDDYHDg/videos

Nev Cartledge
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuu2x6nteWZ6gvLr6iadOOA/videos



gremlin16 said:
The video conference he did with the Northrop’s was hard to watch. I think TH didn’t feel too comfortable.
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I think it is easy to find the Northrups a bit too much... I find their glossy self confidence intimidating. I have seen a few of their videos and sometimes they say quite odd things too.


YoshiK1 said:
[VW camper van loan] They did give him one.....a loan of one.....which he pimped out in one of his videos around Scotland. They used and abused him and got the marketing they needed from him for little cost to them. In the grand scheme of things, giving him one probably wouldn't be worth the £50,000+ compared to the equivalent money spent in a proper campaign as he doesn't have that many followers.
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It would not actually have cost VW £50,000 to sponsor him with a camper van. They are the manufacturer so would only 'pay' cost to build, no dealers commission etc. VW could probably get some kind of tax benefit back on it and could also sell it at the end of the loan period for a good 2nd hand price or sold it to him at a discount at the end of the deal. I bet it would have cost them less than £20,000 overall, which would I suspect be a small amount of their yearly marketing budget. Maybe they offered him a deal but he did not like to be a walking advert or restricted in any way by the rules of a company contract? The plus of getting his own van designed is that it exactly fits his personal requirements



smr said:
I'm a bit surprised that both tours for Patagonia in 2019 sold out in 15 minutes. I was just curious to see what kind of itinerary and prices were like. I'm a bit surprised because of the price, they say it's competitively priced which I'm sure it is but that's a lot of money to spend on a photography tour.
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Have looked at his other tour details and the basic fees for holiday workshops do not always include flights or accommodation.but can include camping equipment, vehicles, food and local human guides as well as tuition.

I think people like to buy a 'name' or a self image and 'exclusiveness' and Thomas Heaton can be seen as providing a service that fits into that. He is quite high profile plus he seems a nice bloke to hang out with. Also to be honest, at those prices you would (if you could afford £4000 plus other costs) feel as if you were hanging out with the 'same kind' of people as yourself'.

A friend of a friend was checking out a South Pole trip at £9000 per person. At these sort of prices you know you are going to be meeting other well healed people, that you have some kind of 'lifestyle' in common other than just photographic interests. Not saying thats good, just saying its what many people look for. Despite what is said, the UK is not the only country/population with an interest in class and social position.

Heaton seems a nice decent bloke and I wish him the best. If he can get £4000 per person, all the best to him. He must have a lot of the year when his income is much lower.
 
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YoshiK1 said:
Have you not got a free trial of Amazon available to read it free? I wasn't overly impressed by the book. Felt there was the odd story that could have been great like when he was on safari but it was all lacklustre and felt like it jumped about all over the place. He was going to do multiple books but then compressed it to one. I think that's where the jumping comes in. Also the reviews are in my opinion are mostly fans that aren't critiquing the book for what it actually is but instead for who he is. I hope you enjoy it though.
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TBH I'd rather buy it to support him. Its 3 quid, which is nothing in the grand scheme of things. I'd pay more than that to Starbucks every day when I lived in the UK. I've not checked the reviews either. I like his content, and just fancied buying it :)
 
LojikDub said:
I think if you put his work in the context of how he sells it, it makes more sense - he's not an epic landscape photographer making fine art prints and selling calendars, rather he sells images to travel magazines and stuff.

Also I'm extremely jealous of his life style so even though his images aren't the best, I like to watch his videos :)
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WRT Brendan Van Son, I came to his channel from his first collaboration with Thomas Heaton and enjoyed his videos.
He's always been open about his business, and used to do monthly videos detailing where he made money and how. He was never about making money selling fine art prints and has admitted that he's not the best landscape photographer and that he does consider some to be better than him.
Sure some of his images look touristy, but that's part of his business, in some cases it's assignments for the tourism industry and others, it's commissions for magazines or for stock.
That said his images are still better than many of mine, but he's been doing it longer.

As for whether their workshops are worth it, they are on the expensive side if you're looking at the Patagonia/Alps trips, but Brendan has recently run cheaper workshops in Crete that were only a couple of hundred quid and Thomas has been running a couple of UK based workshops that are cheaper. Their worth to you depends on what you want to get from it. For some it's the combination of the chance to go to a new place, to go to locations you might not find otherwise, the chance to get some instruction from a more experienced photographer, for others it's just the chance to be in a group with other photographers.
For both the Patagonia and Alps trips, BvS and TH did have guides with local knowledge and they had been to some of the locations before, so you would benefit from that aspect.

There's still plenty of places in the UK that I would like to explore and shoot, so I definitely enjoy their videos where they explore the UK, but I do like seeing other places around the world for inspiration.
 
I have watched a few of his videos on YouTube and do subscribe to his channel. But there was one video he did that answered all I need to know about landscape photography. It's not a video of him in an exotic location or an early morning mountain side location, it was just him in his office. In it he describes what is it that makes a good landscape photo, i can't remember the exact words he said, but what I took away after watching was, subject, composition and light. Camera settings were simple, anything between f/8-11, a shutter speed to freeze or show motion and a tripod.
 
Some points picked up on:

1) Workshop price. This will always be a bone contention for people. How much is too much? Are you getting value for money etc. One thing that I saw on the Patagonia vlog this year was one of their clients wading through a raging river that flowed into the sea. What on earth were they thinking by letting the client do that and then vlogging it for the world to see their actions!

2) The leader not knowing the location. Well, he wouldn't be the first! Personally, when I offer a workshop I make sure that I know where I'm going as much as possible. Next year I'm doing one in the Dolomites and it's somewhere that after early November it will have been my 4th visit to the area to nail down locations and gain more knowledge.
Recently, I did see a well known photographer offering workshops in 2 different areas. In each he hadn't been and was using stock photography to sell places for the workshops. I find that daft. But then even the top tour operators such as Light and Land do this. This year they offered a one day workshop in Salisbury with Charlie Waite. NONE of the images advertising the workshop were Charlie's which seems curious to me as he lives about 30 minutes from the city. They used stock photography and in fact two of the images used were mine. One image they used of mine was from a place they aren't likely to get access to. It took me a long time to find out who the landowner was to get the permission to be there. The view was the only place in the city that you get the cathedral spire reflecting in one of the five main rivers.

3) Drone footage and benefiting commercially through YouTube. Will always be a little contentious this as there are rules in place as to whether or not you can earn money from your footage. I was recently given a drone and so I phoned one of the image libraries that represent my stock footage. I asked them about some of the legalities involved and it came back that for them if it's a general landscape scene and the operator isn't flying over buildings; people etc then it's not too much of an easier. However, start flying over the aforementioned subject then buyers get edgy about whether the "pilot" has the appropriate documentation to do so. I'm guilty as charged of flying a drone in Mongolia. But then seeing as I was in the middle of nowhere with, at times, the nearest town being 100km away it was a little difficult to ask anyone.

4) Brendan Van Son's work. Like everyone of us he will produce images that we like and images we don't like. He does have a particular style and he produces stuff I like and can pass on. He did a cool shot in Japan earlier this year with a long exposure while he stood still and crowds passed by. One of his signature shots. I've also met Brendan earlier this year and he is definitely a nice guy and good to talk to.
 
Julian Elliott said:
Some points picked up on:

1) Workshop price. This will always be a bone contention for people. How much is too much? Are you getting value for money etc. One thing that I saw on the Patagonia vlog this year was one of their clients wading through a raging river that flowed into the sea. What on earth were they thinking by letting the client do that and then vlogging it for the world to see their actions!
.
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If you are going to criticise someone at least be factually correct, the raging torrent was in fact the incoming tide washing over the dirt road creating a pool on the other side. The road was effectively the beach and at high tide the water covered the road. If you watch the video the van is parked next to the point he walks through the water. for reference it the Traveling to Pategonia video and is shown in the opening sequence and 9.30 into the video. It took a 30 second search to find the video.
Im pretty sure that you participate in the trip at your own risk just as i have when attending a fell top photography walk, guided mountain bike trips and attending motor racing events.
Whilst the guide/leader has a responsibility not to put you in harms way they cant be held responsible for the individual actions.

I have enjoyed Heatons videos, some are informative some not so much but all are shot extremely well.
 
AgentOrange76 said:
If you are going to criticise someone at least be factually correct, the raging torrent was in fact the incoming tide washing over the dirt road creating a pool on the other side. The road was effectively the beach and at high tide the water covered the road. If you watch the video the van is parked next to the point he walks through the water. for reference it the Traveling to Pategonia video and is shown in the opening sequence and 9.30 into the video. It took a 30 second search to find the video.
Im pretty sure that you participate in the trip at your own risk just as i have when attending a fell top photography walk, guided mountain bike trips and attending motor racing events.
Whilst the guide/leader has a responsibility not to put you in harms way they cant be held responsible for the individual actions.

I have enjoyed Heatons videos, some are informative some not so much but all are shot extremely well.
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We shall see when a lawyer comes knocking at a door when something happens to a client on a workshop. Whether the "participate at your own risk" line holds up or not. But what do I know...
 
Julian Elliott said:
We shall see when a lawyer comes knocking at a door when something happens to a client on a workshop. Whether the "participate at your own risk" line holds up or not. But what do I know...
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Well, if I’d paid you £4K to attend one of your workshops and you tried to tell me what I can and can’t do, I’d tell you to get knotted.
 
ecoleman said:
Well, if I’d paid you £4K to attend one of your workshops and you tried to tell me what I can and can’t do, I’d tell you to get knotted.
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I think you have to look at this from a "professional" point of view. You have to remember that if you pay someone money for a workshop or tour that the leader has a certain responsibility to those people.

Tell me this. If we were on a workshop and I said to you that you must do something as it could endanger your life then you go and do it thinking that you know best and then something happens. What would you do?

This gung ho attitude from some quarters is not good.

In any case I suspect that this is going to be one of those agree to disagree situations.
 
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Julian Elliott said:
I think you have to look at this from a "professional" point of view. You have to remember that if you pay someone money for a workshop or tour that the leader has a certain responsibility to those people.

Tell me this. If we were on a workshop and I said to you that you must do something as it could endanger your life then you go and do it thinking that you know best and then something happens. What would you do?

This gung ho attitude from some quarters is not good.

In any case I suspect that this is going to be one of those agree to disagree situations.
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Your asking the wrong person. I’m from the age where I take responsibility for my own actions. I’m all grown up and don’t need somebody holding my hand and I don’t lay blame where there is non.

At the end of the day, if I chose to do something stupid while attending your workshop, you wouldn’t be able to stop me. There are plenty of activities where you have to sign a waiver to say you do so at your own risk and I’m sure this is no different with photography workshops (not just Thomas Heaton). Im sure that even you have such terms.

At the end of the day you may be able to advise that somebody doesn’t do somethingbut you have no control over whether or not they will do as you say.
 
ecoleman said:
Your asking the wrong person. I’m from the age where I take responsibility for my own actions. I’m all grown up and don’t need somebody holding my hand and I don’t lay blame where there is non.

At the end of the day, if I chose to do something stupid while attending your workshop, you wouldn’t be able to stop me. There are plenty of activities where you have to sign a waiver to say you do so at your own risk and I’m sure this is no different with photography workshops (not just Thomas Heaton). Im sure that even you have such terms.

At the end of the day you may be able to advise that somebody doesn’t do somethingbut you have no control over whether or not they will do as you say.
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If you die on a workshop, even through your own stupidity, the organisers may still be sued.
 
Julian Elliott said:
I think you have to look at this from a "professional" point of view. You have to remember that if you pay someone money for a workshop or tour that the leader has a certain responsibility to those people.

Tell me this. If we were on a workshop and I said to you that you must do something as it could endanger your life then you go and do it thinking that you know best and then something happens. What would you do?

This gung ho attitude from some quarters is not good.

In any case I suspect that this is going to be one of those agree to disagree situations.
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There is no evidence in the video that an organiser told the guy to walk through the water, in fact the opposite indicates it was the persons own choice. Regardless it was no more risk than paddling at bright beach.

I totally agree that group leaders have an obligation to participant safety, it would be irresponsible to place a person in danger but that isnt the case in the video you mention
 
AgentOrange76 said:
There is no evidence in the video that an organiser told the guy to walk through the water, in fact the opposite indicates it was the persons own choice. Regardless it was no more risk than paddling at bright beach.

I totally agree that group leaders have an obligation to participant safety, it would be irresponsible to place a person in danger but that isnt the case in the video you mention
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What the video shows is that the guy decided to wade through of his own accord. However they really should stop him from doing it. That is my own opinion as I personally believe that as a leader you have a duty of care to your paying clients.

What happens if something DID happen to the guy even if it was his own decision? If memory serves the client was an American and I’m sure you know how the legal system can be over there.

If you watch Brendan’s version he describes the water as being waist deep so hardly paddling.
 
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ancient_mariner said:
Hopefully if they charge £4000pp then they'll have paid for some really good indemnity insurance too. :D
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You have to renew it yearly - a claim for a death will almost certainly a) make you uninsurable b) the reputational damage would put you out of business.

In mine safety comes before pictures and I don’t want a workshop ending in a hospital trip or worse.

Some people can be quite unfamiliar with the outdoors and do remarkably daft things. You’re there to help them - and that goes beyond settings and composition.
 
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