This should be interesting

TVRTim

TVRTim

Suspended / Banned
Messages
1,012
Name
Tim
Edit My Images
Yes
Interesting on several levels.

On 31st December 2022 I purchased an Olympus omd em1 mk3 from ebay, advertised as brand new in a sealed box. It duly arrived a few days later, bolted on a 12-40 pro and off I went, happy days.

I do not shoot at small apetures so stuck to f2.8 to f4 max, all good. When I was editing some images a few weeks later I noticed a small mark in the top rh side corner of my images that had a lot of sky in them. b****r I thought, a dust bunny. Tried to dislodge it with a rocket blower but no luck, bought an Arctic Butterfly, still no luck. Hmm something more than dust then.

Bought a visible dust wet cleaning kit (rolls up sleeves) and get cleaning, double b****r, it's still not shifting.

On with my magnifiers and led lighting and had a proper look, when I offered up a corner of the cleaning swab I could not touch the mark, took me several seconds to realise that the mark appears to be under the surface of the sensor, triple b****r.

If I'm correct then it's a manufacturing fault, I have registered the camera with Olympus / OMD Systems and they tell me that it's within the warranty period and I have initiated a repair claim (waqiting to hear from them as I type) I have also claimed via ebay and once again I'm waiting to hear from them.

So it will be interesting to see who does what, if the worst happens and both parties blow me off then I shall continue to use it as editing out the mark is the work of a few seconds, nothing more.

It will just annoy me on an ownership level as I take really good care of my kit irrespective of what it is, plus the resale value will be fairly low.
 
I’d be very surprised if Olympus honour a warranty claim for an item bought on eBay, but I hope eBay sorts it (y)
 
snerkler said:
I’d be very surprised if Olympus honour a warranty claim for an item bought on eBay, but I hope eBay sorts it (y)
Click to expand...
depends on the seller as the likes of SRS do sell on e.bay as well and are registered sellers of olympus
 
the easiest way to check a sensor is with a LOUPE
This is mine

P1051378.JPG
 
the black fox said:
depends on the seller as the likes of SRS do sell on e.bay as well and are registered sellers of olympus
Click to expand...
Well I had a response from the seller and they will only send me a copy of the invoice so no real help there, Ebay do not appear to be interested but I will continue to pester them and nothing back yet from OMD.

As far as I can make out from OMD's website a repair might only cost just over 200 pounds so I may well investigate that route.
 
TVRTim said:
Well I had a response from the seller and they will only send me a copy of the invoice so no real help there, Ebay do not appear to be interested but I will continue to pester them and nothing back yet from OMD.

As far as I can make out from OMD's website a repair might only cost just over 200 pounds so I may well investigate that route.
Click to expand...
Was the seller a private individual or a store?
 
TVRTim said:
Well I had a response from the seller and they will only send me a copy of the invoice so no real help there, Ebay do not appear to be interested but I will continue to pester them and nothing back yet from OMD.

As far as I can make out from OMD's website a repair might only cost just over 200 pounds so I may well investigate that route.
Click to expand...
You will need that copy of the invoice if it does go back to olympus ,as proof of purchase whether or not there a listed retailer …
 
the black fox said:
You will need that copy of the invoice if it does go back to olympus ,as proof of purchase whether or not there a listed retailer …
Click to expand...
Yes that's what I thought, the OMD website asks for an invoice.
 
TVRTim said:
The seller was bsfelectronics based in Manchester, just online by the looks of it.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure I bought a scope from them last year arrived broken . Think they deal in shop seconds .. personally I would push for a return - refund.

If my memory serves me rightly the mkiii had a whole batch of these with a smudge between sensor and protection glass initially .. there was a hell of a fuss about it at the time and I believe there was either a recall or it was a service centre replacement job .. someone will get the facts for you
 
Last edited:
The only time I've seen this is with a Panasonic GM5. The repairer I contacted said that at one time this was a problem with Panasonic sensors as they weren't sealed well. I can't remember how much the repair cost but it might have been in the region of £160 which I thought was reasonable.

Hope you get it sorted Tim.
 
the black fox said:
Pretty sure I bought a scope from them last year arrived broken . Think they deal in shop seconds .. personally I would push for a return - refund.

If my memory serves me rightly the mkiii had a whole batch of these with a smudge between sensor and protection glass initially .. there was a hell of a fuss about it at the time and I believe there was either a recall or it was a service centre replacement job .. someone will get the facts for you
Click to expand...
Give that man a coconut, googled mk3 sensor issues and came up with a slew of information, looks like the problem appeared in early 2021 and was indeed debris between the sensor layers.
 
TVRTim said:
Give that man a coconut, googled mk3 sensor issues and came up with a slew of information, looks like the problem appeared in early 2021 and was indeed debris between the sensor layers.
Click to expand...
You might get lucky then as the fault would have been present at manufacturer and will usually be fixed FOC regardless of warranty status. I had a 6 year old Macbook screen replaced as there was a known issue despite mine being fine. Then again as Olympus are no longer in the camera market they might not care about reputation.
 
Well I have had this response from the retailer,

Hi Tim, We sold and sent you a brand new eletronic item 2 months ago, we sell items with 14 days cooling off period. If you believe the item has developed a fault you need to contact the manufacturer Olympus. It is common practice to contact manufacturer not the retailer for electronics like apple, samsung.... Thanks, Ralph

I responded to the above pointing out that the Consumer rights act makes it clear that the onus is on the retailer and not the manufacturer, I cannot at this time ask for a refund as more than 30 days have passed, I can however ask for an exact or equivilant replacement or for the item to be repaired. If the retailer fails to accomodate either one of those choices then I am entitled to a full refund. Getting it would be another thing altogether I fear. Small claims court?
 
TVRTim said:
Well I have had this response from the retailer,

Hi Tim, We sold and sent you a brand new eletronic item 2 months ago, we sell items with 14 days cooling off period. If you believe the item has developed a fault you need to contact the manufacturer Olympus. It is common practice to contact manufacturer not the retailer for electronics like apple, samsung.... Thanks, Ralph

I responded to the above pointing out that the Consumer rights act makes it clear that the onus is on the retailer and not the manufacturer, I cannot at this time ask for a refund as more than 30 days have passed, I can however ask for an exact or equivilant replacement or for the item to be repaired. If the retailer fails to accomodate either one of those choices then I am entitled to a full refund. Getting it would be another thing altogether I fear. Small claims court?
Click to expand...
I didn’t realise (skim read it) that you’d bought it so long ago, so yeah probably needs taking up with the manufacturer. That being said some shops do offer to deal with that side of it for you but I guess if this is an online store only they may not have the resources to do it.
 
snerkler said:
I didn’t realise (skim read it) that you’d bought it so long ago, so yeah probably needs taking up with the manufacturer. That being said some shops do offer to deal with that side of it for you but I guess if this is an online store only they may not have the resources to do it.
Click to expand...
So have OM Sytems taken on all the liability for Olympus products?
 
A further response from the retailer

Our conditions of sale are on the listing, please check. As explained before the warranty is with the manufacturer Olympus, you need to contact them, we are not the manufacturers. If you need a receipt or if Olympus doesnt resolve the issue then you are welcome to contact us. We sell a lot of electronic items like all apple laptops and phones, and samsung products and if an item develops a fault customers contact the manufacturer, not us. Have you contacted Olympus?

My response below

Unfortunately your terms and conditions do not take precedence over the Consumer Rights Act.
Please accept the return and either issue a full refund or replace the camera with another new identical item. Repair is an option but Olympus are no longer a camera manufacturer or retailer, they have sold the business to OM Systems who have no liability as far as I am aware.

Not sure about the liability bit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zx9
TVRTim said:
A further response from the retailer

Our conditions of sale are on the listing, please check. As explained before the warranty is with the manufacturer Olympus, you need to contact them, we are not the manufacturers. If you need a receipt or if Olympus doesnt resolve the issue then you are welcome to contact us. We sell a lot of electronic items like all apple laptops and phones, and samsung products and if an item develops a fault customers contact the manufacturer, not us. Have you contacted Olympus?

My response below

Unfortunately your terms and conditions do not take precedence over the Consumer Rights Act.
Please accept the return and either issue a full refund or replace the camera with another new identical item. Repair is an option but Olympus are no longer a camera manufacturer or retailer, they have sold the business to OM Systems who have no liability as far as I am aware.

Not sure about the liability bit.
Click to expand...
I’d be careful and double check your rights. I don’t know what they are without looking into it but most retailers are aware of the rights and their legal responsibility. I’m not saying they’re not, but just make sure.

I’m pretty sure OM systems are now responsible for Olympus and should honour warranty, but double check.
 
A lot depends on how you paid , if credit card you’re protected . If PayPal not sure but their customer service is first rate and will endeavour to help ,. E.bay are a total waste of space with disputes .. if your on faceberk the olympus uk. Group has David (dax) smith on there who works for OMsystems and might be able to help .. and as a last resort @RedRobin on here I know has the Olympus uk phone numbers
 
TVRTim said:
Well I have had this response from the retailer,

Hi Tim, We sold and sent you a brand new eletronic item 2 months ago, we sell items with 14 days cooling off period. If you believe the item has developed a fault you need to contact the manufacturer Olympus. It is common practice to contact manufacturer not the retailer for electronics like apple, samsung.... Thanks, Ralph

I responded to the above pointing out that the Consumer rights act makes it clear that the onus is on the retailer and not the manufacturer, I cannot at this time ask for a refund as more than 30 days have passed, I can however ask for an exact or equivilant replacement or for the item to be repaired. If the retailer fails to accomodate either one of those choices then I am entitled to a full refund. Getting it would be another thing altogether I fear. Small claims court?
Click to expand...
That's b*****ks, the law clearly states the retailer is responsible for warranty repairs not the manufacturer.
 
imattersuk said:
That's b*****ks, the law clearly states the retailer is responsible for warranty repairs not the manufacturer.
Click to expand...
W/in 6mo of purchase. It's also illegal to mislead a consumer about their rights. I would contact Citizens Advice or an ombudsman.
www.gov.uk

Consumer rights

Consumer protection and rights for goods and services - returning faulty goods, consumer credit, credit and store cards, refunds.
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
 
imattersuk said:
That's b*****ks, the law clearly states the retailer is responsible for warranty repairs not the manufacturer.
Click to expand...
I didn’t realise this but have just looked into it and yep sure enough it’s the retailer who’s responsible.
 
Only trouble with that being there not a authorised dealer so an olympus warranty won’t apply . Only distance selling regulations . The best option is to contact OMsystems who might look on it sympathetically due to the owner might buy lenses etc in the future ,and as it’s a known fault it would be good PR to
 
Surely if its a manufacturing fault you could claim the goods are not of merchantable quality.
That sits squarely on the retailer to deal with it, disclaimers don't trump consumer law.
 
the black fox said:
Only trouble with that being there not a authorised dealer so an olympus warranty won’t apply . Only distance selling regulations . The best option is to contact OMsystems who might look on it sympathetically due to the owner might buy lenses etc in the future ,and as it’s a known fault it would be good PR to
Click to expand...
I don’t know if that matters, reading around online the contract is with the retailer and it’s up to them to fix it, but who knows :thinking:
 
tijuana taxi said:
Surely if its a manufacturing fault you could claim the goods are not of merchantable quality.
That sits squarely on the retailer to deal with it, disclaimers don't trump consumer law.
Click to expand...
Good luck with that from a back street dealer in Manchester .. going down the OMsystem route is probably best ..there pretty good over the brand name problems
 
the black fox said:
Good luck with that from a back street dealer in Manchester .. going down the OMsystem route is probably best ..there pretty good over the brand name problems
Click to expand...
This is why I only buy from reputable stores, that being said they’re bound by the laws like everyone else so if the OP wants to fight it hard enough then then they should get it dealt with.

Looking at the store and online profile it looks like a mobile phone repair shop and don’t even sell cameras so I’d question where they got the camera from and if it was even new.
 
Paid by PayPal? Open a claim with them and share the correspondence from the seller.
 
Well in my opening post I did say this could be interesting :) I have managed to register the camera with Olympus/OM Systems, in fact as a thank you they extended my warranty by 6 months foc.
I have requested a repair (did this yesterday) and I'm now waiting to hear from them, not sure how long this kind of thing takes.

The retailer is adamant that it's not his problem, however I'm pretty confident that legally it is but I will put that on the back burner for the time being and persue the OM repair route and see where that goes.

I did use paypal for the purchase as I like that extra layer of security and I had already considered going down that route if all else fails, I suppose that my last resort would be to report them to trading standards and go legal on them. That does seem a bit harsh when I know that the mark can be cloned out in lightroom but as i said earlier, I have to consider the resale value if and when I move it on as I would have to point out the mark on the sensor to any potential purchaser.
 
TVRTim said:
I did use paypal for the purchase as I like that extra layer of security and I had already considered going down that route if all else fails, I suppose that my last resort would be to report them to trading standards and go legal on them. That does seem a bit harsh when I know that the mark can be cloned out in lightroom but as i said earlier, I have to consider the resale value if and when I move it on as I would have to point out the mark on the sensor to any potential purchaser.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't make any difference to me I'd be wanting a replacement or repair, I wouldn't be happy purchasing a camera to then have to clone things out in post.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zx9
snerkler said:
This is why I only buy from reputable stores, that being said they’re bound by the laws like everyone else so if the OP wants to fight it hard enough then then they should get it dealt with.

Looking at the store and online profile it looks like a mobile phone repair shop and don’t even sell cameras so I’d question where they got the camera from and if it was even new.
Click to expand...

And lesson learned :) the packaging was certainly sealed and looked new and unmolested, I also checked the shutter count this week and that was 1024 which is consistent with the use I have put it to these last few weeks. But as I said, lesson learned.
 
snerkler said:
Wouldn't make any difference to me I'd be wanting a replacement or repair, I wouldn't be happy purchasing a camera to then have to clone things out in post.
Click to expand...
And that's why I'm persuing it on all fronts (y)
 
logged onto OM systems just now and under my repair claim I have been able to download the mailing labels and instructions to send it to the repair facility in Portugal, happy days.
Will get it packed tonight and sent tomorrow.
 
It does seem odd that that shop was selling new Olys. I searched for "camera" and only saw phones and "Olympus" also failed to find any cameras. I suppose they must have got a bargain job lot from somewhere but cameras don't look to be their main business.
 
TVRTim said:
logged onto OM systems just now and under my repair claim I have been able to download the mailing labels and instructions to send it to the repair facility in Portugal, happy days.
Will get it packed tonight and sent tomorrow.
Click to expand...
It usually takes around 4 weeks there and back but might be quicker keep us updated .
 
It seems the seller are ignorant (possibly deliberatly) of consumer rights, and I think it would be a waste of effort in pursuing this line of enquiry. Hopefully OM Systems will honour the warranty, otherwise go down the paypal route.

I would suggest informing trading standards in Manchester of the situation as well.
 
andrewc said:
It seems the seller are ignorant (possibly deliberatly) of consumer rights, and I think it would be a waste of effort in pursuing this line of enquiry. Hopefully OM Systems will honour the warranty, otherwise go down the paypal route.

I would suggest informing trading standards in Manchester of the situation as well.
Click to expand...
There are a lot of thoughts floating around in my head about this seller, none of them very good, I'm pinning my hopes on OM Systems coming through with a free repair, if not I will pay the cost of that and then turn my attentions to the retailer in order to recover any costs involved.
 
It does not matter what T&C's the retailer set as your statutory consumer rights override these. I would write to the Manchester company and explain that they now have 2 weeks to fully refund you or you will initiate a claim in the small claims court. You can do the paper work on-line and include any costs in your claim. I have done this a few times but it rarely got past the initial letter as then realise that they will lose in court so cut their losses and pay up.

Dave
 
  • Like
Reactions: zx9
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top