This is a very slippery slope.

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Anything that helps get dangerous drivers off the road is all good as far as I’m concerned
Although tailgating is now an offence we still get the occasional idiot tailgating us when we stick to the speed limit
I’ll ignore the comments about motorcycles, I ride as well as drive and do realise as do most people that bad drivers use all sorts of transport and that most people are decent it’s a minority that causes problems
 
Is time travel a reality ,seems like we are rushing towards 1984
 
Is time travel a reality ,seems like we are rushing towards 1984
I do wonder sometimes if films such as the maze runner trilogy is for entertainment,
or its an instruction manual.
 
I do wonder sometimes if films such as the maze runner trilogy is for entertainment,
or its an instruction manual.
The “Trump years” in America made me wonder if the film Idiocracy was actually a documentary!
 
As a cyclist, a motorcyclist, a car driver and a Class 1 HGV driver (retired) I've seen it all. On a bicycle and on a motorbike I assume everyone is trying to kill me, when I drove an artic I assumed everyone was trying to kill themselves, in a car just do both; it's a life-saving philosophy.
 
when I drove an artic I assumed everyone was trying to kill themselves,
I had a few of those too :rolleyes:

I never forget the words of my instructor, many many years ago, and it also remains true to this day, even driving a car.

"you have to be a real nosy [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] driving one of these things looking at everyone and everything, if you don't, sure as hell someone you aren't watching, will be the one that tries to kill himself"

Several years later, I saw a car, trapped , crushed, between the cab, trailer and lamp post when an artic was making a tight left turn
and the car tried to under take.
 
It would be so much more pleasant to discuss things if some posters could manage not to attempt undermining the character of others, or deliberately try to misunderstand the words people write.

My writing style must be suspect, I get that a lot.
 
This nice van driver decided to change lanes literally into me. I had to brake as hard as possible to avoid being crushed into the central reservation and I only just made it. I then passed on the inside and his wife/partner already had her hands up at me, obviously having already received bias commentary from the driver - which proved that he had seen me the whole time.

Some people really aren't wired up properly but there's no point in road rage, these types won't change.



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Some Police Commissioners just seem to like to look busy, and from what I've read the Devon & Cornwall one is a good example of this, constantly having weird ideas like this one. I think it's just a gimmick but don't have a problem with dashcams being used in this way.

I used to have a very good CCTV system covering the outside of my studio, it not only deterred crime but also recorded it and the police often asked to have a look at the recordings. On one occasion they had been watching a drug dealers car that had very briefly stopped alongside a parked car, they were unable to see whether a deal had taken place and my CCTV showed that it hadn't and proved the innocence of the driver of the parked car. I just don't see the perceived problem, CCTV (whether static or in a vehicle) just records evidence, it's totally impartial and I don't see how it can cause problems for the innocent.

And, if you're one of the people who worry about the march of "Big Brother", the first thing to do is to get rid of your mobile phone, and the second thing to do is to get rid of your modern car if you have one and go back to one that doesn't have modern technology. Oh, and don't link your mobile phone to your computer and don't have a Ring CCTV, Alexa or similar.


I'll mention the last paragraph to my wife who, only yesterday, proudly showed me how she has her mobile synced to the car telephone system. I haven't seen her so pleased since I gave her a year's supply of L'Ocitane cherry shower gel...lol. Whilst driving in Cornwall, last January, I tried to do something with the Navigation system ..my wife was driving..and I said to her ."I can't get the 'mobile' route back"..the one that shows you where you are in real time..then a voice said, "I'm sorry, I can't hear you please speak louder"..I told her to mind her own business..:D
 
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I was watching the regional news earlier this evening and it covers Swindon, the extremity of the coverage to the east, and it featured the below footage of an incident that took place yesterday involving the Swindon Wheelers..a cycling group and an irate driver in a black 4 X 4 who had been held up behind them on a narrow road for some time. As you see he overtook them but a bit further on suddenly then pulled infront of them and braked sharply to 'have a word' and no doub impart to them his displeasure at being held up. He then started to drive off again and I think what was a bad move was that one of the cyclists took hold of the driver wing mirror to be able to keep alongside whilst he spoke to the driver. That's what the cyclist told the TV reporter who interviewed him at his home today. Unfortunatley, the driver was unaware that, as he drove off, the front of the car had hit a female rider. It states below the video that the police gave the driver a caution. For cyclists there are only guidlines re road safety and it's deemed safer, on a narrow road, for them to be two abreast so that a car behind has to wait until it's clear to overtake whereas if the cyclists were in single file there'd be a situation where there was a cyclist and two cars abreast...not good on a narrow road.

 
This nice van driver decided to change lanes literally into me. I had to brake as hard as possible to avoid being crushed into the central reservation and I only just made it. I then passed on the inside and his wife/partner already had her hands up at me, obviously having already received bias commentary from the driver - which proved that he had seen me the whole time.

Some people really aren't wired up properly but there's no point in road rage, these types won't change.



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I expect he told her that you wouldn't let him ..with an added expletive no doubt.. whereas he used the size of the van to intimidate you and push in.

You're spot on re road rage. It only exacerbates the problem and puts the blood pressure up. Best to take the high ground and drive on in the knowledge that you are a far better driver :)
 
I fear you are using a strange logic along the lines of 'carrots give you good eyesight, rabbits eat carrots, rabbits have good eyesight'.

In the same vein:

They are giving away free cameras in Devon and Cornwall
I live in Devon and Cornwall
They are giving me a free dashcam

Neither saying is true. In the article to which I referred in my original post it clearly says that the police are giving away 170 dashcams mostly to organisations such as the RNLI and South West Water. I don't believe at any point I said that they were giving everyone in Devon and Cornwall a free dashcam.


Martin..Couldn't help but butt in here...with the best will in the world here is what you opened with in your original post. My bold lettering.

'I have a dashcam in my car in case of disputes in the event of an accident but the police supplying people with dashcams to use them to catch people on their behalf does not sit well with me.'

You'll notice that quite often when a link is posted the person posting will post a relevant section from that link because he/she are mindful that, quite often, the link isn't opened. Had Jeff ('the black fox') opened that link he'd have seen the dashcams were being given to businesses and groups such as SW Water, the RNLI and Live West (a housing association) etc. Maybe something to bear in mind.
 
Martin..Couldn't help but butt in here...with the best will in the world here is what you opened with in your original post. My bold lettering.

'I have a dashcam in my car in case of disputes in the event of an accident but the police supplying people with dashcams to use them to catch people on their behalf does not sit well with me.'

You'll notice that quite often when a link is posted the person posting will post a relevant section from that link because he/she are mindful that, quite often, the link isn't opened. Had Jeff ('the black fox') opened that link he'd have seen the dashcams were being given to businesses and groups such as SW Water, the RNLI and Live West (a housing association) etc. Maybe something to bear in mind.
I suppose it's open to interpretation if the reader chooses to see it that way, after all the RNLI and SWW are still people and the article does say 'various groups'.

I tend to list the link then add a covering note whereas I have seen other people just post a link with no supporting information but I don't usually look at these unsupported links, I believe it is the poster's responsibility to start the conversation with their own comments. This is what I do and did in this case but I [perhaps naively] assumed that when I said 'people', folk concerned would have looked at the link before commenting. Hey ho.
 
I was watching the regional news earlier this evening and it covers Swindon, the extremity of the coverage to the east, and it featured the below footage of an incident that took place yesterday involving the Swindon Wheelers..a cycling group and an irate driver in a black 4 X 4 who had been held up behind them on a narrow road for some time. As you see he overtook them but a bit further on suddenly then pulled infront of them and braked sharply to 'have a word' and no doub impart to them his displeasure at being held up. He then started to drive off again and I think what was a bad move was that one of the cyclists took hold of the driver wing mirror to be able to keep alongside whilst he spoke to the driver. That's what the cyclist told the TV reporter who interviewed him at his home today. Unfortunatley, the driver was unaware that, as he drove off, the front of the car had hit a female rider. It states below the video that the police gave the driver a caution. For cyclists there are only guidlines re road safety and it's deemed safer, on a narrow road, for them to be two abreast so that a car behind has to wait until it's clear to overtake whereas if the cyclists were in single file there'd be a situation where there was a cyclist and two cars abreast...not good on a narrow road.


Reprehensible behaviour by the driver but perhaps the cyclist would have done well not to grab the guy's door mirror, he was obviously already a bit riled so this would not have helped.

Many years ago a bloke nearly knocked me off my motorbike and I rode alongside him and tried to kick his door which nearly resulted in me going head on into the oncoming traffic. His actions were dangerous but my subsequent action was just bloody stupid and totally my fault. Since that day, I have looked to my own safety first and let the road-ragers go on to have their own accidents somewhere else.
 
I guess the argument is would/should you report an offence.

If you were a witness to an assault, robbery, rape or murder would you report it, well I would hope everyone will say yes, and I see no difference in reporting traffic offences.
 
Like everyone does, all the time, without exception? You might try very hard but no one can do this all the time.
Well in lots of modern cars it's pretty easy to keep to the speed limit for the vast majority of the time, my car has traffic sign recognition, gps navigation, AND a speed limiter that when turned on keeps the car under the speed limit unless you actively force it to go over the limit.
 
For cyclists there are only guidlines re road safety and it's deemed safer, on a narrow road, for them to be two abreast so that a car behind has to wait until it's clear to overtake whereas if the cyclists were in single file there'd be a situation where there was a cyclist and two cars abreast...not good on a narrow road.
With the best will, I think that approach only creates more problems.

As someone who commuted daily on a bicycle, I believe that there's a fundamental problem with bicycles, given the current status of our road system. Put simply, my opinion is that bicycles are too fast to mix safely with pedestrians and too slow to mix safely with cars and lorries, unless the cyclists ride both defensively and with consideration for others.

My opinion is that we need far better training for cyclists, reinforced with some form of identification and a zero tolerance approach to bad riding. I used to be taken aback by the behaviour of a tiny but highly visible minority of my fellow cyclists, who made us all suspect by other road and path users.
 
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my car has traffic sign recognition, gps navigation, AND a speed limiter that when turned on keeps the car under the speed limit unless you actively force it to go over the limit.



The best safety device you could fit to a car is a 12" metal spike pointing from the steering wheel at the driver's chest, that would focus minds.
 
And likewise. While dashcams are a good idea for self-protection when it comes to sorting out blame in accidents, it would feel intensely oppressive if one were to have to been looking over one's shoulder in case one has accidentally committed some minor (or major) technical transgression that had no practical consequence.

I can't see the police dealing with very minor transgressions just from uploaded dashcam footage, certainly could never do anyone for speeding using it.

However, the other month I was driving to the in-laws, and a car and small van were being idiots, obviously a bit of road rage going on. The van driver came to a full stop right in front of the car coming off a 60mph roundabout, the cars response was to drive to the side of him and ram him so hard that the wing mirrors were left all over the road.

We phoned the police while it was happening, as they were a danger to other road users and the exit from the roundabout was now littered with debris from the impact. But because we didn't have a dashcam, they did naff all.
 
Dashcams and motorbikes... that reminds me of an incident a few weeks ago (that, if I'd been a vindictive sort with nothing better to do, I could have posted on YouTube)... I was driving along a regular route I take and found I was following what appeared to be a more elderly bloke (I'd make an educated guess at 60+) riding a large, American style, motorbike, complete with paniers and fairings (most likely a Japanese job pretending to be a Harley Davidson Electra Glide - you probably get the picture).

Said bike was doing about 28 MPH in a 30mph zone, but wandering around the carriageway a bit too much for my liking, so I kept my distance. We then passed into a 40mph zone, where the bike starts doing 25mph. I maintained my 'even safer than usual' distance, suspecting the bike may be suffering from engine issues. We then pass into a national speed limit zone (60 mph limit) whereupon the bike travels at between 25mph and 40mph with no apparent speed correlation with bends, visibility splays, or other such road conditions.

I maintain my safe distance and we finally reach a set of traffic lights, where the chap positions his bike to the right hand side of the carriageway, but not signalling. Still maintaining a safe distance in case I have to negotiate my way around a broken down motorbike; the lights change and nothing happens for a few moments, he then sets off straight ahead, with the bike pulling away seemingly effortlessly, with no signs or sounds of engine trouble!

By now I have good reason to suspect that the erratic behaviour is down to the rider rather than the bike. I followed at a safe distance, with the bike accelerating up to 40mph to round a right hand bend, with the rider positioning the bike so far over to the right that the wheels were only a foot or so away from the double white lines down the centre of the road.

This meant that, in leaning into the bend, the rider's head and upper body were well over the white lines and into the path of oncoming traffic! I pulled back even further to provide sufficient room to avoid colliding with the wreckage and body parts if the worst happened! Unsurprisingly, just after the apex of the bend the biker had to veer suddenly to the left to avoid an oncoming car! Cue travelling at 25mph again until the crossroads, where the bike pulled up, after weaving to a halt, in the middle of the carriageway. Nothing coming, but we waited about 2 mins before the rider finally decided to turn left, wobbling off without signalling. I'm afraid my patience had run rather thin by that time so I announced my disapproval at his road manners with a long blast of my car horn, and gesticulated to the chap that I thought he was a t*sser.

I wouldn't mind, but stuck to the right hand side of his white, open faced, helmet was a camera! Not that I'd have appeared on it, unless he could have turned his head like an owl to look backwards (although I'm sure that remains a distinct possibility if he continues to negotiate right-hand bends like that into oncoming traffic!) but I couldn't ignore the irony! I don't think I've ever witnessed a more inept and incapable motorcyclist.

So do vehicle cameras make for safer motoring? Probably not, but at least the footage from mine might have been able to serve as valuable evidence in a coroner's court if that biker had not been able to avoid that oncoming car!
I used to live fairly close to Box Hill in Surrey, a favourite haunt for bikers, and saw this sort of behaviour a fair bit. It’s mostly down to the middle age crisis/born again biker syndrome. Bloke who had a bike as a teenager now has time and money to burn so buys a big impressive bike and then discovers he has no idea how to ride it, no concept of the roadcraft needed to handle a bike rather than a car and forgetting his reaction times are way slower than they were. I wish I had a quid for every Easy Rider wannabe at Box Hill on a sunny Sunday, wearing an immaculate set of new leathers, posing beside his shiny tricked out Harley, then struggling to get it off the stand without dropping it before slowly wobbling off into the distance. :)
 
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My writing style must be suspect, I get that a lot.

When I post I try to anticipate what responses might be if I don't make something absolutely clear but even then it sometimes doesn't work because people do see and interpret things differently and come up with some left side aspect (not left, politically.. out of kilter with the theme) but what's important, as ancient-_mariner has pointed out, is to think..ok, well, I don't think that's right and respond by sticking to explaining why you don't think it's right, even acknowledging/appreciating their point of view followed with a but... not be abrasive or sarcastic, which in some ways seems worse. It doesn't mean you can't call someone out on something. There's one thing that I find dismaying and it happens in studio (tv or radio) debates and phone-ins and it's when someone, including politicians who should know better, will tell another person that what he/she is saying is rubbish. No-one should be told that their point of view is rubbish...even if it appears to be the case :)
 
I’d be astonished if the police had the staffing and free time to go through that many reports. Round here you only see traffic police at crashes, and if you report crimes it is all a bit National Lottery if you get anything back.
 
But because we didn't have a dashcam, they did naff all.
If you gave them the registrations for both vehicles, they should have been recorded on the information system. It has no immediate effect but would come up if one of them was stopped by an officer at a later date. It then might affect how they were dealt with.
 
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With the best will, I think that approach only creates more problems.

As someone who commuted daily on a bicycle, I believe that there's a fundamental problem with bicycles, given the current status of our road system. Put simply, my opinion is that bicycles are too fast to mix safely with pedestrians and too slow to mix safely with cars and lorries, unless the cyclists ride both defensively and with consideration for others.

My opinion is that we need far better training for cyclists, reinforced with some form of identification and a zero tolerance approach to bad riding. I used to be taken aback by the behaviour of a tiny but highly visible minority of my fellow cyclists, who made us all suspect by other road and path users.
Actually, the fundamental problem is entitled motorists who think they should have precedence over other road users. Since the Close Pass publicity initiatives I've noticed much better behaviour from drivers to vulnerable road users. Long may this grow and continue.

The bicycle is a pretty sustainable way of travel. We should be embracing it and encouraging it, and we have to reduce car use; the growth of which something that has been encouraged ever since the corrupt Beeching stuff.

As has already been said. It isn't ”the behaviour of a tiny but highly visible minority of my fellow cyclists” in fact it is “the behaviour of a tiny but highly visible minority of my fellow road users”. And if I was being really harsh, the last bit would say “the behaviour of a tiny but highly visible minority of my fellow road users, which I accept sometimes includes me”.
 
I’d be astonished if the police had the staffing and free time to go through that many reports. Round here you only see traffic police at crashes, and if you report crimes it is all a bit National Lottery if you get anything back.


As you say, the police are massively understaffed and we all suffer for it. It's a government policy I've never understood.

Re submission of dash cam footage I wondered how many are sent to the police. What Car ? looked into it. 35 a day.

 
Actually, the fundamental problem is entitled motorists who think they should have precedence over other road users.
I disagree with that.

In my view, almost all the problems with safety are due to the mixing of traffic with different maximum speeds in a limited space. Lorries, cars, motor cyclists and bicycles should, in theory, be able to coexist with pedestrians, but that requires a mindset which is antithetical to the way in which the different forms of locomotion are promoted and used.

A very few cyclists think that cars and lorries are an enemy. A few drivers think the same of cyclists. These two groups should be identified and have their vehicles taken away from them. With those two sub-groups removed, though, there will still be a big problem, where the different types of vehicles come into contact with one another and where any of them come into contact with pedestrians.

The cure for this lies either in strict segregation: lanes for high powered vehicles, cycle lanes and pedestrian walkways or in the replacement of all urban roads and pavements with shared space, where everyone is equal and politeness is forced on all users by that equality. In my opinion, either method will work but there will always be loud voices condemning whichever is applied. The bottom line here is that selfishness almost always ends up winning and the majority therefor lose.
 
I disagree with that.

In my view, almost all the problems with safety are due to the mixing of traffic with different maximum speeds in a limited space. Lorries, cars, motor cyclists and bicycles should, in theory, be able to coexist with pedestrians, but that requires a mindset which is antithetical to the way in which the different forms of locomotion are promoted and used.

A very few cyclists think that cars and lorries are an enemy. A few drivers think the same of cyclists. These two groups should be identified and have their vehicles taken away from them. With those two sub-groups removed, though, there will still be a big problem, where the different types of vehicles come into contact with one another and where any of them come into contact with pedestrians.

The cure for this lies either in strict segregation: lanes for high powered vehicles, cycle lanes and pedestrian walkways or in the replacement of all urban roads and pavements with shared space, where everyone is equal and politeness is forced on all users by that equality. In my opinion, either method will work but there will always be loud voices condemning whichever is applied. The bottom line here is that selfishness almost always ends up winning and the majority therefor lose.

So shared space then. Overcome the problem of entitled motorists who think they should have precedence over other road users.

We are a small country and we have a network of routes that already connects almost every house with almost every workplace and almost every leisure destination. Segregating would mean duplicating that network, at least once.

I don't know about where you live, but where I do there is no space for a parallel set of cycle and pedestrian routes, and all the junctions and control systems that would be needed. If we could deal with the space, there would be the small issues of cost and maintenance...
 
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Around 2 years ago I was beaten up ( hospitalised) and had my car trashed by a gang of young bikers that where terrorising my town at the time. It was recorded on high quality cctv from two different angles. Despite showing registration plates, close up images of faces, make and models of motorbikes and me being pelted with rocks the police were not interested in even viewing the footage as the animals were wearing helmets. The only thing that happened was my insurance company used the footage to pay my claim for my written off car and managed to get two of the bikes insurance cancelled. I have always respected the police but I now have some doubts.
 
I think everyone should have a dashcam to be honest and we should share way more stuff on sites which might help out people in accidents.
I bought a cheap one about 4 years ago and it has already helped me with a lying s*** of an UBER taxi driver who tried to blame me when he ran into the back of me static.
i had the full footage and only when his insurance company were forwaded the footage did he agree he was at fault.

people on our roads are right lying deceitful s*** bags
 
So shared space then. Overcome the problem of entitled motorists who think they should have precedence over other road users.

We are a small country and we have a network of routes that already connects almost every house with almost every workplace and almost every leisure destination. Segregating would mean duplicating that network, at least once.

I don't know about where you live, but where I do there is no space for a parallel set of cycle and pedestrian routes, and all the junctions and control systems that would be needed. If we could deal with the space, there would be the small issues of cost and maintenance...
Shared space: I think Andrew was talking about a scheme I have seen in The Netherlands where they have been doing it since I lived there in the late eighties. It only really works on quiet residential roads and consists of all pavements being removed, the road is block paved and street structures like tree boxes are placed in positions such that a vehicle can get through if they are careful of pedestrians, who can walk where they want. In Holland it worked well as they are a polite and friendly people, here in the UK, hmm, I doubt it. We are a contentious, self-righteous race of people and there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth if such a thing were brought in anywhere but the most salubrious areas. Plus, fleeing tea leafs would be able to escape police cars with ease.
 
Yeah, I know about Shared Space schemes, there's one by the museums in South Kensington.

My point is that we already have shared space for road users. We could make that work. That would be a good thing for the world.
 
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Well in lots of modern cars it's pretty easy to keep to the speed limit for the vast majority of the time, my car has traffic sign recognition, gps navigation, AND a speed limiter that when turned on keeps the car under the speed limit unless you actively force it to go over the limit.
And I see loads of idiots doing dangerous stuff within the speed limit. So those gizmos are no guarantee of good/safe driving - humans are still fallible. So hand on heart you’ve never made an error while driving within the speed limit?
I’ll admit I have - and I do my best to learn from it and not repeat......
 
I guess the argument is would/should you report an offence.

If you were a witness to an assault, robbery, rape or murder would you report it, well I would hope everyone will say yes, and I see no difference in reporting traffic offences.
If you witness it then yes - totally - have been in that position.
However just happening to be in the right place at the right/wrong time is completely different to the police actively mobilising groups of civilians to monitor other civilians’ behaviour.
 
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