Thinking about weddings.

redmonkee

redmonkee

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Hi guys I know there's been loads of threads about people wanting to make it as a wedding photographer, and asking advice on what kit they need etc.

Well my situation is different. I currently work full time as an Artworker however lately work has dried up a little and I am worrying about the possibility of future redundancies. I am happy in my job and enjoy photography as a keen hobby, however if I were to loose my job i've been thinking of what I could do bring money in.

I've started to think that maybe making the jump and making photography my full time income maybe my best option.

Now I have photographed a wedding before (for a friend) I was the sole photographer and though I was really nervous I seemed to do a decent job. the link to my shots can be found here http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=342861

The couple were delighted with them and the experience left me wanting to do more weddings. But obviously this is quite hard when in full time employment. If redundancies were to happen though I'm thinking it may just be the opportunity I need to try and make a living out of my photography.

The issue I have is where on earth does one start in setting up. obviously the right kit is essential as is skill and technical knowledge but it's more the business side of things that worry me.

You can be the best photographer in the world but if you cant market yourself then all is lost.

I've designed albums for wedding photographers in the past, so I know how to deliver a finished product and how much costs are involved in this, but it's where to start and how to get my name out there that worries me because the mortgage would need paying and I couldnt afford a few months with no work coming in.

I know this post may seem a bit hasty but I figure the sooner I think about how to start up the more prepared i'll be should the worst happen.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated :)
 
volatile subject this of course :) but with experience, professionalism and kit it can be done imho
from a business point of view (leaving kit aside) making the jump is often down to rolling into it I think. so have a client list building up as you go.
wedding photographers are booked 5-15 months in advance I think, so going pro might not get you income for 6 months or 12 months if you need to build up your client list.
Are there opportunities to get more experience as a 2nd shooter in your area? (or out of it due to obvious issues with competition)
I think more in your portfolio would be a good start. and you'll have to do this whilst employed full-time of course!
 
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redmonkee said:
Hi guys I know there's been loads of threads about people wanting to make it as a wedding photographer, and asking advice on what kit they need etc.

Well my situation is different. I currently work full time as an Artworker however lately work has dried up a little and I am worrying about the possibility of future redundancies. I am happy in my job and enjoy photography as a keen hobby, however if I were to loose my job i've been thinking of what I could do bring money in.

I've started to think that maybe making the jump and making photography my full time income maybe my best option.

Now I have photographed a wedding before (for a friend) I was the sole photographer and though I was really nervous I seemed to do a decent job. the link to my shots can be found here http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=342861

The couple were delighted with them and the experience left me wanting to do more weddings. But obviously this is quite hard when in full time employment. If redundancies were to happen though I'm thinking it may just be the opportunity I need to try and make a living out of my photography.

The issue I have is where on earth does one start in setting up. obviously the right kit is essential as is skill and technical knowledge but it's more the business side of things that worry me.

You can be the best photographer in the world but if you cant market yourself then all is lost.

I've designed albums for wedding photographers in the past, so I know how to deliver a finished product and how much costs are involved in this, but it's where to start and how to get my name out there that worries me because the mortgage would need paying and I couldnt afford a few months with no work coming in.

I know this post may seem a bit hasty but I figure the sooner I think about how to start up the more prepared i'll be should the worst happen.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated :)
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Starting once you don't have another income is a bad idea IMO... I work full time (37 hours a week) and over the last year have shot about 12 weddings, some PR / Commercial stuff, a few family portraits and various other things (my 1st year of doing it)... I've worked on average another 30 - 40 hours a week on top of my day job meaning a 75 hour working week, no days or nights off for months and have invested thousands (more than I've made) in all the kit required (and I still want more things at over £4k in total).

I'd say it will take 3-5 years to establish yourself as a full time wedding pro as you need to build a reputation, experience and portfolio.

By all means follow your dream if that's what your dream is, but please be under no illusion that you can walk out of a job one day and then start up a successful wedding photography business the next.

If it is your dream start now, work 75 hours a week during wedding season, build up your business over several years and then move in to doing it full time.
 
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Hi, one of your problems might be cash flow? Even if you get up and running (good luck with that), and when you get your first booking; you might have to wait some considerable time before getting paid. I'm currently taking enquiries and bookings for weddings in 2013 and 2014.

For your information, the busiest periods for bookings seem to be late Autumn and early Spring. This is also when the wedding fairs take place, I've never done one - so can't comment how good they are?
 
DizMatt said:
volatile subject this of course :) but with experience, professionalism and kit it can be done imho

wedding photographers are booked 5-15 months in advance I think, so going pro might not get you income for 6 months or 12 months if you need to build up your client list.
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That is an excellent point and one i'd not thought of :thumbs:
 
redmonkee said:
Thanks Andy and paul, I think you're right about building up gradually.

Andy when you started alongside your day job were most of your weddings on weekends or did you have to use holidays to free up time to go shoot the weddings. I notice that Friday's are popular days for weddings.
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Yeah a bit of both... I had 4 weddings in one week in august - Saturday, Sunday, Thursday and Sunday. Just the editing time alone for these was mind boggling and so I had to take a full week of work just to handle that side of things. I still only got 2 edited in that time as well so the next 3 weeks were spent editing every night after work and all weekend.

I managed to clear them just in time for the next 2 weddings which were on a Friday and a Sunday. I took the Friday off but tbh I could have done with taking the Monday off too just to recover! Unfortunately my work wouldn't allow it so I was straight back to work on the Monday. The worst part was picking up some sort of virus at the back end of that week and having to shoot the Sunday wedding whilst feeling really unwell. As I couldn't take the monday off and also have to get the images to the clients ASAP I've worked two 75 hour weeks back to back with a virus which isn't shifting (I'm tired and run down / exhausted so it's no surprise)... not much fun!

But this is what I have had to do, and tbh if you want to do it as well this is kind of the reality. It's a hugely rewarding experience and I love doing it, but please understand it's not easy doing both a full time job and then another full time one on top of it.

So yeah I've kind of gone off track there a little and to answer your question yes I have to take holiday from work to shoot weddings, and sometimes to do the editing too. :)
 
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ajax_andy said:
I'd say it will take 3-5 years to establish yourself as a full time wedding pro as you need to build a reputation, experience and portfolio.
.
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No disrespect intended - but that is total crap

I did it in 1 year to a good level as a WW, a chap I know went from 0 to 60 Weddings pa in year 2

What you can't do though is go full-time and be making decent money straight away, that bit does take time & a good portfolio to show off - so ideally you do need a year at it to even begin to go full-time

If you REALLY want to do it quickly - start NOW :thumbs:

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
No disrespect intended - but that is total crap

I did it in 1 year to a good level as a WW, a chap I know went from 0 to 60 Weddings pa in year 2

What you can't do though is go full-time and be making decent money straight away, that bit does take time & a good portfolio to show off - so ideally you do need a year at it to even begin to go full-time

If you REALLY want to do it quickly - start NOW :thumbs:

Dave
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Don't get me wrong Dave that's mightly impressive and well done to you and the guy you know... but surely that's the exception rather than the rule? to go from zero to 30 a year on average you'd have to be an amazing tog and an outstanding businessman. Not many people out there like that!
 
ajax_andy said:
Don't get me wrong Dave that's mightly impressive and well done to you and the guy you know... but surely that's the exception rather than the rule? to go from zero to 30 a year on average you'd have to be an amazing tog and an outstanding businessman. Not many people out there like that!
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Just applied marketing bud - being a decent tog makes it easier but you really don't need to be amazing by any means

A (not very good) tog I know did 37 Weddings in year 2 just by throwing themselves at every Wedding Fayre they could find, of course that needs some decent access to funding but a reitrement or redundancy can give you that

Look at it this way - if you actually do 30 Weddings in a year and your workflow is only fair that's still only 30 x 40 = 120 days' work; if you do nothing on a further 100 days (what non-Wedding togs used to call weekends!!!) and take 28 days hols too, that still leaves you with 117 days left for marketing

In year one, doing few Weddings, you could have 200+ days for marketing - if the product & pricing is close to right you are always going to be successful applying that much effort (if you have a clue what to do with the time that is)

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Just applied marketing bud - being a decent tog makes it easier but you really don't need to be amazing by any means

A (not very good) tog I know did 37 Weddings in year 2 just by throwing themselves at every Wedding Fayre they could find, of course that needs some decent access to funding but a reitrement or redundancy can give you that

Look at it this way - if you actually do 30 Weddings in a year and your workflow is only fair that's still only 30 x 40 = 120 days' work; if you do nothing on a further 100 days (what non-Wedding togs used to call weekends!!!) and take 28 days hols too, that still leaves you with 117 days left for marketing

In year one, doing few Weddings, you could have 200+ days for marketing - if the product & pricing is close to right you are always going to be successful applying that much effort (if you have a clue what to do with the time that is)

Dave
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Yeah fair points tbh... I guess that's the difficulty with me working full time as well in that I don't have much time to think or act out on any ideas I have for marketing. Things will quieten down after the next couple of weeks though so it's something I need to think about and maybe get out there and do some networking
 
This also depends on your local demographic, how far you are prepared to travel etc....
 
One point you may or may not find useful. I am amazed how many 'pros' make no or little effort to engage with the customer and guests during the shoot. I habe only done around 10 but always insist on a rehersal to put the couple at their ease and get used to having their pics taken, makes for more relaxed pics on the day. Also try engage with the guests you are photographing as well. You have several dozen potential referals in front of you. The more fun and painless you make the experience will lead to referals as well great pics (which of course is essential). I also suggest a good simple website for a pointof reference is also essential.
 
corny said:
One point you may or may not find useful. I am amazed how many 'pros' make no or little effort to engage with the customer and guests during the shoot. I habe only done around 10 but always insist on a rehersal to put the couple at their ease and get used to having their pics taken, makes for more relaxed pics on the day. Also try engage with the guests you are photographing as well. You have several dozen potential referals in front of you. The more fun and painless you make the experience will lead to referals as well great pics (which of course is essential). I also suggest a good simple website for a pointof reference is also essential.
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I completely agree with this... if the guests like you then they will remember you when they need a photographer, or someone they know does.

I got told at a wedding recently that one of the parents had said "didn't feel like we had an official photographer, more a guest with a really expensive camera". To me that feedback was nearly as rewarding as the compliments I got from the B&G about their pics!
 
ajax_andy said:
I got told at a wedding recently that one of the parents had said "didn't feel like we had an official photographer, more a guest with a really expensive camera".
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Personally I wouldnt see that as a good thing - the pro is supposed to be the pro, yes they need to have great people skills, but they are there to document the wedding not take part in it
 
big soft moose said:
Personally I wouldnt see that as a good thing - the pro is supposed to be the pro, yes they need to have great people skills, but they are there to document the wedding not take part in it
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I don't think they meant it in a bad way... just that I was very friendly and didn't boss people about.

I certainly didn't take part in the wedding but I know they'd mentioned they'd seen other photographers being quite rude and demanding, whereas I just blended in and didn't get in people's faces whilst also being chilled out and made conversation with guests who spoke to me.
 
We've done it, 3 weddings the first year, 30 the second then consistently 50 ish each year after that (plus some additional commercial and portraiture work). You can do it, but you need a combination of skills and a big slice of luck.

There are easier ways to earn a living, I do it because I love weddings and photographing people, the interaction and of course making money at something that allows me to be creative. On the down side, prepare yourself for long hours and endless amounts of hassle, the more your prices go up, the more your brides will expect of you (I'm not talking images), some people are just a PITA by nature and its very hard to just switch off.

Swmbo is without doubt our most valuable asset. The brides all love her, she is so good with people its just ridiculous - friendly and approachable, has the most amazing memory and has become a decent photographer in her own right. Without her I wouldn't be doing this, its as much about you and your personality as it is the images and albums you create.

What I would say is if you decide to do it, be prepared to work your backside off. If your not shooting or processing, you'll need to be working on the other aspects of the business and when you've finished doing that you'll need to be watching/reading/listening to every *decent* bit of advice and training course you can.

Go in with your eyes open, look at how many other photographers are within a 15 mile radius of where you live, those with even remotely similar prices are all your direct competition.

The mistake we made at the start was to underestimate the costs and overheads, its not just the camera gear that costs the money, pc's, storage, backups, marking material, advertising, insurance, website hosting - it never seems to end - even now.

Good luck!
 
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psenior1 said:
We've done it, 3 weddings the first year, 30 the second then consistently 50 ish each year after that (plus some additional commercial and portraiture work). You can do it, but you need a combination of skills and a big slice of luck.

There are easier ways to earn a living, I do it because I love weddings and photographing people, the interaction and of course making money at something that allows me to be creative. On the down side, prepare yourself for long hours and endless amounts of hassle, the more your prices go up, the more your brides will expect of you (I'm not talking images), some people are just a PITA by nature and its very hard to just switch off.

Swmbo is without doubt our most valuable asset. The brides all love her, she is so good with people its just ridiculous - friendly and approachable, has the most amazing memory and has become a decent photographer in her own right. Without her I wouldn't be doing this, its as much about you and your personality as it is the images and albums you create.

What I would say is if you decide to do it, be prepared to work your backside off. If your not shooting or processing, you'll need to be working on the other aspects of the business and when you've finished doing that you'll need to be watching/reading/listening to every *decent* bit of advice and training course you can.

Go in with your eyes open, look at how many other photographers are within a 15 mile radius of where you live, those with even remotely similar prices are all your direct competition.

The mistake we made at the start was to underestimate the costs and overheads, its not just the camera gear that costs the money, pc's, storage, backups, marking material, advertising, insurance, website hosting - it never seems to end - even now.

Good luck!
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How do you manage to do 50 weddings a year?!! during wedding season you must be doing something like 3 a week every week surely? How do you fit in time for editing, eating, sleeping etc lol

It's good going don't get me wrong but my mind boggles a little at the logistics of pulling it off :thinking:
 
ajax_andy said:
How do you manage to do 50 weddings a year?!! during wedding season you must be doing something like 3 a week every week surely? How do you fit in time for editing, eating, sleeping etc lol

It's good going don't get me wrong but my mind boggles a little at the logistics of pulling it off :thinking:
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A good workflow!
I'm shooting 65+ this year & August/September was certainly tiring but I'm well on the way to catching up with my editing & albums etc. The blogs way out of date but that can wait
 
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It varies a lot depending on the length of coverage, size of wedding etc but it is perfectly achievable without killing yourself.
The priority is to have a file structure, backup procedure etc in place so that the editing side of the processing flows smoothly. All my images are edited in LR & CS5 so its not just a quick makeover in LR style of editing.
Its not my workflow though, I paid to be taught it but thats the best money I ever spent.
 
ajax_andy said:
How do you manage to do 50 weddings a year?!! during wedding season you must be doing something like 3 a week every week surely? How do you fit in time for editing, eating, sleeping etc lol

It's good going don't get me wrong but my mind boggles a little at the logistics of pulling it off :thinking:
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Good workflow and I have swmbo to do all of the admin and business side of things. Our busiest months this year were April and August, when we did 7. Turn around times for clients images vary from between 2 to 4 weeks, which is reasonable considering we don't just shoot and burn.
 
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paul_g said:
A good workflow!
I'm shooting 65+ this year & August/September was certainly tiring but I'm well on the way to catching up with my editing & albums etc. The blogs way out of date but that can wait
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Paul, just had a look at your website (there's some good stuff on there), all day coverage, plus album + high res files for less than £900 is nuts! No wonder you are shooting 65+, I'd imagine brides are beating down your door (not to mention other local togs!) and I thought our prices were too low!
 
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psenior1 said:
Good workflow and I have swmbo to do all of the admin and business side of things. Our busiest months this year were April and August, when we did 7. Turn around times for clients images vary from between 2 to 4 weeks, which is reasonable considering we don't just shoot and burn.
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Yeah that's a good turn around... I'm the same in that I don't just add a couple of actions in LR and chuck it in the post. Working full time and doing weddings I can still fully edit a wedding in 7 days so I guess it can be done on the scale of 50 weddings a year if all you do is literally shoot and edit with someone doing the business side.

Still good going though if you ask me! :)
 
I know a local tog (very talented with unique style) who shot 80 a few of years ago, but he had a full time retoucher to look after the editing, with his prices starting at £2K+, thats pretty good going. With the market being so saturated now (around here at least) I would be surprised if many people could hit that number now, unless they are severely underpriced for the quality of work and service they provide.
 
I would be very interested to know what market data is available, by that I mean hpw many weddings? How many registered photographers, average prices. For many business, this marketing info is vital and am bot sure if a local data is avaialbemor even collated!
 
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