These young girls travelling to Syria

Lindsay D said:
This is why, having been in two unstable zones myself (both a very long time ago, and nowhere near as bad as Syria) I cannot hold with the view that the girls simply toddled off themselves with no one else assisting them. Whether this is grooming or not is unclear, but somehow the girls absorbed the notion that they could or should join a radical group, and I'm guessing they were able to locate and communicate with facilitators while they were planning their departure.
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I suspect you're right about the facilitators.


And aside, Syria has some fantastic history and did have some pretty amazing places to visit. When it was anything like stable enough to think about going
 
Lindsay D said:
This is why, having been in two unstable zones myself (both a very long time ago, and nowhere near as bad as Syria) I cannot hold with the view that the girls simply toddled off themselves with no one else assisting them. Whether this is grooming or not is unclear, but somehow the girls absorbed the notion that they could or should join a radical group, and I'm guessing they were able to locate and communicate with facilitators while they were planning their departure.
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I reckon that a lot of young people communicate via facebook and (in this instance) chat away quite happily with 'freedom fighters', sharing links and watching videos of the utopia of life in Islamic State.
Is that grooming? Probably.
 
It's also a shame that these ISIS retards seen hell bent on destroying the cultural heritage of the areas they infest.
 
viv1969 said:
It's also a shame that these ISIS retards seen hell bent on destroying the cultural heritage of the areas they infest.
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Yep, I saw videos of them destroying museums and sites of historical and educational importance. Utterly disgraceful. Fanaticism at its most horrifying. I sometimes can't believe this is the 21st-century, it's like being in the dark ages.
 
There was a report, admittedly in the Huff Post :) , that a cleric was wanting the pyramids and sphinx destroyed...
 
Lindsay D said:
Yes, I wonder if the authorities have found any records like that with which to put together a communication chain. I think they found something a few weeks ago but it went cold.
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This is where I think your idea falls over.

You might be right, but given it's really better for everyone if there was grooming/persuasion/coercion and the easy of looking at past communications, why wouldn't the Authorities be screaming it from the rooftops? There's no secret squirrel detection methods involved, so no reason not to, and every reason to tell everyone.

We have all seen kids getting to places that they shouldn't. Especially when they get to 15/16/17 year olds. It's really not that unusual, and without any outside help.
 
Bernie174 said:
if there was grooming/persuasion/coercion and the easy of looking at past communications, why wouldn't the Authorities be screaming it from the rooftops? There's no secret squirrel detection methods involved, so no reason not to, and every reason to tell everyone.

We have all seen kids getting to places that they shouldn't. Especially when they get to 15/16/17 year olds. It's really not that unusual, and without any outside help.
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Perhaps there are reasons why the information (if any exists) can't be released into the public domain - things might be better kept under wraps to avoid compromising a case until investigations are complete or arrests are made. This might explain why so little has been said so far.
 
viv1969 said:
It's also a shame that these ISIS retards seen hell bent on destroying the cultural heritage of the areas they infest.
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So do the Saudis, who continue to destroy much of the religious and cultural/architectural heritage of Mecca and Medina, although it's a toss up between whether this is motived by the Wahhabi obsession with eliminating anything that smacks of 'idol worship' in their view, and sheer commercial greed. And, of course, the wanton destruction of the ancient Bamiyan Buddha statues by the Taliban...
 
Bernie174 said:
This is where I think your idea falls over.

You might be right, but given it's really better for everyone if there was grooming/persuasion/coercion and the easy of looking at past communications, why wouldn't the Authorities be screaming it from the rooftops? There's no secret squirrel detection methods involved, so no reason not to, and every reason to tell everyone.

We have all seen kids getting to places that they shouldn't. Especially when they get to 15/16/17 year olds. It's really not that unusual, and without any outside help.
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Bernie if you actually are who you say you are you should know that there are many types of intercept. And not all is permissible and "secret squirrel detection methods" will be most definitely involved.

Sometimes I really wonder ...
 
Lindsay D said:
This is why, having been in two unstable zones myself (both a very long time ago, and nowhere near as bad as Syria) I cannot hold with the view that the girls simply toddled off themselves with no one else assisting them. Whether this is grooming or not is unclear, but somehow the girls absorbed the notion that they could or should join a radical group, and I'm guessing they were able to locate and communicate with facilitators while they were planning their departure.
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If they were in touch with the girl who went missing last year, then I think that the means would have been made available to them. On the question of "grooming", If you look at the options open to youngsters leaving school nowadays, for many the picture is bleak. These girls had another option in their eyes, and it was to run away to help form a new state - I am obviously just surmising here.
I reckon they saw this as one big, romatic venture, despite the fact that they were going to be part of one of the most dangerous idealistic terrorist groups that we have ever seen.
 
Bernie174 said:
The Head of the Met Police, and the Head of Anti Terrorist Branch said that in evidence before the Home Affairs Select Committee earlier this week. So its a done deal.
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Yes, so that is an another absolute c**k up by them, as well as the earlier incident, where they gave the three girls who have absconded, letters to give to their parents, about the girl who went missing last year. The girls failed to give the letters to their parents - because they knew that they would be incriminated, and the Met failed to folllow up the enquiries - you couldn't make this up, it is like something from Inspector Clouseau.
The Met seem to be so useless, that they need a complete overhaul.
 
andy700 said:
After watching the Turkish military looking on as ISIL destroyed Kobane last year, I wouldn't trust them at all.
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l

I'm not surprised. Relation with Turkey and Syria have always been frosty. Over things like water and the PKK before any of this. There was about an 8 year period from about 2004 when they stopped actually shooting at each other. But I'm sure non of the Turks are sad to see Assad struggle.
 
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andy700 said:
Yes, so that is an another absolute c**k up by them, as well as the earlier incident, where they gave the three girls who have absconded, letters to give to their parents, about the girl who went missing last year. The girls failed to give the letters to their parents - because they knew that they would be incriminated, and the Met failed to folllow up the enquiries - you couldn't make this up, it is like something from Inspector Clouseau.
The Met seem to be so useless, that they need a complete overhaul.
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No, it wasn't perfect, on that you're right. Not sure I agree with your assessments of why, but then it's easy to be wise after an event.

Lindsay D said:
Perhaps there are reasons why the information (if any exists) can't be released into the public domain - things might be better kept under wraps to avoid compromising a case until investigations are complete or arrests are made. This might explain why so little has been said so far.
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And perhaps it's just not there and they did it all off their own back. I see why you wouldn't want to accept that possibility, but it is there.
 
kendo1 said:
Any chance of a moderator asking someone on here to settle down and stop taking umbrage at anyone else who has a contrary opinion?
He's being a bit of a prat.
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report button dude - bottom left
 
boyfalldown said:
l
But I'm sure non of the Turks are sad to see Assad struggle.
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This is true - they'll be singing a very different tune if the trouble spreads into Turkey - I'm sure they (the turkish govt) think they are too strong for that to happen , but then Assad probably thought that too.
 
kendo1 said:
Any chance of a moderator asking someone on here to settle down and stop taking umbrage at anyone else who has a contrary opinion?
.
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Duly noted ;)

You know, these threads and some posters remind me of a quote from a kids film "Matilda"
Where Danny DeVito (dad) say's to Mara Wilson (Matilda)
"I'm big, your small, I'm right you're wrong, and there is nothing you can do about it" ;)
 
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big soft moose said:
This is true - they'll be singing a very different tune if the trouble spreads into Turkey - I'm sure they (the turkish govt) think they are too strong for that to happen , but then Assad probably thought that too.
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Yeah, Turkey is funny like that. It's got a massive standing army and is part of nato so I doubt is could ever threaten it. It's also had some pretty hostile countries on its borders for along time so no slouch.

That said though the current administration seems to lean far more to Islam then any previous one, although the military do protect its constitution rather vigourosly so it's hard to see a serious threat that way
 
thing is IS have moved on a power vacuum brought about by popular revolt (or collosal f*** up by america and allies in the case of iraq) - they probably couldnt have overthowm Assad on their own, but after the lid blew off and the west saw the rebels as the good guys for a bit IS moved in . Its not likely to happen in turkey , but we could see it happening in libya and egypt (Saudi would be a worryuing one too )
 
big soft moose said:
thing is IS have moved on a power vacuum brought about by popular revolt (or collosal f*** up by america and allies in the case of iraq) - they probably couldnt have overthowm Assad on their own, but after the lid blew off and the west saw the rebels as the good guys for a bit IS moved in . Its not likely to happen in turkey , but we could see it happening in libya and egypt (Saudi would be a worryuing one too )
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I thought they were already establishing a hold in Libya, a country simply no longer in a position to protect it's people effectively without help - of course how and from whom that help is offered could be key to whether IS turn some advances into full on take over.
 
Yv said:
I thought they were already establishing a hold in Libya, a country simply no longer in a position to protect it's people effectively without help - of course how and from whom that help is offered could be key to whether IS turn some advances into full on take over.
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They are - and its the same principal, a popular revolt kicked Gadafi out then IS move into the power vacuum (a bit like how the bolsheviks took over Russia after the revolution).

The point i was making was that for it to happen in turkey or egypt, or saudi or wherever it isnt necessary for IS to cross the border and go toe to toe with the established army - they won't because they know they'd lose. Instead they will foster discontent via agit prop, eventually a popular rebellion ensues and then they move on the now vacant power position.
 
You were :p
 
Looks like the security sources have been switched on lately. Report yesterday of one teenager stopped at a uk airport, now reports today of a further 3stopped in Istanbul.
 
Byker28i said:
Looks like the security sources have been switched on lately. Report yesterday of one teenager stopped at a uk airport, now reports today of a further 3stopped in Istanbul.
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They are under arrest (on suspicion of being involved in terrorist activities) in a London Nick now.
 
andy700 said:
Interesting report. Have you looked at the Comments section after the article - it is really kicking off there, a multi way debate/fight between Christianity, Islam, Sikhism and Hinduism.
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Wow that is just a slinging match, some vile and disgusting comments on there.
 
ST4 said:
Conspiracy, planning to commit terrorism offences.
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Apologies for quoting your post (I'm still reading through the topic) but I think you may have been on about when people fly out, wage jihad then come back? The rest of my rant will probably be completely unrelated.

I'm not too sure what UK Law states about mercenaries and I' kind of playing the devil's advocate here, but I once worked a job with a lad who came out of 1 Para (UKSF support) a few years back and who regularly does 'security' work in the Middle-East; a lot of his work involved him getting into heavy firefights. Whilst I never asked the question, he knew I knew what he meant. Only a few weeks ago an ex RM was killed in action. Now, I don't know the full story, but he was in a heavy firefight but only went out there as a 'medic'? My point being that both the lad I worked with and the ex-Marine are, or were, civvies - the same as the majority of those who fly out to fight for the 'baddies'. Now, are those guys being labelled as terrorists? No. However, from some of the comments I have read so far (and on the internet in general), these three young impressionable girls are labelled as 'scum' and/or 'terrorists'? Personally, I think that's out of order. That guy going round beheading people is a wrong'un but not all people who choose to get involved with this 'IS' are scumbags, many are just morons or fantasists.

As for some of the anti-religious stuff... I was raised as a Christian, went to Sunday School, Church and went to a C of E School. Did it close my mind for many years? Yes. did it do me any harm? No. Was there public demand for me, as a Christian, to publicly denounce 'Christian' terrorist group 'Army Of God' for their catalogue of atrocities? No. So why do we expect the same from regular run-of-the-mill Muslims? Today, I subscribe to most scientific theories but I still believe in a Creator (that doesn't necessarily mean a bearded guy in a toga). However, I don't really follow any religions... I 'get' some aspects of Christianity as I do Islam. If anything, I'm probably more akin to a Buddhist than anything else. Who cares?

Whilst I certainly don't agree with extremism of any kind - certainly not when it uses violence or intimidation, I neither agree with 'us' sticking our noses into other cultures or countries unless it's to prevent genocide or to help out in disasters. As history is written by the victors, it is easy to see how the Third Reich employed propaganda to push their cause. Today, I feel we're fed - as a nation - propaganda to maintain this 'us and them' thing we seem to have going on. In WW2 the free French who took up arms to fight the occupying German were referred to as the 'French Resistance'. I doubt the Germans saw them the same way. However, despite having been the occupying - sorry - 'liberating' force in Iraq and Afghanistan, those who fought against us with firearms and 'cowardly' IEDs (the same as what we used both in a paramilitary and until relatively recently, in a military capacity too), we called them 'insurgents', 'extremists' or 'terrorists'! The 'War on Terror'! It's all crap.

Regards, Sam
 
Sam B said:
My point being that both the lad I worked with and the ex-Marine are, or were, civvies - the same as the majority of those who fly out to fight for the 'baddies'. Now, are those guys being labelled as terrorists? No. However, from some of the comments I have read so far (and on the internet in general), these three young impressionable girls are labelled as 'scum' and/or 'terrorists'? Personally, I think that's out of order. That guy going round beheading people is a wrong'un but not all people who choose to get involved with this 'IS' are scumbags, many are just morons or fantasists.

As for some of the anti-religious stuff... I was raised as a Christian, went to Sunday School, Church and went to a C of E School. Did it close my mind for many years? Yes. did it do me any harm? No. Was there public demand for me, as a Christian, to publicly denounce 'Christian' terrorist group 'Army Of God' for their catalogue of atrocities? No. So why do we expect the same from regular run-of-the-mill Muslims? Today, I subscribe to most scientific theories but I still believe in a Creator (that doesn't necessarily mean a bearded guy in a toga). However, I don't really follow any religions... I 'get' some aspects of Christianity as I do Islam. If anything, I'm probably more akin to a Buddhist than anything else. Who cares?

Whilst I certainly don't agree with extremism of any kind - certainly not when it uses violence or intimidation, I neither agree with 'us' sticking our noses into other cultures or countries unless it's to prevent genocide or to help out in disasters. As history is written by the victors, it is easy to see how the Third Reich employed propaganda to push their cause. Today, I feel we're fed - as a nation - propaganda to maintain this 'us and them' thing we seem to have going on. In WW2 the free French who took up arms to fight the occupying German were referred to as the 'French Resistance'. I doubt the Germans saw them the same way. However, despite having been the occupying - sorry - 'liberating' force in Iraq and Afghanistan, those who fought against us with firearms and 'cowardly' IEDs (the same as what we used both in a paramilitary and until relatively recently, in a military capacity too), we called them 'insurgents', 'extremists' or 'terrorists'! The 'War on Terror'! It's all crap.

Regards, Sam
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Sam, I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. If atrocities are committed against your nation, and if it appears that those committing the atrocities are growing in strength and in numbers, then fighting against them to try to end ongoing slaughter is not the same. You might want to look up the definition of terrorism.

Moron or not, fantasist or not, anyone who decides to get involved (for whatever reason) with a despicable terrorist group arguably deserves the scumbag moniker.

I too was raised Christian, and was sent to Sunday school (although I can't help feeling that most parents did this so that they could have some sort of sex life). When I was old enough to think for myself I decided I did not want to be part of any religion. I have nothing against anyone who does - but all too often I have been vilified, excluded and ostracised simply because I do not share the same religious beliefs as some of the individuals (Christians) I have encountered in my lifetime. I understand why so many people feel drawn towards one faith or another, but all too often this is at the expense of acceptance and empathy.

My belief is that if our nationals, or the citizens of our allies, are brutally executed then we have every right to retaliate - you may see this as 'sticking our noses in' but I see it as justifiable sanction against those whose actions are reprehensible and repugnant. This is not propaganda - it is fact.
 
Lindsay D said:
Sam, I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. If atrocities are committed against your nation, and if it appears that those committing the atrocities are growing in strength and in numbers, then fighting against them to try to end ongoing slaughter is not the same. You might want to look up the definition of terrorism.
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You might want to look up the definition of mercenary.

I am not condemning the use of HM Armed Forces to tackle these IS militants, my point being BRITISH nationals, often ex-military, fly out to fight illegally for whoever pays the most money. Maybe if they weren't predominantly white, ex-military and non-Muslims, they would be more interest to the tabloid press. What's the difference between these British mercenaries going out fighting for whoever pays the most money (this could be against civilians, non-combatants and Western soldiers) and those who fly off to join some Jihad group? I would argue that at least the disillusioned Jihadist has some conviction with what they're fighting for. They're two sides of the same coin.

Lindsay D said:
...belief is that if our nationals, or the citizens of our allies, are brutally executed then we have every right to retaliate - you may see this as 'sticking our noses in' but I see it as justifiable sanction against those whose actions are reprehensible and repugnant. This is not propaganda - it is fact.
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Okay, can you explain to me how our, or our allies' citizens, were 'brutally executed' by the Governments and peoples of Iraq or Afghanistan? Furthermore, why is it 'we' didn't go in and bomb China, Russia or North Korea? - There's plenty of atrocities going on there! You've cherry-picked my 'sticking our noses in' comment for an argument against these IS fighters and beheadings; I have no problem getting back our captive nationals or retaliating against those who murdered them. I am not disputing the fact that three British girls went over to Syria to join some IS soldiers, my point regarding 'propaganda' was how spin is put onto these kind of stories and how people - usually the far right - use it to fuel their anti-Muslim rants. How may British soldiers do you think would have been killed without us embarking on Herrick or Telic? Have we done any good?

Lindsay D said:
moron or not, fantasist or not, anyone who decides to get involved (for whatever reason) with a despicable terrorist group arguably deserves the scumbag moniker.
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I was a tool in my late teens. Most of my mates were. I had fads, I was easily influenced in my politics and developed crushes on girls - This was back in the day before broadband, social media and round the clock news... since then all those things have come about and, furthermore, those three Muslim girls have seen Muslim countries getting battered on TV their whole lives.... can you not see how vulnerable they were to extremists? I guess it's easier just to give them the handle of 'scumbag' eh?

Regards, Sam
 
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