These young girls travelling to Syria

Unbelievable, so they don't speak out but when sniffing a bit of compensation and against the authorities they are happy to speak out. I bet that if the police contacted them beforehand they would have contacted cage and filed a complaint regarding harassment.

I've been giving them the benefit of doubt but this is just taking the p***.
 
Unbelievable, so they don't speak out but when sniffing a bit of compensation and against the authorities they are happy to speak out. I bet that if the police contacted them beforehand they would have contacted cage and filed a complaint regarding harassment.

I've been giving them the benefit of doubt but this is just taking the p***.
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And you complain about lack of sympathy on a rumour about a dog????? Right, astonishment at hypocrisy aside, in the real world, that's how people act. They are not very nice on the whole, you get used to it.

To be fair, I think the parents are having their strings pulled by the 'legal advisers'. It's pretty much par for the course, but there's also big holes in whats being claimed if you look. Expect a great deal more blame everyone else for a while. Police wont hit back because everyone's too scared of the PC repercussions.
 
Wooster.... It's a FACT RELIGION causes more grief. Look at the history of the World man , not blind are you????? No you are not.

It's just for the weak minded and those need something to cling to and hope for rather than dealing with real life and getting on with it.

Now this is a FACT and MY opinion - Every shred of evidence shows that the majority of the world's ills and atrocities are caused in the name of religion. I will also add that most of the religious people I've met have been amongst the most bigoted, judgemental, dishonest you could ever meet.

But religious people are never Wrong because they BELIEVE, Hallah loo ya!!!

Wish I could see the faces of all the worlds people that shrug off their mortal coil and find there is NO resurrection. No Afterlife. No Reincarnation. I do hope in those that believe in reincarnation they come back as CHICKEN. That would p*** them big time!!

I have friends who great had bad time on drugs and rock n roll then turned to be born again..... totally lost the plot.

Pagans worshipped the Sun the stars, Animals, mythological creatures and then you have the modern and mainstream.... ancient Mayans did human sacrifices. Christians fought Muslims, Christians fought other Christians (Catholics & Protestants) And those read the from the same great book.

Religion stops science, and forward thinking.

And why do most call for a God when they are in trouble?? You get into a mess get your self out. That's life.

When you're lost at sea who helps you, God? no the Coast Guard. Who saves you from a car wreck? God? Nope Fire service and medical team. MAN.

how-man-was-created.jpg

The Truth is out there.
 
Daryl said:
Wooster.... It's a FACT RELIGION causes more grief. Look at the history of the World man , not blind are you????? No you are not.

It's just for the weak minded and those need something to cling to and hope for rather than dealing with real life and getting on with it.

Now this is a FACT and MY opinion - Every shred of evidence shows that the majority of the world's ills and atrocities are caused in the name of religion. I will also add that most of the religious people I've met have been amongst the most bigoted, judgemental, dishonest you could ever meet.

But religious people are never Wrong because they BELIEVE, Hallah loo ya!!!
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Sorry Daryl, but its not a fact. Name say 3 major wars fought over religion in say the last 300 years? - maybe the flair ups in Kashmir, but maybe not. Again your facts are wrong about the majority of the world ills. The majority of the worlds atrocities have little or nothing to do with religion. And even the relativly few that could be argued sensibly that way can equally be argued on ethnic or other grounds as well. Of course as with every group of people their are cocks who'll hide what they do behind any handy flag. I do agree there are, and have been some very scary people.

I'd agree also I've met some very bigoted, judgemental & dishonest religous people. Some of whom were turely scary. But I've also met some very bigoted, judgemental & dishonest people who had no time for any religous people whatsoever. Some of whom were turley scary too. By the same count I've friends who are nothing but kind, generous & open minded, of both persusasions. Being 'religous' has little to do with that

I'd go further, and argue that the majority of attrocities, say in the last 150 years or so have been commited against religon and by aethists who wish to stamp there view on the world, and will hear no other.

They might just have to do with those squirrel balls though
 
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boyfalldown said:
Sorry Daryl, but its not a fact. Name say 3 major wars fought over religion in say the last 300 years? -
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It depends on your definition of major - the major 20th century wars werent religiously motivated but theres any ammount of hassle that was

Northern Ireland , various Arab vs Isreali conflicts ( 48, 1969, 7 days war etc) (its easy to say that its not about religion but teritory, but the palestians are just semites who changed religion under the turks , had they not they'd be jews ), Lebanon (marionite christians vs Muslims with isreal weighing in on the Christian side), various trouble arround partition in India and lots of subsequent trouble between pakistan and india (muslim vs hindu). Any ammount of agravation in central africa (of which the actions of the lords resistance army are the most obvious example), islamic insurgency in the philipines (well before the current problems), christians vs muslims in the sudan , Iraq vs Iran (Sunni vs Shia Islam) Plus of course all the current aggro arround the war on terror AQ/taliban/IS./boko haram etc

- pretty much any trouble spot in the world (excepting those stirred up by communisim - although marxism/lenisim is quite similar to a religion , with lenins ebalmed body as the godhead) and at least one side, and quite often both are religious nutters
 
big soft moose said:
It depends on your definition of major - the major 20th century wars werent religiously motivated but theres any ammount of hassle that was

Northern Ireland , various Arab vs Isreali conflicts ( 48, 1969, 7 days war etc) (its easy to say that its not about religion but teritory, but the palestians are just semites who changed religion under the turks , had they not they'd be jews ), Lebanon (marionite christians vs Muslims with isreal weighing in on the Christian side), various trouble arround partition in India and lots of subsequent trouble between pakistan and india (muslim vs hindu). Any ammount of agravation in central africa (of which the actions of the lords resistance army are the most obvious example), islamic insurgency in the philipines (well before the current problems), christians vs muslims in the sudan , Iraq vs Iran (Sunni vs Shia Islam) Plus of course all the current aggro arround the war on terror AQ/taliban/IS./boko haram etc

- pretty much any trouble spot in the world (excepting those stirred up by communisim - although marxism/lenisim is quite similar to a religion , with lenins ebalmed body as the godhead) and at least one side, and quite often both are religious nutters
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The thing is though, all of those conflicts could sensibly be argued they were on ethnic or other grouinds as well. Thats where it gets a little hard to argue religon is the cause (or atleast the sole cause. I'd agree some hassle, but I'd bet that hassle would happen anyway if the name was hug on another banner. Its very easy to blame religion for alot of thing, when in reality it was jus a handy banner for evil people to blame for their own evil deeds.

That, to me is where it becomes pretty grey. I bet exactly non of those hotspots you mention would become any less problemic if magicall you could take religon away.
 
But I've also met some very bigoted, judgemental & dishonest people who had no time for any religious people whatsoever.
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Yes but they don't pretend to be holier than though b******t. If you follow a religion you should have good clean thoughts and not have naughty thoughts about your neighbours wifes Badger..

1:Lebanese Civil War = between s***e Muslim. Lebanese Christian and Sunni Muslim.
2: Chinese Dungun Revolt. 1877
3: Sudanese Civil War

...... and if you google you find shed loads more.........Christian verses Christian, Christian vs Muslim. These 2 always knocking 7 bells out of each other or with in them selves over last 1000 years.​
 
I fail to see why the Met should apologise for these people deciding to go to Syria.
 
Daryl said:
Yes but they don't pretend to be holier than though b******t. If you follow a religion you should have good clean thoughts and not have naughty thoughts about your neighbours wifes Badger..

1:Lebanese Civil War = between s***e Muslim. Lebanese Christian and Sunni Muslim.
2: Chinese Dungun Revolt. 1877
3: Sudanese Civil War

...... and if you google you find shed loads more.........Christian verses Christian, Christian vs Muslim. These 2 always knocking 7 bells out of each other or with in them selves over last 1000 years.​
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That should be Shia Muslim Daryl. I am not religious but don't particularly like it when people spell Shia in that way.
 
Daryl said:
Yes but they don't pretend to be holier than though b******t. If you follow a religion you should have good clean thoughts and not have naughty thoughts about your neighbours wifes Badger..

1:Lebanese Civil War = between s***e Muslim. Lebanese Christian and Sunni Muslim.
2: Chinese Dungun Revolt. 1877
3: Sudanese Civil War

...... and if you google you find shed loads more.........Christian verses Christian, Christian vs Muslim. These 2 always knocking 7 bells out of each other or with in them selves over last 1000 years.​
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No, but they do act much the same way as people who base what they said on religion. They just have naughty thoughts on your wifes badger too. Not sure which is worse. Pretending to have no naughty thoughts, or being open about it. Still betting every one of thise conflicts you listed would have happened anyway....
 
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andy700 said:
I don't think anyone in their right mind does.
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I may be wrong, but I have not read,anywhere, of any UK authority rounding these people up and deporting them to Syria,or have I missed something?

Either way, they chose to go there, they must suffer the consequences of their actions and they should not be allowed back into this country. If that sounds harsh,then so be it.
 
Cobra said:
Ah of course, now I understand why they invented under floor heating too (y)
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Hmmm... Carpet burns or hypocaust burns?
 
andy700 said:
The slaughter of native American Indians by Christian European immigrants takes some beating.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/genocide5.htm

In the late 19th Century, the Catholic king Leopold of Belgium was responsible for the deaths of around 5 million natives of the Congo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congo_Free_State#Death_toll
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Absolutely horrific I agree, but nothing to do with religion. You'd be hard pressed to argue that the European treatment of the Americas was anything to do with religion, or the Belguim behaviour in Africa was anything but an attempt to rape the continent for its mineral wealth. The fact the king was Catholic isn't really relevant in that case
 
boyfalldown said:
Absolutely horrific I agree, but nothing to do with religion. You'd be hard pressed to argue that the European treatment of the Americas was anything to do with religion, or the Belguim behaviour in Africa was anything but an attempt to rape the continent for its mineral wealth. The fact the king was Catholic isn't really relevant in that case
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It certainly was, because we were taught at school that the native American was a savage, whereas the "nice" people from Europe were only trying to educate them.
 
The nice people from Europe were only trying to take over the new world. Their motivations certainly weren't education, money maybe. Land and power too. Even the link posted doesn't make a serious argument the motive was "education"
 
boyfalldown said:
The nice people from Europe were only trying to take over the new world. Their motivations certainly weren't education, money maybe. Land and power too. Even the link posted doesn't make a serious argument the motive was "education"
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You do not even realise what you have said!!!!
The early explorers were given the blessings of the various Popes. They were instructed that what they were doing was "God's will".
Christians regarded these poor people as lesser human beings.
 
andy700 said:
You do not even realise what you have said!!!!
The early explorers were given the blessings of the various Popes. They were instructed that what they were doing was "God's will".
Christians regarded these poor people as lesser human beings.
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Europeans may well have regarded these people as lesser human beings. But that has little to do with the predominant religion in Europe being Christianity.
The implication of the article you linked & your argument seems to be simply that because the genocide was conducted by Christians, then religion must have been their main motivation which isn't true.
 
Interesting evidence at the HASC today.

Police confirmed there are no checks on people leaving the UK. The airlines do not check young peoples permission to travel.

Ok, so firstly, no poo paddington. We already knew that (well, some of us did, and some didn't), but apparently came as a surprise to HMG. So should there be? As usual the members of the select committee seem to be in lala land, confusing fantasy with reality, as was pointed out by the Commish, showing an uncharacteristic grasp of the real world, it would be almost impossible to do, because of the numbers of unaccompanied minors.

However there was better news for those who wish to blame the Police for everything. The families, predictably blamed, yep, the Police.
 
I didn't see it, however I find it odd to hear that there are no checks on people leaving the UK. Although strictly speaking, yes the police doesn't perform those checks.
 
boyfalldown said:
That, to me is where it becomes pretty grey. I bet exactly non of those hotspots you mention would become any less problemic if magicall you could take religon away.
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Maybe - but equally some of those groups are ethnically similar - palestinians and (semitic) jews as mentioned , Pakinstanis and Some Indians and so forth

Also with regard to isreal even if we agree that the PLO/Hamas etc are motivated by wanting palestine back, theres still the issue that the reason the jews were so adamant they wanted Isreal rather than say a large chunk of canada (as was alledgedly offered) is religiously motivated...e.g that its the 'holy land' (take away religion and that chunk of teritorry has very little to commend it now that air/sea travel etc has negated the cross roads to the east - no natural resources to speak of.. yet with religion christians, jews and muslims have fought over who gets to be in charge of it for over a thousand years)
 
dejongj said:
I didn't see it, however I find it odd to hear that there are no checks on people leaving the UK. Although strictly speaking, yes the police doesn't perform those checks.
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Been like that for a while. It is a damned nonsense. Gov. does not have a clue who is in this country now. If people arrive on a short term visa there is no way of knowing whether they left before their visas expired.
 
arclight said:
Been like that for a while. It is a damned nonsense. Gov. does not have a clue who is in this country now. If people arrive on a short term visa there is no way of knowing whether they left before their visas expired.
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Well I know for a fact that is just not true. Counting in and out fair enough, although it would have helped if those in power actually commissioned that project and made funding available. However checks are happening, the vast majority fully automatic, there is also the capability to send a signal back to the check-in desk to refuse boarding. But everyone gets checked both on inbound and outbound travel and as long as they are in transit.
 
big soft moose said:
Maybe - but equally some of those groups are ethnically similar - palestinians and (semitic) jews as mentioned , Pakinstanis and Some Indians and so forth

Also with regard to isreal even if we agree that the PLO/Hamas etc are motivated by wanting palestine back, theres still the issue that the reason the jews were so adamant they wanted Isreal rather than say a large chunk of canada (as was alledgedly offered) is religiously motivated...e.g that its the 'holy land' (take away religion and that chunk of teritorry has very little to commend it now that air/sea travel etc has negated the cross roads to the east - no natural resources to speak of.. yet with religion christians, jews and muslims have fought over who gets to be in charge of it for over a thousand years)
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All true, but it does raise a couple a couple of questions. Most pertinent would be if the issues between India and Pakistan are purely religiously motivated then why do the same issues not exist between India and Bangladesh? All sprang from Indian partition after the Second World War.

I agree there is some religious motivation in Israel, but it's not the sole motive. There have been some pretty horrendous things done on both sides and I suspect to much bad blood to ever Reach a solution have to admit if I was offered a bit of Canada rather then my traditional home ( when I went to Israel I was fascinated people still cursed the Romans for destroying Judaea) that I'd been fighting for for years I wouldn't take it either. Not wanting to live in a snowy wilderness and all that. It's not that much of a wilderness Israel, and atleast it's warm
 
boyfalldown said:
I'd go further, and argue that the majority of attrocities, say in the last 150 years or so have been commited against religon and by aethists who wish to stamp there view on the world, and will hear no other.
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Committed against religion...by other religions! The atheists you're no doubt alluding to are probably Stalin, Mao Zedung or Pot? The main question though is did they commit those atrocities in the name of atheism, or were they atheists simply colonising/maintaining power by brute force? They would have used that force against religious and non-religious people.
 
Grayman said:
Committed against religion...by other religions! The atheists you're no doubt alluding to are probably Stalin, Mao Zedung or Pot? The main question though is did they commit those atrocities in the name of atheism, or were they atheists simply colonising/maintaining power by brute force? They would have used that force against religious and non-religious people.
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I'd probably agree with you, but equally religion against religion atrocities ( atleast in modern times) have everything to do with power and religion is simply a handy badge to hang your behaviour on, if you didn't use that you'd use something else I stead
 
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boyfalldown said:
why do the same issues not exist between India and Bangladesh? All sprang from Indian partition after the Second World War.
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Largely because India took Bangladesh (at the time east pakistan)'s side during their war of independence with Pakistan (at the time west pakistan) in 1971 - wthout indian help they probably would have lost. That said relations between india and Bangladesh havent been entirely cocapetic - there was for example a largish skirmish on the border in 2001 (while that was about teritory not religion per se - the reason they are seperate countries in the first place is religious noth ethnic diffences)

You've also got stuff like the Banga Senga terrorist group who want a sepratist hindu homeland in bangladesh who are aided of and on by the indians, and Huji (essentially Islamic jihad in bengali) who used to be aided in operations against india by the banglades govt, but rather p***ed on their chips by trying and failing to assassinate the bangladeshi president in 2005

(and yeah yeah wikipedia blah blah blah - but only for checking facts and dates - I already knew the outline )
 
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big soft moose said:
Largely because India took Bangladesh (at the time east pakistan)'s side during their war of independence with Pakistan (at the time west pakistan) in 1971 - wthout indian help they probably would have lost. That said relations between india and Bangladesh havent been entirely cocapetic - there was for example a largish skirmish on the border in 2001 (while that was about teritory not religion per se - the reason they are seperate countries in the first place is religious noth ethnic diffences)

You've also got stuff like the Banga Senga terrorist group who want a sepratist hindu homeland in bangladesh who are aided of and on by the indians, and Huji (essentially Islamic jihad in bengali) who used to be aided in operations against india by the banglades govt, but rather p***ed on their chips by trying and failing to assassinate the bangladeshi president in 2005

(and yeah yeah wikipedia blah blah blah - but only for checking facts and dates - I already knew the outline )
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I'd not even thought wiki Pete :). It's not the flashpoint Kashmir is though. It's easy (& I know we could both do this) to find facts and questions to support do our arguments.
 
boyfalldown said:
I'd not even thought wiki Pete :). It's not the flashpoint Kashmir is though. It's easy (& I know we could both do this) to find facts and questions to support do our arguments.
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I didn't intend that wiki remark to be aimed at you Hugh (it was more aimed at the usual suspects in that regard)

End of the day i wouldn't go as far as daryl on the religion is the root of all evil thing - human nature is the root of all evil, religion (and politics) are just a convenient excuse , and a common aliais for greed and power.

I would agree however that much of the world would be better off without organised religion , if only because of the 'opium of the people' effect , in keeping the proles in check... "you'll get your reward in heaven/praradise so please work yourselves to death/ go off and fight like good little peasants"
 
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