These young girls travelling to Syria

big soft moose said:
Ive already taken the queens shilling thanks - i'm about 20 years too old now, but if i were in my 20s again i'd be up for going to fight (thats what soldiers do)
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Did you go to war & kill,I mean really close up so you could smell their breath,and dig the enemy out street by street ,house by house.
 
simonblue said:
Did you go to war & kill,I mean really close up so you could smell their breath,and dig the enemy out street by street ,house by house.
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Not personally no, although i was prepared to (it was afterall the infantry I was in) - but many of my freinds either were or are still in

I have to turn this round and ask if you've been closer to it than your xbox , as you are sounding like cliched advert for COD urban warfare
 
These girls shouldn't be allowed back unless they are going to prison for treason.
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Well, one thing that they ain't going to get charged with is treason. Quite apart from there being absolutely not evidence of any offence under the Treason Act, to do so would mean acknowledging that there's a war against IS. That isn't going to happen. The second of those is why Irish terrorism was never charged as Treason.

In other news, Jihadi John has been named. That should add to the amusement value of this subject no end........
 
Well, presumably they'll be having reular sex with their holy warrior husbands soon, along with the spoils of war like other womens cloths and belongings. Soon to be followed by widow-hood classes. They'll miss out on regular education but hey, they'll probably get to meet lots of new, interesting people and watch them being beheaded.
 
big soft moose said:
Not personally no, although i was prepared to (it was afterall the infantry I was in) - but many of my freinds either were or are still in

I have to turn this round and ask if you've been closer to it than your xbox , as you are sounding like cliched advert for COD urban warfare
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I thought not,because if you had you know exactly what I am talking about.
 
Farmerjim said:
Well, presumably they'll be having reular sex with their holy warrior husbands soon, along with the spoils of war like other womens cloths and belongings. Soon to be followed by widow-hood classes. They'll miss out on regular education but hey, they'll probably get to meet lots of new, interesting people and watch them being beheaded.
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So not just blood on the terrorist hands?

I've no doubt they'll be rewarded with 'marriage' and not used in the way they thought they would be. I also doubt once the reality hits they won't be seen again, won't be allowed out and will soon be regretting their loss of western freedoms.
 
just interested where you smelt their breath. My overriding impression was the smell of burning
 
dejongj said:
I'm not normally so generous and are a very strong supporter of personal responsibility. However, regardless of what they get themselves involved in, these are still only 15 year old girls. They are still children.

I think as a society we should try and get them back and provide the support to them and their families.

If my 15 year old daughter goes missing, yes she knows the code to our safe where the passports are, and has money in the bank to pay for a ticket, I would hope the authority and fellow countrymen support me getting her back.

At 15 I thought I knew it all, I know now that I didn't even begin to realise what I didn't know. They are children, let's support their safe return.
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These aren't 15yr olds who have run away from home to some holiday resort to enjoy themselves, they have run away to marry into a terrorist group who's beliefs and actions they have obviously seen in the newspapers, on the internet and on TV. They are in support of the terrorists ideals and have turned their backs on the lives they had in this country. Because of their Muslim faith, that life may not have been the same as yours or mine, but it will certainly be different to what they will be joining. Even if what that married life does not become ideal once they get their, they are still supporters of what this terrorist group are all about. For that matter alone, they pose a threat to our society, they may well not come back as potential killers themselves but just their ideals which they can pass onto others still poses a threat to our society. For that matter and that matter alone and regardless of age, I stand by my very first statement in this thread, It's better they have left this country and our society as there is every chance they can do less damage to us from there than if they were still here, brought back or allowed to return under their own steam. In my opinion, they can't be trusted, no matter how much counselling is thrown a them.
 
mickledore said:
And his Civil Liberties champion said that he....
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I watched Channel 4 News, where John Snow was talking to another "apologist" who described "Jihadi John" as the "most beautiful person" he had met. Obviously he had not witnessed the atrocities this guy had committed. We then had the views of a British convert to Islam saying that it was all the fault of the West, that these barbarians were slaughtering other Muslims thousands of miles away.
 
andy700 said:
I watched Channel 4 News, where John Snow was talking to another "apologist" who described "Jihadi John" as the "most beautiful person" he had met. Obviously he had not witnessed the atrocities this guy had committed. We then had the views of a British convert to Islam saying that it was all the fault of the West, that these barbarians were slaughtering other Muslims thousands of miles away.
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He made his choices long ago,for me hopefully a bomb will hit him direct gone nothing left of him,let not make him a martyr.
 
Just a thought. Lets imagine a 15 yo girl had been groomed to become involved in sexual relations with a group of middle aged men - let's say the men were Asians in Bradford and the girl was white. Would we be saying it was her choice and she was old enough to live by the consequences ? I doubt it.

I understand that most of us want to see ISIS taken out asap but we should try and resist prejudice confusing facts.
 
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nilagin said:
These aren't 15yr olds who have run away from home to some holiday resort to enjoy themselves, they have run away to marry into a terrorist group who's beliefs and actions they have obviously seen in the newspapers, on the internet and on TV. They are in support of the terrorists ideals and have turned their backs on the lives they had in this country. Because of their Muslim faith, that life may not have been the same as yours or mine, but it will certainly be different to what they will be joining. Even if what that married life does not become ideal once they get their, they are still supporters of what this terrorist group are all about. For that matter alone, they pose a threat to our society, they may well not come back as potential killers themselves but just their ideals which they can pass onto others still poses a threat to our society. For that matter and that matter alone and regardless of age, I stand by my very first statement in this thread, It's better they have left this country and our society as there is every chance they can do less damage to us from there than if they were still here, brought back or allowed to return under their own steam. In my opinion, they can't be trusted, no matter how much counselling is thrown a them.
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However, that's not the basis of the uk criminal system. It's based on the Christian values of redemption, that you pay your debt and continue with your life. You even get your sentence reduced for showing remorse.
 
Just a thought. Lets imagine a 15 yo girl had been groomed to become involved in sexual relations with a group of middle aged men - let's say the men were Asians in Bradford and the girl was white. Would we be saying it was her choice and she was old enough to live by the consequences ? I doubt it.

I understand that most of us want to see ISIS taken out asap but there's we should try and resist prejudice confusing facts.
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Would make sense, if they were 'groomed', which is far from certain as things stand.
 
big soft moose said:
'abandonment' of these teenagers is actually what they themselves have chosen - and appear to want. They've gone voluntarily and of their own free will to join a terrorist organisation overseas
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That is indeed what it seems like, and I'm convinced they've done that out of free will. But you know what, so what. As a parent I'll always be there to help them out when they do stupid things, it is part of growing up. This one is as stupid as it gets, but I would never ever leave them. They are still children and just don't have enough life experience to fully realise the consequences of their live choices.

When they are old enough and don't require parental consent to get married or vote or even work full time, sure different matter.
 
ST4 said:
Yes, but lets take a step back. A 15yo educated person in the western world is capable of telling right from wrong, good from evil. They are old enough to take resposiibility for their actions, they are above the age of criminal responsibility.

They leave the UK, their family and head to a country to join a terrorist organisation for whatever reason. They've disenfranchised themselves from the country they were born into, their family etc of their own voliation, and if not haven't alerted authorities to they've been co-erced into going. Young people get lambasted for supporting the EDL, etc, but ISIS are as bad, if not worse. What's the difference.

Being 15 is great, getting boozed up with your mates, smoking, joy riding, all part of misdemeanour of youths. Joining terrorist organisations....not so.
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Smoking and joyriding aren't great choices either. Nor the times I was too drunk to find my own keys and open the front door. Don't forget the world has changed, international travel and migration is normal for the fast majority now. It is not that long ago that many people didn't have a holiday abroad, now many see it as a right :God:
 
There didn't seem to be any coercion in the pictures at the airport. Didn't one of them steal her older sister's passport to hide suspicion?
Seems to have been a premeditated and willing action on their part.
Not to worry, they are all pregnant now and living in a mud hut. Their choice; leave them to it - forever.
 
dejongj said:
Smoking and joyriding aren't great choices either. Nor the times I was too drunk to find my own keys and open the front door. Don't forget the world has changed, international travel and migration is normal for the fast majority now. It is not that long ago that many people didn't have a holiday abroad, now many see it as a right :God:
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Murder and destruction aren't a right, despite what jihadists say. These girls being brought up here in the UK would know that.
 
nilagin said:
These aren't 15yr olds who have run away from home to some holiday resort to enjoy themselves, they have run away to marry into a terrorist group who's beliefs and actions they have obviously seen in the newspapers, on the internet and on TV. They are in support of the terrorists ideals and have turned their backs on the lives they had in this country. Because of their Muslim faith, that life may not have been the same as yours or mine, but it will certainly be different to what they will be joining. Even if what that married life does not become ideal once they get their, they are still supporters of what this terrorist group are all about. For that matter alone, they pose a threat to our society, they may well not come back as potential killers themselves but just their ideals which they can pass onto others still poses a threat to our society. For that matter and that matter alone and regardless of age, I stand by my very first statement in this thread, It's better they have left this country and our society as there is every chance they can do less damage to us from there than if they were still here, brought back or allowed to return under their own steam. In my opinion, they can't be trusted, no matter how much counselling is thrown a them.
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You jumped to a number of conclusions you can't possibly know by filling in the blanks with your assumptions.

Yes we see and are fed the awful images of what deash gets up to, not just the killings but also the destruction of art and everything. And I am really against them and do think that Muslims all around the world need to fight them and take back their faith and very publicly through actions (no more of these weasel words about being s peaceful faith please).

However in any conflict there are those innocents which truly suffer. Suffer that most wouldn't have got the foggiest about of what it means from their comfy UK arm chairs. When you get drawn into that side when you are young, caring and smart I can imagine it would seem incredibly unfair and that you want to help them at any cost.

And from having heard that first hand experience from my parents, it is actually great when those kind of people are around. Without them many wars would have been so much worse for those cut inbetween.

Sure it is incredibly stupid and dangerous to go out there. But so far there is actually no evidence that these girls are jihadists and until such time I strongly belief and would urge others not to give up on them.
 
mickledore said:
Not to worry, they are all pregnant now and living in a mud hut.
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Wow. Just Wow!

Have you travelled much or just relying on your bigoted views? The main city of Ar-Raqqah was modern with historical buildings
 
Byker28i said:
Wow. Just Wow!

Have you travelled much or just relying on your bigoted views? The main city of Ar-Raqqah was modern with historical buildings
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To be fair it may have been but images of such places now are different with shell damage etc. mud hut is probably close to it.
 
Mud huts with straw roofs are an aspirational dwelling here in the UK - nice little thatched cob cottage anyone?
 
Nod said:
Mud huts with straw roofs are an aspirational dwelling here in the UK - nice little thatched cob cottage anyone?
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Mickledore used it in a derogatory fashion with racist overtones. Sorry but thats unnecessary and detracts from valid arguments about these girls actions
 
Byker28i said:
Mickledore used it in a derogatory fashion with racist overtones. Sorry but thats unnecessary and detracts from valid arguments about these girls actions
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Therer were no racist overtones at all. I am reporting your post.

In fact I consider your totally unwarranted racist slur as a racist remark in itself. You must apologise imediately.
 
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come on kids..stop arguing. all this interesting discussion and you've all missed the fact that Moose has been in the army!
 
mickledore said:
Therer were no racist overtones at all. I am reporting your post.

In fact I consider your totally unwarranted racist slur as a racist remark in itself. You must apologise imediately.
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You owe me a keyboard. I just spat coffee on mine :lol:
 
mickledore said:
Therer were no racist overtones at all. I am reporting your post.

In fact I consider your totally unwarranted racist slur as a racist remark in itself. You must apologise imediately.
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Not at all - you know exactly what you wrote and in what terms. Still you carry on ramping up the moral indignation you have been spouting all over this thread.
 
Matt said:
come on kids..stop arguing. all this interesting discussion and you've all missed the fact that Moose has been in the army!
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Byker28i said:
Not at all - you know exactly what you wrote and in what terms. Still you carry on ramping up the moral indignation you have been spouting all over this thread.
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How much longer does this insult have to continue? Byker may well have ben security/army/police/special forces but that doesn't give him the right to impose his racist overtones onto my comments.

I have reported this post to both mods and admin. When am I going to get an apology for the racist slurs imputed to me?
 
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