These young girls travelling to Syria

viv1969 said:
10 commandments?
Try 67.
Or the 600-odd in the torah.
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my recollection from
Sunday school is that Moses came
down from the mountain with two tablets with 10 commandments on them.

can you imagine teaching kids

Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death. (Ex 22:19)

and what kind of commandment is

Do not cook a young goat in its mother's milk. (Ex 23:29) lol
 
gramps said:
Actually 2nd Chronicles doesn't speak of 'non-believers' it speaks of the Israelites who were in a covenant with God under the Mosaic Law and it wasn't changed as a result of society's morality it was changed by God in bringing the Mosaic Law to an end and introducing the Christian church under Jesus Christ and the Law of Love.
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" and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death"

that says if you don't follow me (ergo a non-believer) you will be killed.
 
viv1969 said:
I was forced to attend religious educational facilities from and to the same ages, but even the frankly evil priests, nor their "brothers and sisters could force me to follow or believe the teachings.

The bible is indeed a "good book", but so are many other works of fiction. I didn't feel the need to live my life according to any of them.
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Although I was forced to follow the teachings, I never believed in them, due to the fact that "pressure was applied" in order to dissaude me from questioning various aspects of the "faith". When I questioned why we should not believe in the Egyptian, Greek and Roman Gods as well as our own, the only answer I ever received, was that there was only "one true God". When I asked for evidence of this, well that was when the relationship between me and the teachers (and my mother) started to go a bit wrong.
I saw whole groups of pupils in my classes, who were very subservient, particularly after they had been away on religious retreats for a week. They were also quite "evangelistic" after these events, and tended to form their own cliques, ignoring the "pagans or sceptics" in their midst.
Is the Bible a "good book"?. Well certainly the New Testament is full of fine examples of good behaviour and kind deeds, but the Old Testament is an absolute nightmare.
 
gramps said:
So you had a personally bad experience, that doesn't make all religion bad, it may well indicate that those who represented Christianity (I assume) to you failed to grasp it's concepts, particularly that of the qualities of love and kindness ... or of course it could be that you failed to understand the concepts of respect and consideration for others.
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Yes, I really do have a lack of respect for people who beat me and humiliated me, simply because I questioned something presented to me as fact regardless of the "fact" that there was no evidence.
I believe that I was quite well mannered at school, and I helped people.
However it seems to me that you may confuse respect and consideration with an adherance to "blind faith".
 
andy700 said:
I was forced to follow the teachings from the age of five to the age of sixteen, at which stage I decided to abandon the whole "religious gig" because it really did not make me very happy. Any time I challenged the teachings at school, I was humiliated or punished - or both, and the same happened at home.
What I understand, is that religion wishes people to conform "religiously" (there is a clue in that word which keeps cropping up) without trying to question or rock the boat. In their most extreme form, religions are utterly barbaric and kill people in horrific ways to send a message to people who would stand up to them.
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Imagine joining the Armed forces and putting None instead of a recognised one such as C of E as your religion. Weekly trips to the Padre...
From all my travels, I quite like the approach of Buddhism, all life is sacred
 
ST4 said:
You're trying to argue they shouldn't???
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jesus-facepalm.jpg
 
archangel said:
I always fancied the idea of Buddhism also.....
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don't see why, the first thing Buddha did on his path to enlightment was his abandonment of his wife and child, and Buddhism (like Catholicism) still exalts male monasticism as the epitome of spirituality.
 
POAH said:
don't see why, the first thing Buddha did on his path to enlightment was his abandonment of his wife and child, and Buddhism (like Catholicism) still exalts male monasticism as the epitome of spirituality.
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"Do not be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. Buddhist systems of thought are guiding means; they are not absolute truth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích_Nhất_Hạnh

I think it was more about leaving his life of luxury and privilege behind

...but there you go, a perfect example of people interpreting religions to suit their own purposes.
 
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good luck to them - they don't need to heat the swimming pools out there, loungers are in short supply but they should get a good tan if they take anything off .. but they will be in for a good "holiday romance"

we are told constantly that "children" of that age are so "grown up" and can make their own minds up

let them all go if they feel like it, I suppose that one day they will come back with 9 kids, husband and grand parents and the country will have to support them with money, a suitable house and sky TV
 
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Byker28i said:
"Do not be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. Buddhist systems of thought are guiding means; they are not absolute truth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích_Nhất_Hạnh

I think it was more about leaving his life of luxury and privilege behind

...but there you go, a perfect example of people interpreting religions to suit their own purposes.
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he was selfish and still left his wife and child and don't get me started on Karma either.
 
POAH said:
he was selfish and still left his wife and child and don't get me started on Karma either.
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No-one can get you "started on Karma" or anything else. It's entirely up to you if you want to discuss it.
 
andy700 said:
However it seems to me that you may confuse respect and consideration with an adherance to "blind faith".
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Not at all, I merely offered it as a possible alternative explanation but of course it could have been that you were the only one acting responsibly. As for "blind faith", that is of no use to anyone ... however many people assume that anyone who believes has "blind faith", just because they themselves cannot understand or do not have faith.

rick448 said:
Yes many times. But what is your point?
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Merely that I seem to recall that such atrocities and responses had already occurred in the UK ... London bombings 7/7/2005, London bomb attempts 27/6/2007, Lee Rigby 22/5/2013 ?
 
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gramps said:
As for "blind faith", that is of no use to anyone ... however many people assume that anyone who believes has "blind faith", just because they themselves cannot understand or do not have faith.
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That brings back memories, the shaking of the teacher's head, because I could not "understand" something which was itself based on a concept lacking any evidence whatsoever.
If I had my way, I would introduce a totally secular education system, where children are not allowed to be indoctrinated into any one faith whilst at school, but are taught about various faiths and belief systems in a special lesson.
 
gramps said:
Merely that I seem to recall that such atrocities and responses had already occurred in the UK ... London bombings 7/7/2005, London bomb attempts 27/6/2007, Lee Rigby 22/5/2013 ?
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Yes I know that, but this latest bunch of murderers are taking things to a new level. Even Al-Qaeda didn't stoop to the levels of this latest lot. Anyway I think I'll stick to discussing photography as keyboard discussions about politics or religion never end well.
 
andy700 said:
That brings back memories, the shaking of the teacher's head, because I could not "understand" something which was itself based on a concept lacking any evidence whatsoever.
If I had my way, I would introduce a totally secular education system, where children are not allowed to be indoctrinated into any one faith whilst at school, but are taught about various faiths and belief systems in a special lesson.
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Well it doesn't lack evidence but you clearly feel differently and most likely your teacher wasn't a believer and felt much the same frustrations as you.
In the main I think teachers are ill-equipped to teach religious subjects and I agree that it is generally not appropriate to have it taught in school ... indeed in my (and more importantly the Bible's) view, it is the responsibility of parents to teach their children about God ... sadly here too in the main we find that they are ill-equipped to do so.
In the main the UK is a totally secular society and can in no way be considered 'Christian', so it is not at all surprising that there is such a lack of ability to teach and understand the subject of God.
Those who do want to understand generally gravitate toward the most popular of the conventional churches in their area but one only has to look at the record of the 'conventional' churches to see why so many people have failed to grasp what God is all about.
 
rick448 said:
Yes I know that, but this latest bunch of murderers are taking things to a new level. Even Al-Qaeda didn't stoop to the levels of this latest lot. Anyway I think I'll stick to discussing photography as keyboard discussions about politics or religion never end well.
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It's all relative ... random killing (including burning on tube trains) verses targeted killing of specific religious groups or individuals.
Photography is a good discussion point too :)
 
gramps said:
Well it doesn't lack evidence but you clearly feel differently and most likely your teacher wasn't a believer and felt much the same frustrations as you.
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it does lack evidence but that is a topic for another thread ;)

gramps said:
In the main I think teachers are ill-equipped to teach religious subjects and I agree that it is generally not appropriate to have it taught in school ... indeed in my (and more importantly the Bible's) view, it is the responsibility of parents to teach their children about God ... sadly here too in the main we find that they are ill-equipped to do so.
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That is pretty wrong though, why shouldn't kids learn about religion school? Sadly it is a huge part of our history and learning about it can only be a good thing. My kids learn about different religions, their festivals but they are not taught that religion is correct. I'm certainly not ill-equipped to talk to my kids about god(s)
 
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POAH said:
That is pretty wrong though, why shouldn't kids learn about religion school? Sadly it is a huge part of our history and learning about it can only be a good thing. My kids learn about different religions, their festivals but they are not taught that religion is correct. I'm certainly not ill-equipped to talk to my kids about god(s)
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I would agree to the basic beliefs of different religions being taught, sort of like cultural information ... in fact providing such 'understanding' of the beliefs of others can only be good.
Where I disagree is the supposed teaching of a belief by someone who doesn't share that belief ... how can such a person effectively do that?
You may feel that you are equipped to teach your children about "gods" and indeed you maybe but from your posts I would say that you are not, only that you are equipped to give them your view of "gods".
 
gramps said:
I would agree to the basic beliefs of different religions being taught, sort of like cultural information ... in fact providing such 'understanding' of the beliefs of others can only be good.
Where I disagree is the supposed teaching of a belief by someone who doesn't share that belief ... how can such a person effectively do that?
You may feel that you are equipped to teach your children about "gods" and indeed you maybe but from your posts I would say that you are not, only that you are equipped to give them your view of "gods".
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you are not allowed to be taught like that in state schools, you can only be taught that religions exist and they do this and that you cannot in effect preach to them.

True I can only teach my kids about a few of the 3000 deities that have been worshiped over the 000's of years of mans existence but my view is unbiased which makes me better equipped than someone like you.
 
POAH said:
you are not allowed to be taught like that in state schools, you can only be taught that religions exist and they do this and that you cannot in effect preach to them.
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Unless I am mistaken, that was the issue that Andy had with regard to his 'religion' experience at school - it is a long while since I or my children were at school
POAH said:
True I can only teach my kids about a few of the 3000 deities that have been worshiped over the 000's of years of mans existence but my view is unbiased which makes me better equipped than someone like you.
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Is you view unbiased though?
 
gramps said:
Unless I am mistaken, that was the issue that Andy had with regard to his 'religion' experience at school - it is a long while since I or my children were at school


Is you view unbiased though?
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might be different in some schools I suppose but I've had no issue with the teachings my boys have had

of course my view is unbiased, why wouldn't it?
 
Steve Smith said:
Which is what?

Surely you have to have committed an offence here to be charged here. What was/is the offence?

Steve.
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true its entirely possible they have gone to Syria for humanitarian reasons rather than to join IS and take up jihad
 
POAH said:
might be different in some schools I suppose but I've had no issue with the teachings my boys have had

of course my view is unbiased, why wouldn't it?
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Your view comes across here as strongly opposed to any kind of faith, so on that basis it is unlikely to be objective and unbiased.
 
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Steve Smith said:
Which is what?

Surely you have to have committed an offence here to be charged here. What was/is the offence?

.
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No they don’t they could be charged under The Terrorism Act 2006 if found to be supporting IS in any way.
 
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ancient_mariner said:
Your view comes across here as strongly opposed to any kind of faith, so on that basis it is unlikely to be objective and unbiased.
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I've got no issue with religion so long as you keep to yourselves and keep it out of society. While I don't believe in a deity it is not down to faith but fact or lack of fact in this case which is where my unbiased option come from
 
Which is what?

Surely you have to have committed an offence here to be charged here. What was/is the offence?
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The first part,, depends on what they do in Syria. There's a range of offences covered by S17 Terrorism Act 2006.
S17 makes the list included in it offences that can be dealt with in UK law.

Of course it's possible they simply are there as part of ISIL's breeding program, in which case it may be difficult to fiond an offence. Also, they are under 18, so I doubt that they'd be prosecuted, more likely to undergo a "de radicalization" program, which would only relly work if they wanted to listen.
 
ST4 said:
Or just a holiday. I heard Syria like all good holidays costs an arm and a leg as it's such a blast
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:ROFLMAO:

joking aside i'm suprised that girls can join ISIL - do these medieval nut cases not see women as property and only good for three things ? (probably two things actually as i doubt much cleaning gets done)
 
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ST4 said:
Or just a holiday. I heard Syria like all good holidays costs an arm and a leg as it's such a blast
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Unbelievably hot as well, so hot that you will need Factor 1000 to deal with it. The travel countries always forget to tell you that your clothes should have a high proportion of kevlar in them, and make sure that you pack TCP and plenty of elastoplast.
 
Bernie174 said:
The first part,, depends on what they do in Syria. There's a range of offences covered by S17 Terrorism Act 2006.
S17 makes the list included in it offences that can be dealt with in UK law.

Of course it's possible they simply are there as part of ISIL's breeding program, in which case it may be difficult to fiond an offence. Also, they are under 18, so I doubt that they'd be prosecuted, more likely to undergo a "de radicalization" program, which would only relly work if they wanted to listen.
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So they're not prepared to wait for heaven for their virgins?
 
ST4 said:
Or just a holiday. I heard Syria like all good holidays costs an arm and a leg as it's such a blast
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Its a boom sector
 
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Bernie174 said:
Also, they are under 18, so I doubt that they'd be prosecuted, more likely to undergo a "de radicalization" program, which would only relly work if they wanted to listen.
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don't know how it works in England but you can be prosecuted if you are over 12 in Scotland
 
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