Theatre work and distribution of images

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JohnBoyUK

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Hi Guys. Hopefully you'll be able to point me in the right direction. Apologies if this is in the wrong section.

This time last year, I was asked to take some photographs of a theatre production in London for their 'press coverage'. Only a small affair on a small budget so was doing a friend and his wife a favour. As it turns out, the charity that part-funded the theatre production commissioned another photographer to come along to the dress rehearsal. I had no issue with that. It turns out that this photographer was a very big name (so I've since discovered looking on the web and does a huge amount of work for the BBC). There was me with my D750 and there was he with his two D5s with a 24-70 and 70-200 all ready to go. I sort of looked like the poor relation.

So took the photos that was requested alongside this big, spent a whole lot of time processing them afterwards in a very short amount of time and sent them over to my friends within 48hrs. I wasn't being paid but saw it as getting some much needed exposure and was under the impression these were going to be used in the press.

However, when the theatre reviews started appearing in the press a week later after the full press performance (including the Evening Standard, the Metro and the Sun), every single article had a photograph taken by the other guy. Ok, he's a top photographer, got no issue with that. But I'm keen to know how the press got hold of his photographs?

Do they get uploaded to a press website and they help themselves for a fee?
Do they get handed over to the theatre and they circulate the images?
Is this stock photography?

What is the normal process and procedure?

I'm asking now as the friend has just approached me to photograph his next production which would mean taking two days off work for no pay again but I'd like to try and get some exposure the effort deserves this time and hopefully see at least one of my photos in the press.
He's told me I'm the only photographer coming this time but I guess there's always the possibility that a journalist reviewer will always bring a photographer with them too... at least I'm going armed with twin D750s this time lol.

Any help/advice greatly received. Thanks.
 
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he was presumably hired by the PR department of the charity.

Their PR officers will have written a press release, and attached a selection of his images, which they then sent out to journalists who would be interested in writing about or featuring the show.


I would rather doubt that a journalist will bring a photographer with them. If yours are the only images that exist, then they're the ones that will get used - it is the job of your friends who are contacting the journalists who might be interested, to make sure that the images are forwarded on.
 
JohnBoyUK said:
which would mean taking two days off work for no pay again but I'd like to try and get some exposure the effort deserves this time and hopefully see at least one of my photos in the press.
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I know this is not your question, but I would not take time off work for something like what you describe. Rather, I would not lose two days pay. If you are self-employed fair enough, if you got spare hollidays fair enough. The press office may still ask the other photographer because they may need him for other events too or they are not willing to risk with an "amateur" and your friend may not be in a position to do anything about it.

EDIT. As an afterthought, set up your own website and use the best images. If they invited you, if you did not get paid let them object to you using them as part of your portfolio. Same applies if you go to the second event. Therefore, try to communicate with your friend in writing (email).
 
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Yes, really, there's no point in you going if there's a paid photographer attending as well. They are bound to use his work as they are paying for it. It might be worth it if it is a smaller production without a paid photographer.

But even then, you're on a bit of a hiding for nothing doing work for free in the hope of getting some exposure. I know everybody has to start somewhere but for every one who succeeds going down this route there must be dozens who don't.

It's tough.

Edit: I see no other photographer has been booked. It might be worth it in that case. But still my second paragraph above applies. (and the third.....)
 
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itsdavedotnet said:
he was presumably hired by the PR department of the charity.

Their PR officers will have written a press release, and attached a selection of his images, which they then sent out to journalists who would be interested in writing about or featuring the show.
I would rather doubt that a journalist will bring a photographer with them. If yours are the only images that exist, then they're the ones that will get used - it is the job of your friends who are contacting the journalists who might be interested, to make sure that the images are forwarded on.
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Ah. That would be why! I did wonder... thats definitely the plausable explanation!

TLR-330 said:
I know this is not your question, but I would not take time off work for something like what you describe. Rather, I would not lose two days pay. If you are self-employed fair enough, if you got spare hollidays fair enough. The press office may still ask the other photographer because they may need him for other events too or they are not willing to risk with an "amateur" and your friend may not be in a position to do anything about it.

EDIT. As an afterthought, set up your own website and use the best images. If they invited you, if you did not get paid let them object to you using them as part of your portfolio. Same applies if you go to the second event. Therefore, try to communicate with your friend in writing (email).
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Yes, to explain, I'm actually an Accountant who works in London rather than a Pro Photographer but with dreams of a career change. I'm fortunate that I've got some leave due and it would tie in nicely. As it happens, I've been offered £100 expenses as a thank you. Re: the website, that's exactly what I done this time last year. I put it down to experience and the shots I did get went on my website.
 
JohnBoyUK said:
Ah. That would be why! I did wonder... thats definitely the plausable explanation!



Yes, to explain, I'm actually an Accountant who works in London rather than a Pro Photographer but with dreams of a career change. I'm fortunate that I've got some leave due and it would tie in nicely. As it happens, I've been offered £100 expenses as a thank you. Re: the website, that's exactly what I done this time last year. I put it down to experience and the shots I did get went on my website.
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Oh dear!

Your chances of earning a salary in photography that'll compensate you for a career change from accountancy are very slim.

Photography is a great hobby, but it's only an OK business opportunity with a few exceptions.

Exposure is worth absolutely nothing, your portfolio has the same value whether the images were published or not, with the caveat that there a tiny bit of added value for opening doors, but again, your attitude and charm is worth a lot more than picture credits.
 
All in all ... fine if you think you will change career (you might indeed do so) but under the circumstances you can take the two days off and "enjoy" yourself.
 
Phil V said:
Oh dear!

Your chances of earning a salary in photography that'll compensate you for a career change from accountancy are very slim.

Photography is a great hobby, but it's only an OK business opportunity with a few exceptions.

Exposure is worth absolutely nothing, your portfolio has the same value whether the images were published or not, with the caveat that there a tiny bit of added value for opening doors, but again, your attitude and charm is worth a lot more than picture credits.
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Thanks Phil. I'm realistic to realise that photography would never be a full time job and it would never compensate for what I earn now but its always nice to daydream while sitting in the office in front of excel spreadsheets!
 
KIPAX said:
someone is in a kind mood then..
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The last two times I produced pics for a local theater group that is what I asked for (and got). Usually the technical run through or dress rehearsal takes place the day before, or even the morning of, the first performance so realistically too late to get prints made for display or into brochures.
The pics really become of use if the production gets a second run.
I license the pics to the company for "Flyers, posters and press releases" and usually get a few print sales to the cast and their families.
 
Graham W said:
The last two times I produced pics for a local theater group that is what I asked for (and got). Usually the technical run through or dress rehearsal takes place the day before, or even the morning of, the first performance so realistically too late to get prints made for display or into brochures.
The pics really become of use if the production gets a second run.
I license the pics to the company for "Flyers, posters and press releases" and usually get a few print sales to the cast and their families.
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It would seem the OP did the job for no pay and then got offered the money after the fact.. thats what suprised me... yes I do a few plays on dress rehersal night.. too late for flyers though.. I get paid what I ask for.... just seemed strange op got offered a payment after job done for no apparent reason.. least thats how it reads :)
 
KIPAX said:
.... just seemed strange op got offered a payment after job done for no apparent reason.. least thats how it reads :)
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I think the offer is for the next shoot he has been asked by his friend to do.
 
Seems like most stuff has been said here, but I'll add that in my time in the theatre industry having sat through many dress rehearsals with production photographers, I've never seen a journalist come to press night to review with a photographer in tow (the only exception here has been the odd occasion on amateur shows where the local rag has turned up) so you should be OK this time around.
 
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Sorry, let me explain myself properly.

Last year, I sat through the dress rehearsal on a Tuesday afternoon for 2.5 hours and a couple of evenings work going through them in LR and PS afterwards. No payment involved at all, other than getting my name in the programme as 'photographer'.
Surprisingly, even the theatre used the other guys photographs on the programme and the posters around the theatre!

Anyhow, this year, for his new play, I've been offered 'expenses' and a pair of complementary tickets for me and the Mrs. As its a mate, I actually wouldn't have asked for money as that isn't my motivation but as he is offering its a nice little bonus.
 
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