The virus. PPE. Part 1

[Marc]

This really bugs me - I see people round shops buying stuff in gloves and, if there are germs there, will no be on the tin of beans etc... you see them on a mobile which they probably dont wipe!!! Using PPE badly is more dangerous than using nothing for the general public

Exactly and you just reminded me of something I forgot to post above. A woman wearing gloves stopped at the car parked opposite and put her shopping in the boot. She then proceeded to remove her gloves by pulling at the fingertips!

 

[mex]

Exactly and you just reminded me of something I forgot to post above. A woman wearing gloves stopped at the car parked opposite and put her shopping in the boot. She then proceeded to remove her gloves by pulling at the fingertips!

Did she throw them on the floor along with her mask afterwards, something that has become a bit of a habit for some, it's probably because it says on the box 'disposable mask'.

 

[Tringa]

I have just seen Scientific American have made the June issue, which includes a report on Coronavirus, free to download -

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...g&utm_content=banner&utm_term=homepage-banner

 

[Marc]

Did she throw them on the floor along with her mask afterwards, something that has become a bit of a habit for some, it's probably because it says on the box 'disposable mask'.

No, she threw them into the boot of the car, probably so she can reuse them.

She wasn't wearing a mask.

 

[arclight]

No. It was a way of deflection the question. Do you really think he will go away and review it??

Later on in the evening it was announced that there would be no review. The minister does not have that power. The relative law was made by the parliamentary legislative process and can only be changed by that same process. What a bore that would be if we were subjected to more incessant fatuous debate.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

Later on in the evening it was announced that there would be no review. The minister does not have that power. The relative law was made by the parliamentary legislative process and can only be changed by that same process. What a bore that would be if we were subjected to more incessant fatuous debate.

If no review is required then Dom broke the law. If Dom didn't break the law, then neither did any of those other people, and there should rightly be a review of their cases.

 

[Donnie]

I would like to get some advice on purchasing PPE for my wife and me, we are both in the high-risk category and as such have only been out twice during the lockdown and then only for a car ride.
We would like to start going out on our scooters away from the crowded areas,i understand most face masks will offer us very little protection but i think we would feel better wearing one, at least we would feel we are doing our bit to protect others.
We are thinking of getting full-face visors and wearing disposable gloves.

Anyone got any links to the best places to buy these from and recommendations as to the specifications we should be looking for.

Thanks

No idea about masks etc (except there are lots of videos on homemade ones) but I’ve always bought gloves from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B008NIRXRY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

but I see those are “currently unavailable”. I’m not sure the usual disposable gloves would stand up to scooter riding/extended use, they tear fairly easil .

An N95 mask or a P3 half mask will do you. Unless you're going to go up close to people that are coughing you won't need a visor.

And unless you're going to change gloves every time you need to touch your face or whatever, then you're much better off just washing your hands.

I agree with this I take out hand sanitiser with me, partially because I hate some of the stuff the use in the shops
and it is far more useful if you are planning a picnic or anything whilst you are out

This ^^^

My wife had to pop into B&M the other day, I waited in the car. I saw quite a few people going in and out pushing trollies and wearing gloves. Utterly pointless as they'll no doubt touched stock and shelves and then touched other things spreading germs all over the place. the only way to use gloves effectively is to change them every time you've touched anything.

Best advice? Stay at home simple as that. If you really are in a high risk group then simply stay home as much as you really can. You need to decide if going out is essential or just to enjoy some fresh air and then it's all about risk but as soon as you go out that risk increases.

So, if you are hoping to mitigate it then yes, not being near anyone else is best in which case you don't need masks or gloves at all.
If there's a chance of running into others then if they are wearing a mask, you are already at less risk, YOU wearing one stops YOU coughing (most) germs at others, it won't protect you from others germs unless you wear a FFP3 mask, but which one will you wear? Who will train you in it's use? Who will mask fit test you? If you cannot answer those then even wearing an ffp3 is pot luck.

Gloves, don't need them outdoors simple. Key is washing hands, if you can't wash hands next best is hand sanitiser, and in either case don't touch something and then put hand to your mouth. I could put both my bare hands in a covid petri dish right now, not touch anything else for 10 minutes and as long as I then wash my hands properly etc not become infected. OK it's an extreme example but its true.

You'll see lots of people in shops with ill fitting masks and wearing gloves all the way round the shop, touching all sorts and then touching the mask, using their phones etc. All this is transmission and that's the key to breaking the infection. But people pop masks on and gloves then dont use them properly thinking they are safe. :-(

 

[Box Brownie]

Exactly and you just reminded me of something I forgot to post above. A woman wearing gloves stopped at the car parked opposite and put her shopping in the boot. She then proceeded to remove her gloves by pulling at the fingertips!

That description of usage immediately made me think of the old expression.........."all the gear but no idea...."

 

[Marc]

That description of usage immediately made me think of the old expression.........."all the gear but no idea...."

Don't even get me started on those who wear masks but have them below their nose so that they can breathe more easily.

 

[Tori_T]

Don't forget the ones shopping in masks and gloves, who pull the mask down the second they're out of the shop, pull a ciggy out of a packet using their (potentially contaminated) gloved hands, and put it in their mouth.
Why did they bother with the PPE?

 

[Marc]

Why did they bother with the PPE?

Placebo?

 

[Box Brownie]

Rather lost the plot as to where, in TP, this was being discussed......

It has struck me that the way the government are now in effect in regard to the Cummings furore saying "time to move on, nothing more to see........." has some synchronicity with "Stay at home............nothing more to know about
....stay at home........nothing more to know......"

In the latter there was, based on the way Cummings 'correctly' interpreted the full Covid19 instructions, more to know/be aware of but very few if any actually did know. Hence the public outrage!

In former, the government or should that be the cabinet cannot seem to grasp that the previously declared 'transparency' is not in this case :banghead:

 

[sphexx]

In normal times I use rubber gloves all the time when at the farm, partly to keep my hands clean but mainly for winter warmth (very thin but they make a huge difference, and act as a wetsuit when handling water. They do tear easily but as long as I wear the "extra large" ones - one size above my normal - I get reasonable use out of them.

Not only when handling water, keeping your hands dry makes a huge difference to keeping them warm.

For some low risk stuff I’m using the ordinary “heavy duty” household gloves because they are loose enough that I can get them on & off without touching the outsides but usually wash them while wearing them having got soap etc ready beforehand.

 

[Marc]

My 2 months of furlough ends on Friday. From Monday, I will be............








.......on another 2 months furlough! Think I'm going to need retraining when I eventually start back!

 

[sphexx]

Don't even get me started on those who wear masks but have them below their nose so that they can breathe more easily.

I‘m “shielding“ but have just done a hospital appointment and was given a mask for the first time. Nearly ripped it off because it took me back to wearing a gas mask as a child in WW2 (“Mickey Mouse mask” ), though only ever had to do it for practice but I found it unbearable no doubt due to being badly asthmatic then .

Second World War Gas Mask for Children 1981F97 by Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery, on Flickr

 

[Tringa]

Another one who can't stick to the rules - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-52819367 - the head of NHS Orkney

His reason for travelling from Orkney to his home on the Black Isle "on a few occasions" was he only did so when his family needed him.

He also said the health board could not function without movement of staff on and off the island. I'm sure that means moving on and off the island when it is essential for health reason, not just to pop home.

A couple of odd things in the article are

"The Scottish government has said Mr Stewart's role was "pivotal" and that he was allowed to travel when not working." and

"The board of NHS Orkney were aware of these journeys."

Think we might as well say good bye to any sort of restriction on movement now

Dave

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

Another one who can't stick to the rules - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-52819367 - the head of NHS Orkney

His reason for travelling from Orkney to his home on the Black Isle "on a few occasions" was he only did so when his family needed him.

He also said the health board could not function without movement of staff on and off the island. I'm sure that means moving on and off the island when it is essential for health reason, not just to pop home.

A couple of odd things in the article are

"The Scottish government has said Mr Stewart's role was "pivotal" and that he was allowed to travel when not working." and

"The board of NHS Orkney were aware of these journeys."

Think we might as well say good bye to any sort of restriction on movement now

Dave

The rules do allow travelling for work though and always have, provided you're one of the people allowed to work, and from the sounds of it, he's been staying on the island away from his family for the most part, which is in itself a sacrifice.

 

[arclight]

Another one who can't stick to the rules - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-52819367 - the head of NHS Orkney

His reason for travelling from Orkney to his home on the Black Isle "on a few occasions" was he only did so when his family needed him.

He also said the health board could not function without movement of staff on and off the island. I'm sure that means moving on and off the island when it is essential for health reason, not just to pop home.

A couple of odd things in the article are

"The Scottish government has said Mr Stewart's role was "pivotal" and that he was allowed to travel when not working." and

"The board of NHS Orkney were aware of these journeys."

Think we might as well say good bye to any sort of restriction on movement now

Dave

In reality the restriction on movement did not take very long to start breaking down after it's imposition and has been in decline ever since. I suspect that had it not been for the large number of people who have been laid off work/now working from home and many city centre shops that have been closed there would be a mass of people who would be travelling and covering large mileages.

 

[Deleted member 49549]

There must now be millions of people who have disregarded the legislation & guidelines. Disregard started from the minute that the legislation was enacted. Only a comparatively minute number have been fined. The punishment or the fear of being caught is not remotely a deterrent.
People who do all sorts of wrong often try to justify their action by claiming that they were inspired to do wrong because someone else did it. A pathetic excuse that flows from the mouths of liars.

The scientists are saying that Cummings actions are going to affect lockdown adherence, not some random that has been caught.

 

[Tringa]

The rules do allow travelling for work though and always have, provided you're one of the people allowed to work, and from the sounds of it, he's been staying on the island away from his family for the most part, which is in itself a sacrifice.

Ooops, missed that one, ie his normal home is on the Black Isle.

Dave

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

Ooops, missed that one, ie his normal home is on the Black Isle.

Dave

And the article says he and his daughter have been living in temporary accommodation on Orkney while she's also working on the frontline. So it's not like he's been flitting between homes for a jolly or an eye test.

And yet he still apologised.

 

[sphexx]

LLP has a science related PhD. No further comment.

Yes, I did know that, it was a, perhaps poor, attempt at humour with a grain of truth . The photographer blogger at “visualsciencelab” has a physics degree I believe .

 

[JohnC6]

LLP has a science related PhD. No further comment.

How the mighty have fallen

After my post last night expressing my astonishment I was thinking about some of his posts which seemed strange..like his reaction to the stop on his vaccination-related posts and was wondering if he has mental welfare issues of whatever nature rather than being a 'troll' as mentioned in a couple of posts ( I had to Google what that was btw) in which case I think it's really sad considering his very high academic achievement. Should this be the case and had I known it (which I wouldn't of course) I wouldn't have engaged him with my comments re religion recently.

Just seen your post,Richard. Considering the nature of some previous posts, over time..not just this vaccine-related episode,my feeling is that it wasn't a poor attempt at humour.

 

[arclight]

The scientists are saying that Cummings actions are going to affect lockdown adherence, not some random that has been caught.

Yes, loads of people have suddenly said "Look at what Cummings has done or look at what Stephen Kinnock has done. Effit I am not staying at home I am off out for a tour of the countryside and maybe look at a castle or two and check my eyesight."
The people who have broken the lockdown would do so no matter who else did or didn't break the lockdown. They don't need ideas put in their head by anyone else. Furthermore, anyone who sets out for a jaunt and maintains adequate person to person separation knows perfectly well that they are doing no harm.

 

[cambsno]

NSFW but cameras were at todays cabinet meeting!!! Try not to laugh too much!!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfMRrz45-PA&feature=emb_logo&fbclid=IwAR3wVfVUtLQXpR9XuGyzlnJBYcW4jOQfjjeY5il3LJTsZnzQCL_xNOW_tbU

 

[Retune]

View: https://BANNED/BrewDogJames/status/1265594264341405701

 

[jakeblu]

The scientists are saying that Cummings actions are going to affect lockdown adherence, not some random that has been caught.

Thats not going to make one iota of difference though, he's not going to get sacked or resign unless something else is uncovered.

 

[JohnC6]

They have been wanting to privatise the civil service for years looks like they are doing it now under cover of the virus
Very worrying that they are getting away with it

Cummings certainly has his eye on the Civil Service.I do wonder if it's why he might remain. He's described the concept of a permanent civil service as ' an idea for history books'
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-warned-civil-service-whitehall-shake-up-plan

I expect there'll be a few projects being carried out surreptitiously whilst everyone's eye is on COVID-19 and in this case no-one walking the woods re lockdown but protesters against HS2 found workmen cutting down ancient woodland weeks ago when the only people allowed to work were those classed as 'essential workers' . To make it worse they were (are) doing it during the bird nesting season.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...and-coronavirus-social-distance-a9484141.html

 

[JohnC6]

After a question at the daily briefing Matt Hancock was asked if those who had been fined for breaking lockdown rules and had driven because of being in the same position as DC would have them rescinded. He'd consult with colleagues, he said. He has and the answer is no. Obviously, by doing that they're admitting DC contravened the rules so in fairness the fines would have to be withdrawn...or prosecute him. A rock and a hard place comes to mind.

 

[JohnC6]

Boris Johnson is currently answering to the Home Affairs Committee live. It's on Five Live and BBC Parliament channel. Sky-504.

 

[sphexx]

After my post last night expressing my astonishment I was thinking about some of his posts which seemed strange..like his reaction to the stop on his vaccination-related posts and was wondering if he has mental welfare issues of whatever nature rather than being a 'troll' as mentioned in a couple of posts ( I had to Google what that was btw) in which case I think it's really sad considering his very high academic achievement. Should this be the case and had I known it (which I wouldn't of course) I wouldn't have engaged him with my comments re religion recently.

Just seen your post,Richard. Considering the nature of some previous posts, over time..not just this vaccine-related episode,my feeling is that it wasn't a poor attempt at humour.

There have been all sorts of dodgy characters in science and also “top” people who have near obsessions with ideas that turn out wrong (or right sometimes) . The “chief” of the anti-vaxxers, Andrew Wakefield is was a medical doctor and I have no idea what motivates him, probably just money now, and adulation from his followers .

Scientists are only human after all, mathematicians now ... .

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

Refusing to give clear advice to parents, apparently what Dr Harries said "Parent should only travel showing symptoms if there is an extreme risk of death" is exactly the same as what Jenrick said this morning which was "any parent can do what Dominic Cummings did". But that they should also stay at home, unless absolutely necessary.

Clear as mud.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

There have been all sorts of dodgy characters in science and also “top” people who have near obsessions with ideas that turn out wrong (or right sometimes) . The “chief” of the ant-vaxxers, Andrew Wakefield is was a medical doctor and I have no idea what motivates him, probably just money now, and adulation from his followers .

Scientists are only human after all, mathematicians now ... .

He wasn't even anti vaxx, he patented individual vaccines and needed to discredit a combined one. So is very much pro-vaccine, which makes it even more bizarre.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

mathematicians now ... .

I sense a Tom Lehrer song coming on...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL4vWJbwmqM

 

[Deleted member 49549]

Thats not going to make one iota of difference though, he's not going to get sacked or resign unless something else is uncovered.

I am not so sure (or perhaps its wishful thinking...)
If there are the numbers of backbenchers that are unsupportive that have been reported, there may come a tipping point where the cabinet around Johnson will have enough.

But, if ever there were a cabinet of spineless yes men it is this lot...

 

[sphexx]

I sense a Tom Lehrer song coming on...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL4vWJbwmqM

You definitely get an upvote for Tom Lehrer quote though I think neither he nor Lobachevsky were bonkers enough to qualify. I was thinking more of the likes of Alexander Grothendieck

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/201707/the-mad-genius-mystery

 

[Tringa]

Boris Johnson is currently answering to the Home Affairs Committee live. It's on Five Live and BBC Parliament channel. Sky-504.

Evading the questions when he can and looking very uncomfortable when he can't.

Dave

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

Jeremy Hunt clearly enjoyed getting Boris Johnson to make up another testing target on the spot.

 

[Deleted sulking member 63079]

200000 tests per day, all turned around within 24 hours.

He'd agree to providing the moon on a stick before he'd agree that Dominic Cummings broke the guidelines.

 

[Tringa]

Jeremy Hunt clearly enjoyed getting Boris Johnson to make up another testing target on the spot.

Yes, I thought that too. He is getting more like Trump - say anything that sounds good.

Yvette Cooper and Meg Hillier also made him squirm.


Dave