The virus. PPE. Part 1

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cambsno said:
This is something that bugs the hell out of me. My job involves data analysis and there are so many factors to consider. The other day someone was taking a pop at the US for having the most deaths, even though their population is more than Germany, Italy, UK etc... Deaths per million is more accurate but you also have to factor in many other things and it is not black and white. Italy are reported to be under counting and Belgium over counting also!

Lots of silly soundbites out there. A normally intelligent friend of mine posted a link to an Express article saying that deaths in Spain have increased since restrictions were lifted... but that would not have had an impact yet due to lag!!!
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There's long been a tendency among some in the UK and some other parts of the west who would see themselves as liberal to tend to have a bit of a simmering hatred for the USA. It's tempered if the right person is president but the wrong one is in at the moment so the hatred is hardly hidden and in fact the bias is often there to be seen, IMO.

Hating the USA is all well and good but if there's an argument at the bottom of it (immigration? Illegal wars?) then these USA hating liberal types should at least be consistent and shout just as loudly even when the right one is president. Obama and Clinton spring to mind and the deafening silence from some who shout so loudly now wiggy is president.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Perhaps you could give us some examples of where that was unfair? I can only think of one myself: David Kelly, who (allegedly) committed suicide after becoming the cheese in a sandwich with the BBC on one side and Tony Blair on the other. Neither piece of bread, in my opinion, behaved honourably.
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To be removed from the position may be fair but the rest?

As for examples, if your memory fails you you can Google. I'm not nit picking the merits of multiple examples with you all day. It's just mho. You can form your own.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I held the title "Data Analyst" on several contracts. The one thing I noticed was how often customers wanted "the right answer" and not "the correct answer". If you really wanted to send them into a tizzy, though, you just gave them an accurate answer and stood well back... :naughty:
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My boss does that - happy for my data when it proves her point, not interested when it doesnt!
 
Garry Edwards said:
Or it could be entirely accurate. Here's my source, reproduced without their kind permission:) Crappy phone picture, sorry.
View attachment 277958
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Any others apart from Serco. Serco don't appear to be affiliated to the Tories anyway, especially as alot of their contracts they have had over the years started in 1997. Looking at the areas they are involved in, they appear to be adequate candidates for the job.
 
cambsno said:
My boss does that - happy for my data when it proves her point, not interested when it doesnt!
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I used to do some stats on failure rates, performance stats, stuff like that and I added my predictions based on those stats. One report I did went ballistic, this was in the days before the net and going viral. People in high management I'd never heard of read it. I was right but it made no difference :D
 
I'm just thinking about what's set me off today :D and it's something that's bothered me for a long time.

I do agree with questioning authority figures, very much so and at every opportunity, it's something I do, but the objections, objectors and opposition have to be held to the same standards and heckling from the back just isn't enough. imo. There needs to be some substance.

It seems to me that the newspapers have been fit for nothing but the toilet and the backside or fish and chips for a long time, if honesty and unbiased reporting is what you want, but I expect more from the mainstream national TV news and topical programs and it seems that far too often these seem to just give a free platform to someone who could have another agenda other than the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. There must be people in these programs somewhere capable of comprehending what's being said and formulating probing questions to test what is being said but like todays ITN news imo far too often someone comes on and makes a statement which goes completely unchallenged. That has to be questionable practice, especially on a platform so important and visible as the national news.
 
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jakeblu said:
The Times, as well as other sources, have a report that Serco and possibly G4S will run the call centres to facilitate Contact Tracing. I've not included a link as its behind a paywall

Instead of insulting a member, actually a number of members, a quick two minute google search would have provided you with the answer.
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Seeing as the info is behind a paywall and you haven't provided any links to other sources, it's going to take more than a quick two minutes. But thenvyou obviously no concept of time, Two minutes is two minutes. It doesn't vary in length. ;)
 
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woof woof said:
What we have seen is people losing their jobs and reputations, being hounded by the media and social media and on occasions we've seen suicides too. I used a pit of poetic licence and lumped that as a crucifixion.
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As I keep seeing on Facebook,
"If the Media were to keep out of it 80% of the worlds problems would disappear."
 
nilagin said:
Seeing as the info is behind a paywall and you haven't provided any links to other sources, it's going to take more than a quick two minutes. But thenvyou obviously no concept of time, Two minutes is two minutes. It doesn't vary in length. ;)
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Lol, argument for arguments sake. It literally took me two minutes to google, saw the headline and click into the link and read the first paragraph which is available to non-subscribers.
 
nilagin said:
......Looking at the areas they are involved in, they appear to be adequate candidates for the job.
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Fiddling the figures is all they're adequate candidates for :D
 
Coronavirus: Black people four times more likely to die with COVID-19 than white people - ONS http://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...more-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-ons-11984448

I have seen this discussion on the media on several occasions and I am surprised nobody has mentioned vitamin D could be a contributing factor. A Dr John Campbell who is on YouTube on a daily basis states that the darker your skin is, then you absorb less vitamin D. He states that vitamin D boosts the immune system. I not saying this is the reason as it could be other things like genetics etc but I’m surprised nobody else seems to be talking about it.
 
joxby said:
It seems like there's a lot of tin foil hat crap going on with this app and contact tracing imo.
It just smacks of political whinge rather than genuine concern.

Who the hell would want the civil service or the council to do contract tracing, can't get them to empty ******* bins on time never mind do anything responsible.
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That might be because many of them have outsourced it to private contractors ;)

I'm pleased to report that my local authority collects my rubbish every week, without fail (y)
 
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nilagin said:
As I keep seeing on Facebook,
"If the Media were to keep out of it 80% of the worlds problems would disappear."
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messenger.jpg
 
Peter10d said:
Coronavirus: Black people four times more likely to die with COVID-19 than white people - ONS http://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...more-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-ons-11984448

I have seen this discussion on the media on several occasions and I am surprised nobody has mentioned vitamin D could be a contributing factor. A Dr John Campbell who is on YouTube on a daily basis states that the darker your skin is, then you absorb less vitamin D. He states that vitamin D boosts the immune system. I not saying this is the reason as it could be other things like genetics etc but I’m surprised nobody else seems to be talking about it.
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Same ONS report on the BBC says almost twice as likely to die.
 
jakeblu said:
I'm pleased to report that my local authority collects my rubbish every week, without fail (y)
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...and mine. Local and central government staff are generally far better at their jobs than many keyboard bullies give them credit for.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
...and mine. Local and central government staff are generally far better at their jobs than many keyboard bullies give them credit for.
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I'm giving that a big like, especially as I'm an ex local authority worker :D
 
I despair at the welsh and scots, basically saying we all have to do the same thing! It makes sense to work on a local level, and ease restrictions where its ok to do so - it is what Germany is doing FFS who we all hold up as a country that has done well at this!!!
 
nilagin said:
......Looking at the areas they are involved in, they appear to be adequate candidates for the job.

jakeblu said:
Fiddling the figures is all they're adequate candidates for :D
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Perhaps you are on the right track, Steve.

I hasten to mention that it is all very well judging candidates by their qualifications and experience, but if the results they produce are a cause for concern then that very much warrants an investigation into how the UK has got into the current situation (and how we can improve matters).
 
nilagin said:
Must be why Labour awarded them contracts then
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Proof of fiddling the figures came well after the last Labour Government
 
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woof woof said:
I'm just thinking about what's set me off today :D and it's something that's bothered me for a long time.

I do agree with questioning authority figures, very much so and at every opportunity, it's something I do, but the objections, objectors and opposition have to be held to the same standards and heckling from the back just isn't enough. imo. There needs to be some substance.

It seems to me that the newspapers have been fit for nothing but the toilet and the backside or fish and chips for a long time, if honesty and unbiased reporting is what you want, but I expect more from the mainstream national TV news and topical programs and it seems that far too often these seem to just give a free platform to someone who could have another agenda other than the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. There must be people in these programs somewhere capable of comprehending what's being said and formulating probing questions to test what is being said but like todays ITN news imo far too often someone comes on and makes a statement which goes completely unchallenged. That has to be questionable practice, especially on a platform so important and visible as the national news.
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The BBC is different but ITN, CH4 and SKY news can do what they want, they live and die by their ratings.
In a market rapidly moving to more diverse online content, they are having to guild the lilly with salacious headers and narrative to try and stay relevant, couple that with a political agenda and that's where we're at, nothing but garbage.
For British politics you ought to watch the shockingly different SKY news Australia for some perspective...:)
 
sphexx said:
But you were casting doubt on the “sources” ... :(.

”We are not the only country ... “, so that’s OK then?
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Ah twisting my words.
Of course it doesn't make it "OK" but the media are once again being selective in their reporting, making it out to be a soley NHS issue, when other countries have had the same problems.

But then headlines like "Britain among several countries to return PPE" isn't as attention grabbing is it ?

As for casting doubt on the sources, yes that's true. If the source is reliable then name it, if you can't name it, then it's worthless, to me at least.
 
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Peter10d said:
Coronavirus: Black people four times more likely to die with COVID-19 than white people - ONS http://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...more-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-ons-11984448

I have seen this discussion on the media on several occasions and I am surprised nobody has mentioned vitamin D could be a contributing factor. A Dr John Campbell who is on YouTube on a daily basis states that the darker your skin is, then you absorb less vitamin D. He states that vitamin D boosts the immune system. I not saying this is the reason as it could be other things like genetics etc but I’m surprised nobody else seems to be talking about it.
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Even though they've tried, its too difficult to make the jump from racist virus to racist government ?
 
jakeblu said:
That might be because many of them have outsourced it to private contractors ;)

I'm pleased to report that my local authority collects my rubbish every week, without fail (y)
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Our refuse collection was outsourced years ago and we have had no problem at all.
Our local council are a shower of white however. Although our flat is private, it is lease hold and the local council is the leaseholder. Our service charge has increased by £25 a month, the council employ a crew of caretakers, to do remedial work like cleaning stairs and lobbies, changing light bulbs, basically all the small communal stuff. All larger jobs are contracted out to other firms. The caretakers haven't been seen since mid march. The lights outside the sheds, the main door in the lobby and on the stairs, all work on a timer. I have no idea who set the timer but some evenings the light doesn't come on, but finally comes on in the early hours, when it isn't needed any longer. Then the following day it can work just fine. It's been like this since February, it's been reported numerous times, but still hasn't been fixed. But they did come around and cut the grass last week, so I suppose that's something.
 
jakeblu said:
Proof of fiddling the figures came well after the last Labour Government
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So in which direction do you figure they will be fiddling figures for contact tracking? What is anyone going to gain from them getting fraudulent data from this? I can't see any benefit for anyone if they come up with false infections or hide infections.
 
nilagin said:
So in which direction do you figure they will be fiddling figures for contact tracking? What is anyone going to gain from them getting fraudulent data from this? I can't see any benefit for anyone if they come up with false infections or hide infections.
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Put simply, if they're paid by results, their past track record indicates they'll cheat.
 
woof woof said:
There's long been a tendency among some in the UK and some other parts of the west who would see themselves as liberal to tend to have a bit of a simmering hatred for the USA. It's tempered if the right person is president but the wrong one is in at the moment so the hatred is hardly hidden and in fact the bias is often there to be seen, IMO.

Hating the USA is all well and good but if there's an argument at the bottom of it (immigration? Illegal wars?) then these USA hating liberal types should at least be consistent and shout just as loudly even when the right one is president. Obama and Clinton spring to mind and the deafening silence from some who shout so loudly now wiggy is president.
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There is an awful lot of foolish USA worship too to counter that — “special relationship” for example.
 
cambsno said:
I despair at the welsh and scots, basically saying we all have to do the same thing! It makes sense to work on a local level, and ease restrictions where its ok to do so - it is what Germany is doing FFS who we all hold up as a country that has done well at this!!!
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I'm not sure what the Welsh are saying but Nicola Sturgeon is absolutely adamant that although it would be better if we could all do the same thing, she will do what is best for Scotland even if that is different to the rest of the UK (assuming her devolved powers allow it).

She gets asked this question at almost every daily briefing, and gives the same answer over and over again. Where do you get the idea that the Scots are saying we all have to do the same thing, it certainly isn't Scottish Government policy.



Or have I misunderstood the point you are making.
 
jakeblu said:
Put simply, if they're paid by results, their past track record indicates they'll cheat.
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Well seeing as they are contacting people who have been exposed, I assume the app will be recording the number of people exposed, so they wouldn't be able to get paid for contacting more people than the number of exposures.
 
myotis said:
I'm not sure what the Welsh are saying but Nicola Sturgeon is absolutely adamant that although it would be better if we could all do the same thing, she will do what is best for Scotland even if that is different to the rest of the UK (assuming her devolved powers allow it).

She gets asked this question at almost every daily briefing, and gives the same answer over and over again. Where do you get the idea that the Scots are saying we all have to do the same thing, it certainly isn't Scottish Government policy.



Or have I misunderstood the point you are making.
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They seemed to be indicating we should all follow the same path. We shouldn’t. Different regions should act accordingly.
 
cambsno said:
They seemed to be indicating we should all follow the same path. We shouldn’t. Different regions should act accordingly.
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That's what I thought you meant, but that isn't what Nicola Sturgeon has been saying, she has consistently agreed with your latter point i.e. different regions or Scotland in her case, must follow what is best for their local situation.

She has said that there are benefits if everyone can do the same thing e.g. less confusion for the public, but not at the expense of doing what is best for Scotland.

She has been so adamant on this point, on so many occasions, I'm still intrigued on what has made you think differently.
 
cambsno said:
They seemed to be indicating we should all follow the same path. We shouldn’t. Different regions should act accordingly.
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How would that work ?
Are you saying that Hampshire should have different rules to Herefordshire ?
It would be total and utter confusion
 
Stansthirdboy said:
How would that work ?
Are you saying that Hampshire should have different rules to Herefordshire ?
It would be total and utter confusion
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Hampshire and Herfordshire apart, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England already have different Regulations and Guidance, which admittedly is different from having different rules within the same country (i.e. different counties in England), but it's not as if we have "all" been following the same rules up to now.

One of the suggestions that has been floated is that people would be restricted to only travelling within the county they live in. Which in itself would bring a whole mess of problems for many people. " But I guess the rules could then be issued on a county by county basis. I don't actually think they have much idea on how we are going to get out of lockdown.

Scotland has a website set up for people to post ideas, and Nicola Sturgeon has asked for anyone with any ideas to share them with the Scottish Government. Not sure whether this is community involvement or desperation :-)
 
myotis said:
Hampshire and Herfordshire apart, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England already have different Regulations and Guidance, which admittedly is different from having different rules within the same country (i.e. different counties in England), but it's not as if we have "all" been following the same rules up to now.

One of the suggestions that has been floated is that people would be restricted to only travelling within the county they live in. Which in itself would bring a whole mess of problems for many people. " But I guess the rules could then be issued on a county by county basis. I don't actually think they have much idea on how we are going to get out of lockdown.

Scotland has a website set up for people to post ideas, and Nicola Sturgeon has asked for anyone with any ideas to share them with the Scottish Government. Not sure whether this is community involvement or desperation :)
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(My bold) Nightmare. Wetherby is in West Yorkshire* but I think every (maybe nearly every) road out crosses North Yorkshire.

*Leeds claims it is in Leeds but every “Welcome to Leeds” sign they have erected as you approach Wetherby has been defaced :) so I’m not so sure :).
 
cambsno said:
Anyone else noticed that the people at the briefings are not showing the long unruly hair nor the diy look the rest of us have? In this together?
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I haven’t studied them like you, but I did wonder when BBC did that piece on “underground” hairdressers the other day :).
 
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