The virus. PPE. Part 1

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ancient_mariner said:
Perhaps they don't trust their government, and expect tracking information will be used for malign purposes, rather than just keeping tabs on those who've had contact with infected individuals?
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What malign purposes? Please do tell as I can't think of one.

At this time do people truly believe that the government hasn't got better things to do than keep track of them. What are they doing that could be of interest to... who? MI5? Special Branch? The MIB? Really?

I know this is how some people think but I do wish someone could put a reasoned argument forward for being paranoid over this and do tell what they're doing that Big Brother would show an interest in as at the moment I think worries like this are firmly in foil hat paranoid fantasy land. Maybe people have more to fear from Amazon and Google than the UK govt at this point in time.

I just don't buy the evil govt idea. Granted I don't buy into conspiracy theories but I do think this one is waaaay out there especially when these paranoid delusions are set against the chance of limiting the spreading a potentially dangerous virus that's killed tens of thousands in the UK alone.
 
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jakeblu said:
OH dear that just about says it all.

YouTube is a cesspit of misinformation, likely worse than any other social media platform, and to be brutally honest if you believe the garbage that is put out there then its no wonder you're so woefully misinformed. If they were subject to the same broadcasting rules and regulations as the BBC then most of their content would disappear overnight.
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You will be telling me next that those videos I see on the internet wasnt really a woman whose washing machine had broken down, and could not afford to pay the engineer!!!
 
Gremlin said:
How is this supposed to work when many people don't have smartphones and those that do won't have either bluetooth or wifi turned on all the time, I for one rarely do unless I need it
Many have pay as you go sims which charge for everything, mainly because they can't afford contract phones and
only use them if needed, they won't appreciate their monthly payment being eaten away by a govt app
So you could be stood next to someone who is a carrier and it won't register on the system
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Many people do have compatible smartphones, I'd guess even most.

I'm sure people like me with an ancient phone carried but rarely turned on are in a tiny minority and as such I'd be extremely careful and probably wouldn't ease my own lockdown.
 
So much has been said of our NHS but it has generally coped well - but Japan has only had 15k confirmed cases and just 500 deaths but according to BBC hospitals are pushed to the limit! Surprising seeing as their system seems at first glance to be of a decent standard.
 
woof woof said:
Many people do have compatible smartphones, I'd guess even most.

I'm sure people like me with an ancient phone carried but rarely turned on are in a tiny minority and as such I'd be extremely careful and probably wouldn't ease my own lockdown.
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And if you think about it the younger (sub 50 or 60) group are pretty likely to have a smartphone, with older people less likely to, who would probably be more likely to need to continue some form of isolation.
 
Retune said:
I think I should make a Youtube video about the mysterious phenomenon of people with strangely familiar opinions who join specialised discussion sites, make a few token on-topic posts, then jump straight to the political threads.
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Yes, that is a valid observation. I tend to view the phenomenon from the angle that some people only have political viewpoints on any matter and set out to find opportunities to become involved in threads in order to expound their own political perspective.
The pitfall there is that discussions quickly degenerate into political view A is right and political view B is wrong, or vice versa and never the twain shall meet.
 
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woof woof said:
What malign purposes? Please do tell as I can't think of one.

At this time do people truly believe that the government hasn't got better things to do than keep track of them. What are they doing that could be of interest to... who? MI5? Special Branch? The MIB? Really?

I know this is how some people think but I do wish someone could put a reasoned argument forward for being paranoid over this and do tell what they're doing that Big Brother would show an interest in as at the moment I think worries like this are firmly in foil hat paranoid fantasy land. Maybe people have more to fear from Amazon and Google than the UK govt at this point in time.

I just don't buy the evil govt idea. Granted I don't buy into conspiracy theories but I do think this one is waaaay out there especially when these paranoid delusions are set against the chance of limiting the spreading a potentially dangerous virus that's killed tens of thousands in the UK alone.
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Its all about the New World Order Alan, you need to get with the program :)
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
One of the advantages of being an agnostic with atheist leanings is that I lean towards the non-existence of an afterlife. Imagine the horror of discovering you were stuck with the lunatics of this world for eternity...:runaway:
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I'm hoping that in the afterlife the seriously deluded and terminally idiotic will be in for some revealing life reviews and some expert long time therapy from the best of the best.

If I thought this is all there is my last thought will probably be that the cockroaches have a better chance, they're probably more intelligent than the ranting wailing paranoid social media masses.
 
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jakeblu said:
Its all about the New World Order Alan, you need to get with the program :)
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Even the shape shifting reptilians have better things to do these days.

I do wish those against tracking apps could put forward a well thought out and reasonable real world case against them rather than the vague fear that they're interesting enough for Big Brother to give a toss about them and their lives at this precise moment.

I'm waiting...
 
cambsno said:
And if you think about it the younger (sub 50 or 60) group are pretty likely to have a smartphone, with older people less likely to, who would probably be more likely to need to continue some form of isolation.
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The app would still gather useful info and people like me, that's people who may be at risk who have a functioning brain rather than one addled by paranoid delusions, will behave responsibly and either self isolate or use social distancing when having to go out.
 
Yeah, I don't get it either, I mean I know Google is tracking me but they do actually have business motive to do so........so what ?
I can turn it off anytime I want but I like what they give me in recompense.
I will like what a covid app gives me as recompense, like.....advanced warning of possible death, I'll just have to make sure I turn it off during the times that I'm burgling Barclays or murdering the neighbours.
 
Retune said:
I think I should make a Youtube video about the mysterious phenomenon of people with strangely familiar opinions who join specialised discussion sites, make a few token on-topic posts, then jump straight to the political threads.
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Marc said:
Indeed, there appears to be a glut of it lately.
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I suspect a lot them have arrived from AV Forums and are looking for new pastures to despoil.
 
Uncle Fester said:
I suspect a lot them have arrived from AV Forums and are looking for new pastures to despoil.
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Possibly but I suspect that for at least one, this particular pasture might not be as new as they want us to believe. ;)
 
Retune said:
I think I should make a Youtube video about the mysterious phenomenon of people with strangely familiar opinions who join specialised discussion sites, make a few token on-topic posts, then jump straight to the political threads.
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As you have only been a member for 3 years, you are in danger of falling into that category. ;)
 
joxby said:
Yeah, I don't get it either, I mean I know Google is tracking me but they do actually have business motive to do so........so what ?
I can turn it off anytime I want but I like what they give me in recompense.
I will like what a covid app gives me as recompense, like.....advanced warning of possible death, I'll just have to make sure I turn it off during the times that I'm burgling Barclays or murdering the neighbours.
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I don't mind if the shape shifting reptilians are designing the app and doing the contact tracing. I mean, better them than who's doing it at the moment, Donald Trump, right?
 
MatBin said:
Interesting that the bus load of people were being infected 20ft away, our office is being reconfigured so we are 6m away from each other. Perhaps 2m is only outside?
As for the tracing app, I too have misgivings about it, all well and good to use it now for this particular reason, but can we trust it will be totally removed subsequently?
As it happens I probably have no reason to care one way or the other but I have an uneasy feeling about being traced for no reason other than "because we/they can".
I am fully aware of many other reasons why it might be of great use, for say tracking criminals, terrorists etc and not being a liberal do-gooder I see benefits in it's application but I still have an uneasy feeling about widespread tracking.
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It's not that it's not infectious at 2m, it's just the likelihood that you are infected goes down the further you are away. But if someone coughs in your direction it could carry further, so being further away doesn't necessarily make the risk of infection zero.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
It's not that it's not infectious at 2m, it's just the likelihood that you are infected goes down the further you are away. But if someone coughs in your direction it could carry further, so being further away doesn't necessarily make the risk of infection zero.
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So why 2m outside and 6m inside? One of these distances would seem to be 'wrong'.
 
People who are worried about tracking apps need to ask themselves (a) why they have a problem now, when they have voluntarily paid for a device that casually sends vast quantities of data about their personal lives, including their locations, communciations and browsing habits, to extremely rich and powerful megacorporations to use as they see fit with absolutely no democractic accountability, and (b) why they imagine that state agencies like GCHQ and the NSA cannot already tap into all this if they feel so inclined.
 
With regards to the app. What is stopping person a from contacting person b via the app telling them they have symptoms just because they fancy a fortnight off work?
 
arclight said:
And the WHO say 1 metre .............. "Maintain at least 1 metre (3 feet) distance between yourself and others."
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Micro object travel in air is ever so complicated (I got involved years ago as part of a programming job). Chaos theory comes into it because tiny changes can make big differences to the outcomes. I'd be surprised if there were not different advice from different quarters
 
MatBin said:
So why 2m outside and 6m inside? One of these distances would seem to be 'wrong'.
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I suppose the rational is that outside you are more likely to be moving and thus leaving the corridor of risk quickly, course that's not always the case but it is a mitigation of sorts.
Inside, well you're enclosed and the dissipation of air is much slower.
Still, I don't think 6m is worth a fart, I'd be more interested in the character of my work colleagues than where they sit, 6m in a building full of d1ckheads all day is no mitigation at all.
 
Retune said:
I think I should make a Youtube video about the mysterious phenomenon of people with strangely familiar opinions who join specialised discussion sites, make a few token on-topic posts, then jump straight to the political threads.
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Ah is this the "I've got more posts than you clause, so my opinion is more valid" that I didn't read in the T's and C's when I registered ?
 
jakeblu said:
Interesting study by the Japanese of how long droplets can stay in the locale. If what they claim is verified then it seems that social distancing is only going to be of minor help in stopping the spread of Covid-19

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/coronavirus-microdroplets-talking-breathing-spread-covid-19/
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:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

What a troll you are.

I posted the exact same thing yesterday, taken from a report on Youtube in November, that YOU rubbished !

"I also saw a report on Youtube that one case of infection was traced to a bus full of people, one man on the bus infected people up to 20ft away, which blows the 2mtr rule out of the water. "

Now you post that, absolutely classic !!

This truly is a case of opinions don't count unless you have been a member for X years, or have xxxxx number of posts
 
Stansthirdboy said:
Ah is this the "I've got more posts than you clause, so my opinion is more valid" that I didn't read in the T's and C's when I registered ?
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Stansthirdboy said:
This truly is a case of opinions don't count unless you have been a member for X years, or have xxxxx number of posts
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Of course everyone's post is as valid as the next persons.
But you are't exactly winning friends and influencing people with these type of comments.
Although things do get pretty heated from time to time we are a friendly bunch ( mostly) (y)
 
Cobra said:
Of course everyone's post is as valid as the next persons.
But you are't exactly winning friends and influencing people with these type of comments.
Although things do get pretty heated from time to time we are a friendly bunch ( mostly) (y)
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Friendship isn't exactly being encourged when posters make fun of where valid information is obtained, then post exactly the saem information from what they consider a valid source.
 
Stansthirdboy said:
Friendship isn't exactly being encourged when posters make fun of where valid information is obtained, then post exactly the saem information from what they consider a valid source.
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I'm just asking you to calm it a little and think before you post Thanks :)
 
Cobra said:
But you are't exactly winning friends and influencing people with these type of comments.
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Not entirely accurate
He won't be joining the echo chamber anytime soon that's for certain.

good call
 
MatBin said:
So why 2m outside and 6m inside? One of these distances would seem to be 'wrong'.
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I suppose the logic is that in the street you'll usually only be in transient contact with people. In the office, you may be stuck with them for 8 hours, in a smaller air space. But the virus doesn't have a ruler, and all this is about reducing the risk to some 'acceptable' value rather than eliminating it. And of course you'll also be at risk of workplace infection from touching shared surfaces like door handles.
 
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Stansthirdboy said:
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

What a troll you are,
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Thats a first for me, thanks. I've been called lots of things but never a troll.If its all the same to you, I'll take that under advisement :D
Stansthirdboy said:
I posted the exact same thing yesterday, taken from a report on Youtube in November, that YOU rubbished !

"I also saw a report on Youtube that one case of infection was traced to a bus full of people, one man on the bus infected people up to 20ft away, which blows the 2mtr rule out of the water. "

Now you post that, absolutely classic !!

This truly is a case of opinions don't count unless you have been a member for X years, or have xxxxx number of posts
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Nowhere in your post did you mention the Japanese study, in fact all you said is something vague without citing any source, other than a video on YouTube!
 
Stansthirdboy said:
Friendship isn't exactly being encourged when posters make fun of where valid information is obtained, then post exactly the saem information from what they consider a valid source.
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My source is a valid source, yours is some video on YouTube which as far as I can tell isn't even related to my post.
 
Stansthirdboy said:
In your opinion
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OK lets start again.

I review videos from YouTube, as well as other sources, for a living, and I tend to see the worst of them, so it probably makes me a little skeptical when someone uses YouTube as a source when trying to make a point. There are obviously some reliable sources on YouTube but you do have to be very circumspect when viewing to be able to filter out the chaff from the wheat.

My original post was mostly meant as tongue in cheek, but I do realise looking back at it it could be interpreted differently, and for that I apologise.
 
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jakeblu said:
OK lets start again.

I review videos from YouTube, as well as other sources, for a living, and I tend to see the worst of them, so it probably makes me a little skeptical when someone uses YouTube as a source when trying to make a point. There are obviously some reliable sources on YouTube but you do have to be very circumspect when viewing to be able to filter out the chaff from the wheat.

My original post was mostly meant as tongue in cheek, but I do realise looking back at it it could be interpreted differently, and for that I apologise.
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Like that video of the "Doctor" in the states, saying it wasn't that deadly.

Who turned out had: Taken the % of people who'd been tested and were positive, and applied it to the whole population of California. Then compared it to the number of deaths, assuming his calculation was correct to show a minuscule death rate.

And was an Osteopath who owned an emergency care clinic and was losing money because people weren't going to it.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Like that video of the "Doctor" in the states, saying it wasn't that deadly.

Who turned out had: Taken the % of people who'd been tested and were positive, and applied it to the whole population of California. Then compared it to the number of deaths, assuming his calculation was correct to show a minuscule death rate.

And was an Osteopath who owned an emergency care clinic and was losing money because people weren't going to it.
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I’ve seen that video, it wasn’t made for YouTube but it ended up there courtesy of the conspiracy theorists. Their problem wasn’t extrapolating results across the whole of California, it's a common practice with statistical analysis, but to do that you need to ensure that your sample is random and representative, theirs clearly wasn’t. Any first year statistician could have told them that and really they should have known, so it begs the question why they held that press conference, other than to promote their own interests?
 
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woof woof said:
What malign purposes? Please do tell as I can't think of one.

At this time do people truly believe that the government hasn't got better things to do than keep track of them. What are they doing that could be of interest to... who? MI5? Special Branch? The MIB? Really?

I know this is how some people think but I do wish someone could put a reasoned argument forward for being paranoid over this and do tell what they're doing that Big Brother would show an interest in as at the moment I think worries like this are firmly in foil hat paranoid fantasy land. Maybe people have more to fear from Amazon and Google than the UK govt at this point in time.

I just don't buy the evil govt idea. Granted I don't buy into conspiracy theories but I do think this one is waaaay out there especially when these paranoid delusions are set against the chance of limiting the spreading a potentially dangerous virus that's killed tens of thousands in the UK alone.
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There may be some good reasons not to trust the government, in the wider sense, with your personal location at all times. We've had an MP resign today for using his position to threaten others (and being found out). The police are not above doing similar things, potentially using location detail to 'encourage' someone to cooperate or possibly prosecute them for speeding. And computer systems are far from secure - such a location system would give bruglars an open invitation to visit homes, knowing the owners were all out with the possibility of being warned when they were about to return. I thought you'd once worked in IT, so you should have enough imagination to see why this might not be a good idea without mentioning conspiracy theories.

There was a system offered by appale and google that anaonymised user data, but as I understand it the government wanted to identify individuals in their syste,.

We don't need to worry too much when government works well, but if not everyone is honest.
 
Looking at the brief overview of the NHS virus tracking app, they claim to not collect & hold any personal information, however what bothers me is the possibility that some social misfits might find it amusing to download the app & they falsely report they are suffering virus infection symptoms & then circulate amongst the general public to maliciously spread app alerts telling people they need to isolate?
Description of app here https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/information/nhs-covid-19-app-explainer
 
Interesting blog here about the thinking behind the app, how it deals with privacy, and how their design might mitigate attempts to play silly buggers with the system by generating false alerts:

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/security-behind-nhs-contact-tracing-app

They aren't tracking your location - only anonymous, encrypted proximity contacts with other devices running the app are recorded locally, which aren't uploaded to the NHS server until you become ill, and then only with your consent.

I distrust this government more than most, but I'll be installing the app. We need widespread contact tracing and community testing to dig ourselves out of this hole and protect each other until the day we have a vaccine.
 
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