The virus. PPE. Part 1

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Normally I walk between 10 and 20 miles a day every weekend. Since the lock-down I have not been anywhere for a walk, other than to the shop. Instead I've exercised within the home and relatively small garden.
Arrr..... a garden I hear you say...so why is it friends that live in London flats are doing the same and exercising indoors.
Maybe because they have the discipline to try and follow the clear message below.

stay at home.jpg
 
Tringa said:
Some time ago Downing Street told us that the UK had not taken up the EU plan to bulk buy medical equipment because officials had not seen the emails.

Then it emerged that UK officials were present at meetings where this plan was discussed.

And now we have this -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52377087


Are we to believe

(a) UK officials attended meetings where the plan was discussed but did not brief ministers on their return. While officials go to many meetings and then take forward what happens without ministerial involvement, at some time and especially as the particular plan would have a high cost and as it was about the most high profile issue we have at present it is beyond belief that minsters would not be briefed, and

(b) the most senior civil servant in the Foreign Office who now says

"Due to a misunderstanding, I inadvertently and wrongly told the committee that ministers were briefed on the joint EU procurement scheme and took a political decision not to take part in it,"
"That is incorrect. Ministers were not briefed by our mission in Brussels about the scheme and a political decision was not taken on whether or not to participate."
He added that "the facts of the situation are as previously set out" and the UK missed the opportunity to take part "owing to an initial communication problem".

Has Sir Simon McDonald (Foreign Office, Perm Sec) now been told to 'take one for the team' to save political embarrassment?

Dave
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Didn't the Health Secretary say last night, that there was a mis-communication but the UK was part the procurement but nothing had materialised from it?
 
sphexx said:
Possibly proving correct the retire public health guy (cant remember his name) who said it was a mistake to nominate the Nightingales for CV, that existing hospitals should have been turned over to CV and the Nightingale’s treat less seriously ill.
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That doesn't change the availability of nursing staff.
 
dcash29 said:
Didn't the Health Secretary say last night, that there was a mis-communication but the UK was part the procurement but nothing had materialised from it?
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The only certainly true part in all this is that “nothing had materialised from it“ because none of the stuff being organised by the EU scheme has yet been delivered, according to the Press. The rest is all contradictions, lies and obfuscations.
 
cambsno said:
I think the point he is trying to make is that you may be more likely to need hospital treatment if you go out for longer than an hour as you may trip or fall. Not sure he has evidence to back this up.
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Not direct evidence, but consider car insurance. Has it occurred to you why they ask how many miles you do a year and why the premium varies on that mileage? Simple answer is, the more miles you do, the higher risk you pose of being in an accident. It isn't a guarantee, but it is still an increased risk.
And as already posted if more and more people go out for 3 or 4 hrs walks runs or bike rides, there is more chance of peoples exercise times overlapping with others and suddenly you are finding you aren't the only ones.
It will be no different to the people who figure, let's go for a walk down the sea front, no one else will be there, you get there and find thousands of others have had the same idea.
 
Tringa said:
Some time ago Downing Street told us that the UK had not taken up the EU plan to bulk buy medical equipment because officials had not seen the emails.

Then it emerged that UK officials were present at meetings where this plan was discussed.

And now we have this -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52377087


Are we to believe

(a) UK officials attended meetings where the plan was discussed but did not brief ministers on their return. While officials go to many meetings and then take forward what happens without ministerial involvement, at some time and especially as the particular plan would have a high cost and as it was about the most high profile issue we have at present it is beyond belief that minsters would not be briefed, and

(b) the most senior civil servant in the Foreign Office who now says

"Due to a misunderstanding, I inadvertently and wrongly told the committee that ministers were briefed on the joint EU procurement scheme and took a political decision not to take part in it,"
"That is incorrect. Ministers were not briefed by our mission in Brussels about the scheme and a political decision was not taken on whether or not to participate."
He added that "the facts of the situation are as previously set out" and the UK missed the opportunity to take part "owing to an initial communication problem".

Has Sir Simon McDonald (Foreign Office, Perm Sec) now been told to 'take one for the team' to save political embarrassment?

Dave
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Saying “inadvertently and wrongly” doesn’t sound like any Civil Servant’s writing; “wrongly” is either redundant (because in the next para he amplifies “inadvertently“ by saying it was “incorrect”) or it means something else.
If “wrongly” means anything it would imply it was deliberate or culpable.

The original excuse that “we have left the EU” sounds the most likely to be the true reason for Govt inaction.
 
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"More or Less" the BBC R4 programme of statistics had an interesting discussion of the infection "peak". An interviewee suggested that Britain passed through the maximum infection on 8th April and is now sliding slowly downwards. All sorts of caveats of course.

Still: a little light at the end of the tunnel, which might not be the headlamp of an express train.
 
sphexx said:
The only certainly true part in all this is that “nothing had materialised from it“ because none of the stuff being organised by the EU scheme has yet been delivered, according to the Press. The rest is all contradictions, lies and obfuscations.
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So if none of the EU scheme has been delivered and we have been getting deliveries from Turkey, surely we have been in a better position than if we were still waiting for a delivery from an EU scheme.
 
sphexx said:
The only certainly true part in all this is that “nothing had materialised from it“ because none of the stuff being organised by the EU scheme has yet been delivered, according to the Press. The rest is all contradictions, lies and obfuscations.
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Sounds a little similar to when Germany was asked for PPE before the lock down and they kept it for themselves
 
dcash29 said:
Sounds a little similar to when Germany was asked for PPE before the lock down and they kept it for themselves
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I seem to remember Italy crying out for PPE and help from the EU and getting very little response at the time.
 
nilagin said:
Not direct evidence, but consider car insurance. Has it occurred to you why they ask how many miles you do a year and why the premium varies on that mileage? Simple answer is, the more miles you do, the higher risk you pose of being in an accident. It isn't a guarantee, but it is still an increased risk.
And as already posted if more and more people go out for 3 or 4 hrs walks runs or bike rides, there is more chance of peoples exercise times overlapping with others and suddenly you are finding you aren't the only ones.
It will be no different to the people who figure, let's go for a walk down the sea front, no one else will be there, you get there and find thousands of others have had the same idea.
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Screenshot 2020-04-22 at 13.44.22.png

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52367030
 
jakeblu said:
View attachment 276110

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52367030
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Insurers in America started doing this last month. They are refunding a percentage though which is a much fairer system. Having said that, on the American percentage system, I would have only got about £10 refund. But as I am not in America, nor with this UK insurer, I currently stand to get nothing, unless my insurer follows suit.
I won't be holding my breath though.
If I do get something, I'll make another donation to Captain Tom.
 
nilagin said:
Insurers in America started doing this last month. They are refunding a percentage though which is a much fairer system. Having said that, on the American percentage system, I would have only got about £10 refund. But as I am not in America, nor with this UK insurer, I currently stand to get nothing, unless my insurer follows suit.
I won't be holding my breath though.
If I do get something, I'll make another donation to Captain Tom.
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I'm not with admiral either and wondering if others will follow their lead.
 
arclight said:
That Guardian article is, in itself, a tangled web of a story. The entire sorry mess is like a three dimensional maze.
Somewhere, a basic principle has been forgotten "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" ............. Leonardo da Vinci.
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True, I struggled through it :( , hence I didn’t make any specific statements about it when I posted.
 
I've just looked at the tv listings for this evening and at 9.00pm on Ch4 there's a programme about COVID-19 . "Can science beat the virus" No politicians so no political spin,just scientists. A virologist and epidemiologist and others. It's described as a straight-talking, fact-based discussion. It covers the search for a vaccine and why it takes so long to create one. The epidemiologist will answer questions about the inconsistencies surrounding the data. Is the death rate worse than seasonal 'flu ? It also covers the psychology of isolation .

Sounds like an interesting hour.
 
Trump has removed this senior government doctor from his position because he criticised Trump for pushing chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine. I saw clips of Trump telling the nation to "take it, what have you got to lose" Some States are carrying out a limited opening up when scientists are telling them not to. Gov Cuomo of NY has called the moves stupid. He's directly clashing with Trump on an almost daily basis.

Timed at 2232 this evening: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/22/rick-bright-trump-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus

https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...-from-federal-post-after-opposing-funding-for
 
Rapscallion said:
More analysis of the McDonald letter here:
https://davidallengreen.com/2020/04...r-simon-mcdonald-clarification-a-guided-tour/

I have learned that "due to" is a phrase i have often misused!
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Whoever wrote that analysis, needs to go back to school and do their English Comprehension again if they can't understand that letter.
The only mistake in the letter is using inadvertently and wrongly as they both mean the same thing. But he wouldn't be the first person to use two word meaning the same thing when they should only have used one of them.
 
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Rapscallion said:
More analysis of the McDonald letter here:
https://davidallengreen.com/2020/04...r-simon-mcdonald-clarification-a-guided-tour/

I have learned that "due to" is a phrase i have often misused!
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That is a very good read. Looks like 2 or more of our useless cabinet ministers were in involved. We know that are at odds with each other too as Hancock warned them not to forecast the RAF bringing Turkish PPE on Sunday but they went ahead and did it — and looked stupid when it didn’t turn up.
 
sphexx said:
That is a very good read. Looks like 2 or more of our useless cabinet ministers were in involved. We know that are at odds with each other too as Hancock warned them not to forecast the RAF bringing Turkish PPE on Sunday but they went ahead and did it — and looked stupid when it didn’t turn up.
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It would have turned up late anyway as Turkey had a logistics problem.
 
If anyone is interested in Scotlands framework for deciding on the strategy to get out of lockdown its here:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making/

I haven't read it yet, but in spite of what is being reported, Nicola Sturgeon made it obvious that this is not a strategy for exiting lockdown, its a framework for working out a strategy for exiting lockdown.

I felt it was interesting that during her presentation she was encouraging people who maybe don't normally read Government documents to read this one and pass on their ideas and thoughts to the Scottish Government.
 
myotis said:
If anyone is interested in Scotlands framework for deciding on the strategy to get out of lockdown its here:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-framework-decision-making/

I haven't read it yet, but in spite of what is being reported, Nicola Sturgeon made it obvious that this is not a strategy for exiting lockdown, its a framework for working out a strategy for exiting lockdown.

I felt it was interesting that during her presentation she was encouraging people who maybe don't normally read Government documents to read this one and pass on their ideas and thoughts to the Scottish Government.
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Yes, what the U.K. govt should be doing, but I’m not holding my breath :(.
 
jakeblu said:
You do understand they're only reporting the news and not making it?
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But you think they would check the facts before printing.
Like this story,
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/nurse-shortage-causes-nightingale-hospital-to-turn-away-patients&ved=2ahUKEwixjbvH3_7oAhVKTxUIHWr1BewQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0anHdoLA0szdgdrVH5a4uu&ampcf=1
The NHS have stated there is no need to transfer patients to the Nightingale from other London Hospitals yet as existing London Hospitals are currently below capacity.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/22/nhs-denies-empty-nightingale-hospital-turned-away-30-patients-lack-nurses-12591302/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjN5a_v4P7oAhVCZMAKHdHCD-oQFjAAegQIAhAC&usg=AOvVaw2J1uRIH0UcZ8gujXg8hab1&ampcf=1
 
nilagin said:
But you think they would check the facts before printing.
Like this story,
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/nurse-shortage-causes-nightingale-hospital-to-turn-away-patients&ved=2ahUKEwixjbvH3_7oAhVKTxUIHWr1BewQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0anHdoLA0szdgdrVH5a4uu&ampcf=1
The NHS have stated there is no need to transfer patients to the Nightingale from other London Hospitals yet as existing London Hospitals are currently below capacity.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/22/nhs-denies-empty-nightingale-hospital-turned-away-30-patients-lack-nurses-12591302/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjN5a_v4P7oAhVCZMAKHdHCD-oQFjAAegQIAhAC&usg=AOvVaw2J1uRIH0UcZ8gujXg8hab1&ampcf=1
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Thats what you get for relying on unnamed sources :) To be fair all the papers had the same story, inc the Telegraph.
 
Looks like due to B&Q etc being allowed to open and also takeaways now trading this seems to have been a message for everyone else to also ignore the stay in advice.
Mega busy here on the roads and also by the looks of news sites today has been the busiest day since the start.
What’s your area like ?.
 
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