The virus. PPE. Part 1

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sphexx said:
Those changes you see are just temporary, once industry etc starts up again the pollution will revert to”normal”. Similar changes were seen after the twin towers bombing when all flights stopped — there was a measured increase in sunlight getting through due to no contrails but it soon went back to “normal” :(.
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Just because they are temporary doesn't mean there will come a point of no return. It highlights the fact that a return is possible.
There is a lot of industry that won't likely return due to bankruptcies. New, cleaner industries will be eventually be able to replace them.
 
sphexx said:
Look, let’s suppose you are right, (almost) everything that we need to do to avert climate change is desirable in itself so then where are your objections?
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I have no objections to anything practical that prevents harm and improves the lives of as many people as possible. I'm all for us building serious flood defences to protect vulnerable areas. I'm in favour of Britain joining in schemes to move populations to better locations where their land cannot be defended. In fact: I'm up for any project that will help deal with the changes.
 
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nilagin said:
Just because they are temporary doesn't mean there will come a point of no return. It highlights the fact that a return is possible.
There is a lot of industry that won't likely return due to bankruptcies. New, cleaner industries will be eventually be able to replace them.
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The “point of no return” is a common phenomenon in all sorts of systems and eventually is a rather long time :(. However I hope you are right that the bankruptcies etc will quickly lead to cleaner alternatives.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
The theory that humans can do anything to make a substantial alteration to the current trajectory is probably wrong.
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Citation needed.

Publications in peer-reviewed journals with respectable impact facts are acceptable.

Blog postings, Youtube videos, interviews with superannuated maverick scientists with no expertise in this area, presentations by energy industry shills, surveys conducted by astroturf campaigns, and politically motivated articles by non-specialists are not.
 
simon ess said:
Well, uh, yeah. I think that's kind of the point.

Reduce polluting human behaviour to save the planet is the argument being made.
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Her argument was that by 2025 ( I believe it was) that we would be past the point of no return and we would all become extinct. Just 5yrs from the point of no return is pretty darned close. That is 5yrs where we are already taking steps to reduce the damage we are doing, yet she was adamant it isn't enough we need to do more. Yet in just a month to two months of lockdown around the world there is a marked improvement. Which would mean it isn't as bad as she was making out.
 
nilagin said:
Her argument was that by 2025 ( I believe it was) that we would be past the point of no return and we would all become extinct. Just 5yrs from the point of no return is pretty darned close. That is 5yrs where we are already taking steps to reduce the damage we are doing, yet she was adamant it isn't enough we need to do more. Yet in just a month to two months of lockdown around the world there is a marked improvement. Which would mean it isn't as bad as she was making out.
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Making a dramatic change to our output has had a positive impact on air pollution.

But we're not going to keep this dramatic change up, and this reduction in output isn't what we're doing to "take steps to reduce the damage we are doing".

It doesn't mean it's not as bad as she was making out. It highlights the level of change that might be necessary.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Making a dramatic change to our output has had a positive impact on air pollution.

But we're not going to keep this dramatic change up, and this reduction in output isn't what we're doing to "take steps to reduce the damage we are doing".

It doesn't mean it's not as bad as she was making out. It highlights the level of change that might be necessary.
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If the damage was that bad that we are 5yrs away from the irreversible start of extinction, it would take more than one or two months of a dramatic reduction in pollution for any improvement to be noticed.
What it does prove is the planets resilience and ability is a lot stronger than some would like us to believe.
 
simon ess said:
Do people understand the difference between air quality, weather and climate?

Inferring that improved air quality relates to improved climate suggests not.
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Accumulation in the atmosphere of greenhouse gases, especially those resulting from humans burning fossil fuels, has been found to be the predominant cause of global warming and climate change.

Basically air quality.
 
nilagin said:
Accumulation in the atmosphere of greenhouse gases, especially those resulting from humans burning fossil fuels, has been found to be the predominant cause of global warming and climate change.

Basically air quality.
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You believe that human polluting activity is driving climate change.

Really?
 
Jelster said:
Unfortunately, my sister was one of them....
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Sorry to hear that, sometimes we lose sight of the human tragedies in numbers!
 
nilagin said:
Accumulation in the atmosphere of greenhouse gases, especially those resulting from humans burning fossil fuels, has been found to be the predominant cause of global warming and climate change.
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Glad to hear you believe that.
Basically air quality.
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Not entirely because that's usually referring to how harmful pollutants are to breathe but you could have really unpleasant things to breathe (maybe radioactive stuff) that might have little effect on global warming and CO2 is not harmful to breathe (up to a point), in fact we need it, but contributes to global warming.
 
MatBin said:
Odd then that nobody has complained about the Queen moving out to Windsor where I believe her husband is also, should she not have stayed at Buck Palace and Philip in Norfolk. Prince Charles flew off to Scotland, presumably in the hope of not catching it and I believe by private plane, which wasnt exactly eco friendly. Now, there may have been good reason but it doesn't look like there was.
Anyone who doesn't believe in one rule for the oiks and another for the Toffs is in cloud cuckoo land.
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The Queen and Prince Philip moved to Winsor Castle on the 19th of March and Prince Charles and Camilla moved to Balmoral on the 22nd March before the government lockdown came into place, unlike Carrie who moved out of Downing street after Boris was diagnosed with coronavirus against government guidance (see hear https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-with-possible-coronavirus-covid-19-infection) and then moved again to stay with Boris at Chequers. Now I understand that the Boris Lovers believe any criticism of said deity is treasonous but if you make the rules you should at the very least be seen to be abiding by them.
 
MatBin said:
Downing Street would be classified as an "office" given the number of people visiting daily, it would seem to make sense to remove anyone showing signs of a disease from said office to their home and then make sense in this case to move said person to partners home for security reasons when partner discharged from hospital to their home.
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But they are not staying in 10 Downing street but in the flat at 11.

"Shortly after his announcement, Symonds - who usually lives with the prime minister in the No 11 flat - shared a photograph of herself self-isolating in Camberwell, south London, with the couple’s dog Dilyn."
 
nilagin said:
It was a copy and paste explanation of the impact of pollution on the atmosphere and subsequently, climate change. Not all pollution is man made.
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The biggest change we've seen is in local air quality, because there are far less cars on the road. This will have an impact on climate change, but it's only a short period so the change will be negligible as we'll go back to normal quick enough.

While the two are linked, just creating better air quality in a city, doesn't mean that we're stopping climate change on a global scale. It has other health benefits though.
 
nilagin said:
It was a copy and paste explanation of the impact of pollution on the atmosphere and subsequently, climate change. Not all pollution is man made.
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nilagin said:
especially those resulting from humans burning fossil fuels, has been found to be the predominant cause of global warming and climate change.
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Seriously, stop digging.
 
I've just been next door to leave something on the step for my sister and I couldn't believe the number of people out up and down the road. We're between Redcar and Middlesbrough and Middlesbrough is apparently the worst place in the UK for flouting the "lock down."

I'm tempted to say that I hope the lot of them die, soon... but sadly the ignorant, selfish or just stupid will take innocents with them.

The behaviour of people just beggars belief.
 
woof woof said:
I've just been next door to leave something on the step for my sister and I couldn't believe the number of people out up and down the road. We're between Redcar and Middlesbrough and Middlesbrough is apparently the worst place in the UK for flouting the "lock down."

I'm tempted to say that I hope the lot of them die, soon... but sadly the ignorant, selfish or just stupid will take innocents with them.

The behaviour of people just beggars belief.
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Does Middlebrough have an unusually high crime rate ?
It would be interesting to find out how many infections that town has, but I don't think that data for specific towns is published.
 
arclight said:
Does Middlebrough have an unusually high crime rate ?
It would be interesting to find out how many infections that town has, but I don't think that data for specific towns is published.
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Yes, it has a high crime rate but I don't think the flouting and the crime directly relate.

I'm pretty sure it's been reported on the local news that M'bro has the highest flout rate and also and surprisingly the highest infection rate in the region. Who'd have thunk it?

Idiots isn't strong enough a word. I do know what language I'd like to use.

The only sad bit in all this is that these twits aren't just up for Darwin Awards, they're also endangering people who deserve to live.
 
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