The virus. PPE. Part 1

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Donnie said:
Oh lord no, I'd be more likely to catch something if I used the shower we have access to :-/
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:lol: not!

But somewhere between the above and the showering down we saw of the full coverage suits with self contained BA used in the nerve agent situation we saw in Salisbury (this latter thankfully is not needed ; ) ) there hopefully is something happening to protect all involved working in the frontline NHS?
 
nilagin said:
PPE is provided, but the only part that is enforced is safety shoes. That has only been enforced in the last 6yrs or so because our manager was my manager in the toolroom where safety shoes were necessary due to heavy lumps of metal. Where I work now, there is no danger of anything falling on feet, so it is overkill. We are supposed to wear safety glasses when disconnecting or connecting fuel lines, but I don't, it's easier to just cover the connectors with a bit of paper towel. As for nitrite gloves, I have only started wearing them because of the virus, prior to that I rarely bother, unless messing about with coolant, but that is because it is sticky and hard to get rid of the smell.
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I we cut corners regarding PPE in my work, it would likely lead to dismissal.
It's lazy and stupid not to use it if it's part of your job requirements.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I'm all for flaunting health and safety regulations but I'm definitely against flouting them... :naughty:
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Is that a variant on the "do as I say, not as I do" brigade ;)
 
KitsuneAndy said:
It's anti-incompetence. Can't blame us if it's the Tories making a massive mess out of the situation and ignoring the WHO for months on end.

Also Hancock *not* telling people how it could be done properly, or what PPE he was referring to, is a positive in your book?
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Months on end? The decision to try hard immunity was advised o them and lasted less than two weeks before they imposed a lockdown.
Other countries have struggled too, but all the fault lies at China's door, but you will ignore that as you can't have a whinge about the Tories.
As for the WHO, they were advised by Taiwan in December of the virus, yet in January decided China didn't have a problem.
 
Box Brownie said:
:LOL: not!

But somewhere between the above and the showering down we saw of the full coverage suits with self contained BA used in the nerve agent situation we saw in Salisbury (this latter thankfully is not needed ; ) ) there hopefully is something happening to protect all involved working in the frontline NHS?
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Nope, not that I am aware of generally. Basically we rely on the PPE, thats pretty much it. Higher risk areas like ICUs, cohorted wards used for covid etc will use scrubs more too but that's about it. you come in to work in clean clothes, change to scrubs, use ppe, end of shift scrubs go into linen bag, go home in that mornings clean clothes and when you get home, undress and shower to protect the other members of the household.

What people forget is the state of the nhs infrastructure, some of its quite new, but a lot of it isn't and some of it is older than the nhs itself. Certainly many staff rooms and staff toilet areas are old enough and delapidated that Ive seen better public toilets :-(

But there's certainly no standard showering facilities for staffing, some theatre areas may have one in their changing rooms, maybe some maternity areas and I would hope some of the usual infectious diseases speciality areas but facilities generally? nope.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I'm all for flaunting health and safety regulations but I'm definitely against flouting them... :naughty:
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I remember being called into an MDs office and being asked why someone at a site I hadn't been to for a week wasn't wearing his full ppe kit when the MD visited.

Enforcement is an issue but my counter to that is that this can't be a policing issue. People have to buy into it from the front line and all the way through supervision and management. Socialist and humanitarian though I am I wouldn't put my livelihood in jeopardy by putting up with people who risk life or injury to themselves and risk others who'd have to rescue/retrieve their body if it all goes wrong.

So sorry but not wearing ppe? I'd rip them a new one and everyone up the supervision and management chain too and if they ever even thought of doing it again I'd march them to the door and kick them out. All of them if necessary.

Some of this is more of a back covering and anti litigation thing than true H&S and that's a crying shame but once the risk assessment is done and the rules are written it should be carved in stone and followed religiously.
 
I do wonder what the best thing to do is... reuse ppe or replace it. I suppose these days we should factor in environmental concerns and if that tips the balance one way of another then that makes the decision easier.

Is it best to clean and reuse or will that involve more planet damaging processes and chemicals than ditching the new stuff and making new stuff?

I couldn't begin to even guess so that's another thing for the experts to decide.
 
Box Brownie said:
Is that a variant on the "do as I say, not as I do" brigade ;)
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We in the Philology and Linguistics Organisation fight tirelessly for the freedom of words everywhere. Words of the world: unite! Join the PLO today and defend your inherent right not to be abused!

Brought to you under the auspices of the Campaign for Lightening Our Days. :exit:
 
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Donnie said:
Nope, not that I am aware of generally. Basically we rely on the PPE, thats pretty much it. Higher risk areas like ICUs, cohorted wards used for covid etc will use scrubs more too but that's about it. you come in to work in clean clothes, change to scrubs, use ppe, end of shift scrubs go into linen bag, go home in that mornings clean clothes and when you get home, undress and shower to protect the other members of the household.

What people forget is the state of the nhs infrastructure, some of its quite new, but a lot of it isn't and some of it is older than the nhs itself. Certainly many staff rooms and staff toilet areas are old enough and delapidated that Ive seen better public toilets :-(

But there's certainly no standard showering facilities for staffing, some theatre areas may have one in their changing rooms, maybe some maternity areas and I would hope some of the usual infectious diseases speciality areas but facilities generally? nope.
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Tell me about it! Though my NHS service was not too long (1970 to 80) I worked at a major London teaching hospital that dated back to the days of Jack the Ripper and the facilities were indeed ancient but mostly well looked after................but very limited!

PS on a side note ~ if as path lab staff we had an incident that required A&E help we were not allowed to just go down there. I had a, thankfully mild, anaphylactic reaction and had to wait some for the Path Lab director to arrange for me to be seen. Since that day I have had some specific triggers that I have been able to avoid..............I have never been scratched by a guinea pig since ;)
 
woof woof said:
Re the current supply mess from the simplest of PPE through ventilators and on to entire hospitals.

I think that after this the UK should ensure that as much of this as possible is done in the UK with spare capacity built in. Several new BIG SOTA hospitals should be built and all including existing facilities should be stuffed with every kind of machine, aid and ppe. Production capacity should exist in the UK to supply all our needs and including a ramp up ability in times of national or global emergency as if there's a global event we can't just go out and buy this stuff as every other country will be trying to do exactly the same thing.

Doing all this would be a massive strain on the economy but the voting public don't seem to mind the sky rocketing national debt so so be it. I think this could also be an opportunity to more radically change the way the UK's economy functions.

I can't see this happening, but it's what I'd do :D
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Though maybe we need to look at stuff that can be sterilised and re-used and on ”ramp-up” the US had a quote for a machine that could produce millions (I can’t remember the number) of masks a day in a pandemic but they declined to take it further.
 
nilagin said:
Doesn't stop the anti-Tories, having their little whinge though, does it?
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Neil, you need to accept that you (in the shape of the party you support) are in charge and accept responsibility for your mistakes.
Criticism of the government is not anti-Tory!
 
sphexx said:
Though maybe we need to look at stuff that can be sterilised and re-used and on ”ramp-up” the US had a quote for a machine that could produce millions (I can’t remember the number) of masks a day in a pandemic but they declined to take it further.
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I think everything needs looking at.

You'd think that cleaning and reusing stuff would be best but what's best has to include environmental issues. I'd guess it'll be a complex little question and project for some clever people to tackle.
 
woof woof said:
That may be the first and may also be the last time that's said on this forum.
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Well they could be feisty little beggars...............that section was the job I least liked doing :(
 
sphexx said:
Neil, you need to accept that you (in the shape of the party you support) are in charge and accept responsibility for your mistakes.
Criticism of the government is not anti-Tory!
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Perhaps you ought to go back and count all the whinging that actually mentions the Tories then and take it up with them.
I've never read so much pathetic drivel.
 
sphexx said:
Neil, you need to accept that you (in the shape of the party you support) are in charge and accept responsibility for your mistakes.
Criticism of the government is not anti-Tory!
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It isn't but some stuff we've seen recently in the press is clearly politicos making the most of the situation.

Keir Starmers utterances recently on blockages, mistakes and vaccinations made me think that he was at the very least being opportunistic and perhaps even deserving a pie in the face.

The "Tories" may be making a mess and occasionally looking like idiots at the briefings but for all I/we know they're doing what they say they're doing and following the best advice available. It'd be a brave or incredibly stupid politician who'd do otherwise in this situation which as far as I can see no one anywhere has seriously planned for.

Sadly both brave and incredibly stupid politicians are everywhere.
 
woof woof said:
or incredibly stupid politician
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Going just by the reports over the last few months I have formed the opinion that neither the current government nor the previous government has contained any other sort.
 
woof woof said:
It isn't but some stuff we've seen recently in the press is clearly politicos making the most of the situation.

Keir Starmers utterances recently on blockages, mistakes and vaccinations made me think that he was at the very least being opportunistic and perhaps even deserving a pie in the face.

The "Tories" may be making a mess and occasionally looking like idiots at the briefings but for all I/we know they're doing what they say they're doing and following the best advice available. It'd be a brave or incredibly stupid politician who'd do otherwise in this situation which as far as I can see no one anywhere has seriously planned for.

Sadly both brave and incredibly stupid politicians are everywhere.
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A lot of that may be true, though as I’ve said before, advisers to some extent are constrained by what they think the “advisee” will be willing to accept. Their main fault is 1. Absence of long term planning even though the 2016 exercise showed the NHS was not ready for a pandemic & 2. Not acting early enough on segregating etc incoming potentially infectious people and so on. There’s no excuse for either.
 
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mex said:
Maybe one of the reasons to be realistic with your daily excercise? We saw the rescue helicopter dropping down onto the mountain from the garden and heard the two-tones going up there.

https://www.facebook.com/CBMRT/photos/a.10150433805350543/10163108701925543/?type=3&theater&ifg=1
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Most are saying he was within government guidelines because he went for a short walk from his house.
Unless the only option he had for exercising is that walk, then I'd say any walk that would involve an air ambulance and mountain rescue team, in addition to medics if something goes wrong, is not within guidelines.
 
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Boris sounds remarkably well. No breathlessness, no residual cough ( I still have a lingering cough a month on).

And he never coughed once in the televised pieces he did on the run-up to him being hospitalised either.

Wouldn't surprise me to find out that he never actually had it.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Boris sounds remarkably well. No breathlessness, no residual cough ( I still have a lingering cough a month on).

And he never coughed once in the televised pieces he did on the run-up to him being hospitalised either.

Wouldn't surprise me to find out that he never actually had it.
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Wouldn't surprise me that not everyone suffers the exact same symptoms or for the same amount of time.
After all, we only have your say so, that you actually had it.
;)
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Most are saying he was within government guidelines because he went for a short walk from his house.
Unless the only option he had for exercising is that walk, then I'd say any walk that would involve an air ambulance and mountain rescue team, in addition to medics if something goes wrong, is not within guidelines.
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The area around here offers plenty of low level walks through woodland , along the river or through parklands, there are a few houses along the mountain road, but none as you go up it.
 
mex said:
The area around here offers plenty of low level walks through woodland , along the river or through parklands, there are a few houses along the mountain road, but none as you go up it.
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So he didn't need to go up the hill.....
 
tarric said:
This makes an interesting read.NSFBL;)

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/news...ht-on-coronavirus/ar-BB12wnFp?ocid=spartanntp
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For sure a very interesting and IMO a well balanced summary and appraisal of the timeline and opportunities missed or oddly poor action(s) taken.

As he says at the end of the piece there will be an enquiry (I hope so because we for sure need to understand what could have been done better) but I surmise no heads will roll.............................but sincerely hope that there will be appropriate contingency plans put in place as required to mitigate for any future such infections.

As the human population grows the risk as a decimating pandemic will possibly increase, as afteral we are in effect our own mono-culture and a mono-culture when packed together is prone to "natural selection events" like a pandemic.

When will we as nation and indeed a global 'nation' heed and act on the messages of history :( :banghead: :mad:
 
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nilagin said:
Wouldn't surprise me that not everyone suffers the exact same symptoms or for the same amount of time.
After all, we only have your say so, that you actually had it.
;)
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Indeed you do, because we're not wealthy or important enough to be tested.
 
I'm sure Mr Johnson's illness was perfectly genuine. It isn't easy to fool the highly trained, intelligent medics of a major London teaching hospital. Perhaps that's why so few doctors appear to have voted for his party or his favourite policy?
 
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