The virus. PPE. Part 1

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ancient_mariner said:
The other phrase is 'selection pressure' - only the right wrong mutation will allow the virus to jump species, and all those with the wrong right mutation simply can't make the jump.

*Retune said it so much better than I did*
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FTFY, right or wrong depends on your point of view, from ours my correction is better :).
 
sphexx said:
There’s a drop down — I’ve no idea if the nurses list is correct, I mean it’s not clear (to us!) what they are reporting.
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Only drop downs I can find relate to nurses. Nothing about doctors.

They are reporting nurses pay grades.
 
ancient_mariner said:
It was originally suggested that the virus did NOT spread through aerosols like influenza, but only in droplets (subtle but important difference). Has that thinking been reversed?
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I heard a GP on Talk Radio this afternoon say if an infected person coughed in a room it could be possible for someone to enter that room up to 3 hours later and breathe inparticle(s) .
I hope that is wrong.

Apart from yourself, Toni, and Retune it looks like everyone else on here (my apologies if there are more than two sensible people) basically do not have a clue what we are talking about.

I wish we had a compendium of established Coronavirus / Covid 19 fact that could be consulted. There are differing medical opinions aired on TV and radio.
 
arclight said:
I heard a GP on Talk Radio this afternoon say if an infected person coughed in a room it could be possible for someone to enter that room up to 3 hours later and breathe inparticle(s) .
I hope that is wrong.

Apart from yourself, Toni, and Retune it looks like everyone else on here (my apologies if there are more than two sensible people) basically do not have a clue what we are talking about.

I wish we had a compendium of established Coronavirus / Covid 19 fact that could be consulted. There are differing medical opinions aired on TV and radio.
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You're far too generous - me, I don't know nuffin' really. :asshat:
 
sphexx said:
Its a little known process called evolution by natural selection, John ;).
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Well, Richard.. it was the speed at which it's evolved that struck me. I didn't see it as what you call it.. evolution by natural selection but a rapid adaption to allow it to clamp on to human cells. Something other than evolution but there is only evolution of course. It only appeared last November, if we can believe the Chinese. To most people evolution is not something that occurs so rapidly. I'd have used the term 'mutation' which, of course is..er..evolution. After reading a few articles on it just now the answers is yes, a virus can evolve extremely rapidly.
 
JohnC6 said:
Well, Richard.. it was the speed at which it's evolved that struck me. I didn't see it as what you call it.. evolution by natural selection but a rapid adaption to allow it to clamp on to human cells. Something other than evolution but there is only evolution of course. It only appeared last November, if we can believe the Chinese. To most people evolution is not something that occurs so rapidly. I'd have used the term 'mutation' which, of course is..er..evolution. After reading a few articles on it just now the answers is yes, a virus can evolve extremely rapidly.
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John, I knew that you knew really! Not my field but AFAIK it’s because it’s an RNA virus and they are really bad (or really good, maybe from their viewpoint) at replicating, so mistakes happen frequently, resulting in rapid evolution, for good or ill (from their point of view).
There is no good or bad in evolution it just is — like “market forces” in human affairs :(.
 
Tigger.ufo said:
View attachment 274811
Plus Australia ....
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Assuming thats a joke? Belgium have had approx. 3k deaths compared to the UK on 9k, yet the populations are 12m v 65m, so while we have 3x as many deaths, we have 5.5x the population, so the deaths per head is far more for Belgium. They are 3rd worse (if you ignore Andorra and San Marino on low data basis) in the world!!!
 
I 've been taking an interest in Sweden's response to this crisis which is quite different to most others.
Sweden is sticking with its unusual coronavirus strategy, relying on people to take responsibility and follow guidelines which they seem to be doing instead of implementing lockdown measures like most other countries with outbreaks have done. There's only a handful of restrictions in place, like a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people, while shops, restaurants, bars, and most schools remain open. The government has defended its strategy and says people are following its advice, while statistics have suggested that many people are taking social-distancing steps seriously like avoiding public transport.
So far their infection rates and death rates seem no worse that other European countries.
I realise it's still early in the current crisis and things could go south pretty quickly but it makes for an interesting comparison to what may happen if people take responsibility for their own actions.
 
JohnC6 said:
Well, Richard.. it was the speed at which it's evolved that struck me. I didn't see it as what you call it.. evolution by natural selection but a rapid adaption to allow it to clamp on to human cells. Something other than evolution but there is only evolution of course. It only appeared last November, if we can believe the Chinese. To most people evolution is not something that occurs so rapidly. I'd have used the term 'mutation' which, of course is..er..evolution. After reading a few articles on it just now the answers is yes, a virus can evolve extremely rapidly.
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Indeed they can.

But the evidence suggests this is not the case with COVID-19
 
I don't usually post in this thread, but its title is exactly what my message relates to

My wife's science department has donated all its PPE to Papworth Hospital
They are getting desperately short as are so many others who need and deserve it
I know from my wife that other schools and universities have donated their PPE too.

So if you know of anywhere or anyone that can give vital gear, let them know its wanted and appreciated
 
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LCPete said:
I think the difference is that they don’t have the stupid minority that we have that insist that social distancing doesn’t apply to them
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I think one important difference might be the population density...
  • Sweden: 64 people per square mile.
  • UK: 727 people per square mile.
Of course, these are simple averages and density varies widely in both countries.

On a lighter note: according to some of the Swedish writers of crime fiction Swedes are just as capable of stupidity as anyone else. The 2KKs (Kurt Kvant and Karl Kristiansson) in the Sjöwall and Wahlöö books are examples. :D
 
tarric said:
I 've been taking an interest in Sweden's response to this crisis which is quite different to most others.
Sweden is sticking with its unusual coronavirus strategy, relying on people to take responsibility and follow guidelines which they seem to be doing instead of implementing lockdown measures like most other countries with outbreaks have done. There's only a handful of restrictions in place, like a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people, while shops, restaurants, bars, and most schools remain open. The government has defended its strategy and says people are following its advice, while statistics have suggested that many people are taking social-distancing steps seriously like avoiding public transport.
So far their infection rates and death rates seem no worse that other European countries.
I realise it's still early in the current crisis and things could go south pretty quickly but it makes for an interesting comparison to what may happen if people take responsibility for their own actions.
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It is difficult to make comparisons between the stats for different countries.
E.g. Germany is testing around 400,000 people per week and they picking up infected people who have no symptoms and people with mild symptoms who would not have sought medical help (and who don't die). All that group are part of the statistically infected group and their inclusion causes the ratio of fatalities to infected to be lower.
The UK has not yet carried out large scale public testing and it's record of infected people will not include the infected group who are not at risk of dying.
I expect that the German figures are a truer representation of reality (plus the German health service has massive capacity).

Another factor could be population density : UK is 280 per sq. km with London being 4,500 per sq. km.
: Sweden is 60 per sq. km. with Stockholm being 360 per sq. km.
 
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Post cancelled due to writer error.
 
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jakeblu said:
Interesting to see how the right wing, politicians and media, in the US first started to report Covid-19. Apologies if its been posted already

View: https://youtu.be/NAh4uS4f78o
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The problem is that the attention deficit disorder generation will forget what people were saying weeks ago, and still believe whatever nonsense these morons are spouting now.
 
tarric said:
I 've been taking an interest in Sweden's response to this crisis which is quite different to most others.
Sweden is sticking with its unusual coronavirus strategy, relying on people to take responsibility and follow guidelines which they seem to be doing instead of implementing lockdown measures like most other countries with outbreaks have done. There's only a handful of restrictions in place, like a ban on gatherings of more than 50 people, while shops, restaurants, bars, and most schools remain open. The government has defended its strategy and says people are following its advice, while statistics have suggested that many people are taking social-distancing steps seriously like avoiding public transport.
So far their infection rates and death rates seem no worse that other European countries.
I realise it's still early in the current crisis and things could go south pretty quickly but it makes for an interesting comparison to what may happen if people take responsibility for their own actions.
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Holland is also taking a different approach, apparently wanting herd immunity: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52135814
 
cambsno said:
I thought we had over 8000 icu beds? Hospitals are not saying that they are oversubscribed iirc?
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They are using the number of ICU beds available, but minus the historical average for the number of beds in use. So as we have been clearing ICU beds in preparation for Covid patients, and as their model still assumes we have no ventilators available, their numbers don't seem to mean very much.
 
jakeblu said:
After reading that, I'm struggling to see what they're doing differently to us.
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Only those businesses that require touching, like hairdressers, beauticians and red light brothels, have been forced to cease trading. Bars, restaurants and cannabis cafes are shut, although they seem to be doing a roaring trade in takeaways. Sometimes this lockdown feels invisible. Cities may be quieter, but children still clamber on climbing frames and teenagers cycle side-by-side.

In a televised speech to the nation on 16 March, Mr Rutte (Dutch PM) outlined his approach.

"We can delay the spread of the virus and at the same time build up population immunity in a controlled manner," he said.

It's a different emphasis. No shops are open near me, except supermarkets, no food outlets etc, no children playing together or teenagers out on bikes in a group. They appear to want the population to become gradually infected, rather than stopping infection through isolation until control becomes possible again. They know people will die and accept that's all part of becoming immune as a nation.
 
Uncle Fester said:
The problem is that the attention deficit disorder generation will forget what people were saying weeks ago, and still believe whatever nonsense these morons are spouting now.
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True, but they have been saying all these things on video and I just wonder what the effect would be if the clips are replayed during elections. The democrats don’t seem to have done that so far, maybe keeping their powder dry?
 
I missed the children bit. We have butchers, bakers, greengrocers and hardware stores open in my town, no toy stores though :).

People have been advised to stay at home, but you can go out if you are unable to work from home, or have to grab groceries or fresh air, as long as you maintain 1.5m (5ft) social distance.

It still seems similar to what is happening here, even the herd immunity bit. I recently read an article, about a week ago, that say HM Gov are ultimately looking at herd immunity to bring us through this crisis.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...herd-immunity-community-surveillance-covid-19
 
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I can't believe what I've just watch Mat Hancock say on the news. They are unable to workout if the nineteen medical personnel who have tragically died so far had caught coronavirus in the line of duty, also that there was plenty of PPE if it was used correctly so is he telling us that the medical professional's are unaware of what PPE they require. I'm sorry but the man is not fit for the office he serves.
 
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