The virus. PPE. Part 1

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Mr Badger said:
No, but I'm thinking about buying a box set of the 70s TV series 'Survivors' to get some tips! ;)
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That reminded me of "The Mad Death" which scared the bejeesus out of me as a 13 year old... Not flu but Rabies...
Also, I think there was another show in the noughties called Survivors with Max Beesley (edit: Yep - BBC, 2008)
 
Raymond Lin said:
China's reaction to any negative news is always been

1 - Deny deny deny
2 - Silence any critic and arrest them
3 - Put on a massive show to prove they are right. - They put on a banquet for 100,000 people like a week before they lock the city down…that was a big mistake.
4 - Cover up more
5 - Accept it but will control the PR and limit the real numbers
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That is more or less the model used by all totalitarian regimes and they apply it to everything including relatively minor matters (which makes them look very stupid). Even in the face of undeniable evidence Russia resorts to lying to deny drug cheating in games.

China is a bad place for any disease with a potentially global reach to start. It has many places with high population numbers and densities which is the ideal medium for infectious diseases to spread rapidly from person to person.
Add to that the effect of 1 - Deny deny deny multiplies the extent of problem and the ability to contain it.

The Chinese government will certainly now be worried about the effect on the economy if the country becomes a no go area.
 
View: https://BANNED/Kate_M_Proctor/status/1223194976441585664
 
What beats me is why foreigners are being allowed to escape any quarantine measures that the Chinese might be trying to impose. Surely the reduction in possibility of infection spread is more important than a (relatively) few people?
 
There is an evacuation flight inbound Brize Norton (lunchtime arrival) with 83 Brits and a number of others for onward journey to Spain. Around 150 Brits were expected, but the "story" from China is that they could not find transport to the airport.

BTW, what exactly is self isolation. Literally that could mean no contact with anyone. Not many people are in a position to do that.
 
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arclight said:
There is an evacuation flight inbound Brize Norton (lunchtime arrival) with 83 Brits and a number of others for onward journey to Spain. Around 150 Brits were expected, but the story from China is that they could not find transport to the airport.

B TW, what exactly is self isolation. Literally that could mean no contact with anyone. Not many people are in a position to do that.
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China should NEVER of let anyone out, as they have screwed up again in NOT telling the truth.
 
Dave70D said:
China should NEVER of let anyone out, as they have screwed up again in NOT telling the truth.
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With air travel the world is today, this will be in 95% of the countries earth in 6 months. What is that they say? 6 degrees of separation?
 
it is here
It will spread
It will do its worst
it will burn itself out.
The NHS and other services will have a smaller population to look after for a decade or two.

These situations are always self correcting.

We all die of something.

We will have to deal with the aftermath of Brexit for far longer.
 
Direct quote from the W.H.O.

Conclusions and advice
The Committee welcomed the leadership and political commitment of the very highest levels of Chinese government, their commitment to transparency, and the efforts made to investigate and contain the current outbreak. China quickly identified the virus and shared its sequence, so that other countries could diagnose it quickly and protect themselves, which has resulted in the rapid development of diagnostic tools.
The very strong measures the country has taken include daily contact with WHO and comprehensive multi-sectoral approaches to prevent further spread. It has also taken public health measures in other cities and provinces; is conducting studies on the severity and transmissibility of the virus, and sharing data and biological material. The country has also agreed to work with other countries who need their support. The measures China has taken are good not only for that country but also for the rest of the world.
 
in 1918 Spanish flue killed up to 50 million people and infected a third of the worlds population. (500 million at that time)
That is far more than all those killed in both world wars.

Corona virus has a lot of catching up to do.:grumpy:
 
simon ess said:
Direct quote from the W.H.O.

Conclusions and advice
The Committee welcomed the leadership and political commitment of the very highest levels of Chinese government, their commitment to transparency, and the efforts made to investigate and contain the current outbreak. China quickly identified the virus and shared its sequence, so that other countries could diagnose it quickly and protect themselves, which has resulted in the rapid development of diagnostic tools.
The very strong measures the country has taken include daily contact with WHO and comprehensive multi-sectoral approaches to prevent further spread. It has also taken public health measures in other cities and provinces; is conducting studies on the severity and transmissibility of the virus, and sharing data and biological material. The country has also agreed to work with other countries who need their support. The measures China has taken are good not only for that country but also for the rest of the world.
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I do think China is hiding the actual numbers, but they are not hiding what they are doing in terms of lock down and building new hospital, in fact they seem very proud of it to show how they can flex their muscles.

China will do what they do, they managed to eliminate SARS so this will be the next thing. The rest of the world will do we we do to eradicate it but nothing is 100%. The world managed to get over the Spanish Flu when science was much more primitive, although air travel means the spread of this will be greater, we are also more equated to survive this. This is just temporary, it will blow over eventually.
 
Why has the USA (trump) not banned the import of the Chinese Corona virus?
Or at least put a stringent tariff on it?
After all he has banned Huawei products and grounded all Chinese Drones in the USA.
When it comes to China, His paranoia knows no bounds, and seems to be equally infectious amongst republicans.
I expect him to declare it biological warfare very soon.
 
arclight said:
"but I do know we can't keep expanding our population"

Correct - that is the elephant in the room that is not being addressed. However, it is inescapable that it will need to be addressed before very long.
Global population is far outstripping the ability of the planet to support it. The choice is either to have a managed population or take the consequences which will bring a drop in population (in a most unpleasant way, I suspect).
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This is getting off-topic but to be clear the issue isn't so much the magnitude of the population which is the problem, it's the lifestyle choices in parts of the world (including many people in the UK) which is unsustainable. To change your closing remark slightly: The choice is either to begin living more sustainable lifestyles or take the consequences which will bring a drop in population (in a most unpleasant way,
 
Raymond Lin said:
With air travel the world is today, this will be in 95% of the countries earth in 6 months. What is that they say? 6 degrees of separation?
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I would go further and say that there's a good chance that it already IS in 95+% of the countries on Earth. Possibly not on Antarctica yet. Yet.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Why has the USA (trump) not banned the import of the Chinese Corona virus?
Or at least put a stringent tariff on it?
After all he has banned Huawei products and grounded all Chinese Drones in the USA.
When it comes to China, His paranoia knows no bounds, and seems to be equally infectious amongst republicans.
I expect him to declare it biological warfare very soon.
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Wilbur Ross says Coronavirus could boost US jobs

'US commerce secretary Wilbur Ross has said the deadly coronavirus outbreak in China could be positive for the American economy.

During a TV interview Mr Ross said: "I think it will help to accelerate the return of jobs to North America".

The rapid spread of the disease has raised fears about its impact on the Chinese economy and global growth.

The comments have come under fire from critics of President Trump's administration.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51276323
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
in 1918 Spanish flue killed up to 50 million people ...That is far more than all those killed in both world wars.
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It depends on whose figures you believe. Some claim that WWI cost 40 million lives and WWII cost up to 85 million. Still: 50 million is an awful lot of misery. :(
 
We had our takeaway on thurs . OMG .... and there only gonna quarantine the returnees on the Wirral ,I can see the whole of the Wirral from my front windows ... Shiite .... singing so long it’s been good to know ya ... or gooodbyyeeeeee .. if you want me I’ll be up in the mountains hiding
 
Nod said:
What beats me is why foreigners are being allowed to escape any quarantine measures that the Chinese might be trying to impose. Surely the reduction in possibility of infection spread is more important than a (relatively) few people?
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Yes ................... both of the coronavirus patients in Newcastle are Chinese family members on a visit to the UK. They were staying in a York hotel.
 
kendo1 said:
View attachment 267327
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On a more serious note alcohol would overload your immune system making it harder to fight off the infection. If you feel ill please don't start drinking heavily but seek medical advise as necessary.
Alcohol may be also incompatible (i.e. toxic) when mixed with many drugs including paracetamol.
 
Need to take a lot of paracetamol and shed load of alcohol in one go for it to be Toxic. A flu and cold remedy dose or 2 paracetamol every 4 hours and alcohol isnt going to kill you.
 
LongLensPhotography said:
On a more serious note alcohol would overload your immune system making it harder to fight off the infection. If you feel ill please don't start drinking heavily but seek medical advise as necessary.
Alcohol may be also incompatible (i.e. toxic) when mixed with many drugs including paracetamol.
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Are you a qualified medical professional ? This is not the place to be giving out medical advice.
 
Sod the paracetamol I’m gonna buy a shed load of viagra and go out with a bang or two
 
This thread sounds like a good Friday night in the '80s...

Alcohol, drugs and catching a nasty virus.

Aah, memories.
 
In the '80s, chances were greater that it would be a bacterial infection rather than a nasty virus, although the nasty virus was around.

Memories? (Allegedly...) not if you did enough alcohol and/or drugs!
 
Nod said:
Memories? (Allegedly...) not if you did enough alcohol and/or drugs!
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I was really there in the '60s and remember it quite well. So much for the pronouncements of the counter-culture...

:tumbleweed:
 
Raymond Lin said:
China's reaction to any negative news is always been

1 - Deny deny deny
2 - Silence any critic and arrest them
3 - Put on a massive show to prove they are right. - They put on a banquet for 100,000 people like a week before they lock the city down…that was a big mistake.
4 - Cover up more
5 - Accept it but will control the PR and limit the real numbers

No. 3 was a massive mistake, at this point they already knew of the existence of it, but the state put on this show anyway.

Put it this way, about 2millio people left Wuhan before the lock down to go back to their families for Chinese New Year, even at 1% infection rate, there are 10,000 people out there carrying the virus around China/world.

With 2 weeks incubation period, we are only like a week since the Chinese New Year, I expect a spike in the next 7 days.
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The story’s we are getting from my wife’s family and Chinese social media (before it’s removed)are far different to what the new’s here is still saying.

They are convinced it was the US that started it as they supposedly had a meeting at a chemical/bio weapons facility in Wuhan with the US and Russia days before where they all fell out again.
And as the US wasn’t getting anywhere with the trade war this was a good way to crush china’s economy.
They are saying it’s been strained to only affect Asian people, as even most of those infected outside China were Chinese.(foil hats)

They are also reporting that the death rate is far higher as is the infection rate.

They have been running out of medical supplies and testing kits/ materials so that’s why no. Per day are always going up roughly the same.
There was also things saying that people were dying with the symptoms but if they hadn’t been tested before they died they didn’t count them in the death statistics and just marked it down as something else. This has reportedly been happening a lot too.
 
pmac said:
The story’s we are getting from my wife’s family and Chinese social media (before it’s removed)are far different to what the new’s here is still saying.

They are convinced it was the US that started it as they supposedly had a meeting at a chemical/bio weapons facility in Wuhan with the US and Russia days before where they all fell out again.
And as the US wasn’t getting anywhere with the trade war this was a good way to crush china’s economy.
They are saying it’s been strained to only affect Asian people, as even most of those infected outside China were Chinese.(foil hats)

They are also reporting that the death rate is far higher as is the infection rate.

They have been running out of medical supplies and testing kits/ materials so that’s why no. Per day are always going up roughly the same.
There was also things saying that people were dying with the symptoms but if they hadn’t been tested before they died they didn’t count them in the death statistics and just marked it down as something else. This has reportedly been happening a lot too.
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I heard that theory.

But for a bio weapon, it is a really crap one and one that they have no control over because you can spread it before symptons shows meaning it is stealth for far too long. With today's air travel you can go round the world twice before you even get a headache. It would easily come back and bite you on the ass just as easily.

If they wanted to start something like this, it would be easier to drop something like Ebola in the area with a 90% mortality rate vs the 2% from this. Even if they are underreporting it, let's say it is 10times more potent at 20%. It is still way lower than Ebola.

Plus with Ebola there wouldn't be any "new bio weapon from the enemy" talk theory.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
I heard that theory.

But for a bio weapon, it is a really crap one and one that they have no control over because you can spread it before symptons shows meaning it is stealth for far too long. With today's air travel you can go round the world twice before you even get a headache. It would easily come back and bite you on the ass just as easily.

If they wanted to start something like this, it would be easier to drop something like Ebola in the area with a 90% mortality rate vs the 2% from this. Even if they are underreporting it, let's say it is 10times more potent at 20%. It is still way lower than Ebola.

Plus with Ebola there wouldn't be any "new bio weapon from the enemy" talk theory.
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As bad as ebola is, it only spreads when the symptoms show and victims can be all isolated. Not so with this beast which makes it so specially nasty. So it is actually very communicable, and has plenty of room for mutations making it more deadly. It is actually a nasty bioweapon. The chinese are losing trillions now.
I bet they released it themselves by accident or whatever. Of course they will NEVER admit, and of course for domestic news they will try to blame their enemy no1, currently the US.

Of course, when you read that some nasty Harward professor is now behind bars for smuggling bio material vials (unspecified) to China, and a few years ago helping to setup the said biolab in Wuhan it gets even weirder. I bet he was one of the gang from the previous evil administration and still playing very dirty games.
 
arclight said:
"but I do know we can't keep expanding our population"

Correct - that is the elephant in the room that is not being addressed. However, it is inescapable that it will need to be addressed before very long.
Global population is far outstripping the ability of the planet to support it. The choice is either to have a managed population or take the consequences which will bring a drop in population (in a most unpleasant way, I suspect).
Click to expand...


When I see tv footage of rush hour in the world's most densly-populated cities..esp Tokyo, those underground railway herds of paasengers..I think that we can't go on like this.

However, this 2016 article sees consumption as the key.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/20160311-how-many-people-can-our-planet-really-support
 
Mutation of the virus into something more contagious or more deadly is something to be concerned about. Seeing entire cities in lockdown could be something we see happen.
 
JohnC6 said:
When I see tv footage of rush hour in the world's most densly-populated cities..esp Tokyo, those underground railway herds of paasengers..I think that we can't go on like this.

However, this 2016 article sees consumption as the key.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/earth/story/20160311-how-many-people-can-our-planet-really-support
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Because of the close proximity of people, the Japanese have lots of habits that could potentially limit the transmission of disease.

For example, they are not a society that likes contact, they bow instead of shake hands. Even couples out in public don't hold hands.
When you pay, there is a tray to place your money down and they will put the change back down for you to pick it up,
You can order sushi on these conveyor belt trains "trains", vending machines everywhere. A lot of things are automated.
They use Sooooooooo much plastic in packaging, everything is sealed.
Every big building have alcohol dispensers at the entrance..
There is also the culture of mask wearing when you feel ill so not to spread germs.
They moved the fish market to a new building last year because the old market had people and raw fish side by side. The new building you can't go to as a visitor, it is much cleaner.
There is also a habit that they think blowing your nose in public is bad manners, people will suck it back and swallow it.

The streets in general are so clean you can practically eat off of it. People don't litter, don't spit and don't walk and eat so there are no crumbs around, meaning less chance of rodents.
 
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