The virus. PPE. Part 1

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Tringa said:
Can anyone explain formula to me?

View: https://BANNED/BorisJohnson/status/1259572964447653892


As we have been told there are five Covid Alert Levels which range from 1 to 5, this formula clearly cannot mean what the mathematical symbols indicate.

Would it not have been better to just say the Covid Alert Level will be based on the infection rate and the number of infections?

The cynic in me makes me think the formula was used to try and may it look more authoritative.

Dave
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Its Science Jim, but not as we know it!
 
Furlough extended till October!!! Well on the one hand thats good for people but this is going to cost us an awful amount in the future. Plus, it goes to show that we do not expect leisure industry to be anywhere normal until October... and I can see that being extended again!!!
 
cambsno said:
Furlough extended till October!!! Well on the one hand thats good for people but this is going to cost us an awful amount in the future. Plus, it goes to show that we do not expect leisure industry to be anywhere normal until October... and I can see that being extended again!!!
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I agree and I don’t know why they are even talking about opening pubs and cinemas when I haven’t seen any mention about dentists, opticians and GP services returning to normal. Priorities [emoji848][emoji848]
 
Peter10d said:
I agree and I don’t know why they are even talking about opening pubs and cinemas when I haven’t seen any mention about dentists, opticians and GP services returning to normal. Priorities [emoji848][emoji848]
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Exactly, pubs are needed NOW!!!

I thought I saw someone at Tesco opticians the other day getting something done?
 
Friend of mine posted something which sums up the governments failures... she is a self employed cleaner and subject to distancing etc... she can start going back to clean peoples homes. Yet (she has 2 kids over 18 who don't live with her), she cant visit her 2 sons in their home!!!! WTF??
 
cambsno said:
Furlough extended till October!!! Well on the one hand thats good for people but this is going to cost us an awful amount in the future. Plus, it goes to show that we do not expect leisure industry to be anywhere normal until October... and I can see that being extended again!!!
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And it's staying at 80% despite the rumours that it was going to be reduced to 60%. My furlough is due to end at the end of this month but I expect it to be extended. I work in the hotel industry and currently, only 50 of our 580 hotels are open. I can't see that changing before the end of the month, probably not until July at the earliest.
 
Marc said:
And it's staying at 80% despite the rumours that it was going to be reduced to 60%. My furlough is due to end at the end of this month but I expect it to be extended. I work in the hotel industry and currently, only 50 of our 580 hotels are open. I can't see that changing before the end of the month, probably not until July at the earliest.
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One thing I have not seen is the effect on those earning more than the 2.5k per month - there must be many people who have had pay cut maybe in half who may now be starting to struggle, or are most on furlough on or below this banding.
 
Shrewsbury's Conservative MP Daniel Kawczynski said the Welsh Government should be abolished so he could go to the beach. His nearest beach is in England . Prick.
 
cambsno said:
One thing I have not seen is the effect on those earning more than the 2.5k per month - there must be many people who have had pay cut maybe in half who may now be starting to struggle, or are most on furlough on or below this banding.
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Some employers will pay more, but can only claim £2500 back.
 
cambsno said:
Friend of mine posted something which sums up the governments failures... she is a self employed cleaner and subject to distancing etc... she can start going back to clean peoples homes. Yet (she has 2 kids over 18 who don't live with her), she cant visit her 2 sons in their home!!!! WTF??
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She can, they just have to pay her :)
 
cambsno said:
Exactly, pubs are needed NOW!!!

I thought I saw someone at Tesco opticians the other day getting something done?
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I think some opticians are open for emergencies but routine eye tests are not happening according to a neighbour who is an optician with Boots. She has been furloughed for weeks now with no indication when she will be back to work.
Many people should be getting regular eye pressure tests and I know of a couple of cases where this is not happening.
It just seems wrong to me that we might be able to sit in a pub and cinema but if we have a cracked tooth or eye issues we are just left to our own devices. I am all for restarting the economy where it is safe and practical to do so, but I feel the emphasis should be with health first.
 
Peter10d said:
I think some opticians are open for emergencies but routine eye tests are not happening according to a neighbour who is an optician with Boots. She has been furloughed for weeks now with no indication when she will be back to work.
Many people should be getting regular eye pressure tests and I know of a couple of cases where this is not happening.
It just seems wrong to me that we might be able to sit in a pub and cinema but if we have a cracked tooth or eye issues we are just left to our own devices. I am all for restarting the economy where it is safe and practical to do so, but I feel the emphasis should be with health first.
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But thats the thing, until we get a vaccine, it will not be 'safe' to do so.We could get a vaccine in 12 months, it could be 24 months, or even longer. The amount of deaths from people with no health conditions under the age of 50 (and possibly 60) is very, very low. Really don't see why we cant get things moving quicker and just make sure those at risk are properly shielded?
 
cambsno said:
One thing I have not seen is the effect on those earning more than the 2.5k per month - there must be many people who have had pay cut maybe in half who may now be starting to struggle, or are most on furlough on or below this banding.
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Bobsyeruncle said:
Some employers will pay more, but can only claim £2500 back.
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This. My company is topping up the salaries of those who earn over £2.5k a month. (sadly, I don't fall into this category). Given that, for larger companies, the majority earn under £30k pa, it is far cheaper to top up those who earn more than pay the extra 20% for those that earn less.

Should also point out that, if you are getting 80% of your gross salary, you will receive more than 80% of your net pay. I had my 1st pay since furlough at the end of April (furloughed 1st April) and my take home pay was 87% of normal.
 
Peter10d said:
I think some opticians are open for emergencies but routine eye tests are not happening according to a neighbour who is an optician with Boots. She has been furloughed for weeks now with no indication when she will be back to work.
Many people should be getting regular eye pressure tests and I know of a couple of cases where this is not happening.
It just seems wrong to me that we might be able to sit in a pub and cinema but if we have a cracked tooth or eye issues we are just left to our own devices. I am all for restarting the economy where it is safe and practical to do so, but I feel the emphasis should be with health first.
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I can see that going to a pub or cinema but not to a dentist or opticians seems rather inconsistent.

But going to either a dentist or optician is very risky, you will be coming into very close contact with someone (and maybe multiple people) who themselves have in very close contact with multiple people. Despite all the precautions, I would guess that going to either optician or dentist will be highly risky. Though I appreciate many will have no choice but to go.
 
Uncle Fester said:
I can see that going to a pub or cinema but not to a dentist or opticians seems rather inconsistent.

But going to either a dentist or optician is very risky, you will be coming into very close contact with someone (and maybe multiple people) who themselves have in very close contact with multiple people. Despite all the precautions, I would guess that going to either optician or dentist will be highly risky. Though I appreciate many will have no choice but to go.
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Exactly, my daughter is an Optometrist and has also been furloughed.
It's actually the NHS who dictate whether their eye tests can be undertaken and financed so until they so it will be a non runner
Any serious eye problem would need to be dealt with by an ophthalmologist anyway.
 
Uncle Fester said:
I can see that going to a pub or cinema but not to a dentist or opticians seems rather inconsistent.

But going to either a dentist or optician is very risky, you will be coming into very close contact with someone (and maybe multiple people) who themselves have in very close contact with multiple people. Despite all the precautions, I would guess that going to either optician or dentist will be highly risky. Though I appreciate many will have no choice but to go.
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I agree but surely they should be looking at ways with spaced booked appointments to accommodate people. These places can’t stay shut until we get a vaccine.
I would rather take if necessary a risk going to get a tooth or eye problem checked than sitting in a pub next to some drunk that has lost all sense of perspective.
 
tijuana taxi said:
Exactly, my daughter is an Optometrist and has also been furloughed.
It's actually the NHS who dictate whether their eye tests can be undertaken and financed so until they so it will be a non runner
Any serious eye problem would need to be dealt with by an ophthalmologist anyway.
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Of course nobody would suggest sending an optician back to work without PPE as it is clearly a risk along with dentistry. But surely at some stage soon the NHS or whoever makes the decision has to look at restoring some service. The alternative of it being closed until we find a vaccine just doesn’t seem to be a sensible option IMO.
If we plan to reopen schools, pubs and cinemas with social distancing then surely we can have a similar plan for other NHS workers.
 
Peter10d said:
Of course nobody would suggest sending an optician back to work without PPE as it is clearly a risk along with dentistry. But surely at some stage soon the NHS or whoever makes the decision has to look at restoring some service. The alternative of it being closed until we find a vaccine just doesn’t seem to be a sensible option IMO.
If we plan to reopen schools, pubs and cinemas with social distancing then surely we can have a similar plan for other NHS workers.
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On that note why are reception kids (and maybe yr1) going to be at school first? How do you socially distance them (especially as most of them have snotty noses!!!). I guess it COULD be that by them going back, makes it easier for parents to go back to work, but that doesnt help many who may have a 3yo or a 7yo - cant leave them at home! Surely it makes sense to put back in other years, What is the basis for this!!!
 
cambsno said:
On that note why are reception kids (and maybe yr1) going to be at school first? How do you socially distance them (especially as most of them have snotty noses!!!). I guess it COULD be that by them going back, makes it easier for parents to go back to work, but that doesnt help many who may have a 3yo or a 7yo - cant leave them at home! Surely it makes sense to put back in other years, What is the basis for this!!!
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Snotty noses [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]. But a very valid point.
 
Leave schools shut until September, no confusion and time to plan an orderly return
Also gets past the hay fever season, last thing you currently need is lots of sneezing
 
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Marc said:
This. My company is topping up the salaries of those who earn over £2.5k a month. (sadly, I don't fall into this category). Given that, for larger companies, the majority earn under £30k pa, it is far cheaper to top up those who earn more than pay the extra 20% for those that earn less.

Should also point out that, if you are getting 80% of your gross salary, you will receive more than 80% of your net pay. I had my 1st pay since furlough at the end of April (furloughed 1st April) and my take home pay was 87% of normal.
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I work shifts and my gross pay is more than the £2.5k. My employer is paying the extra 20%, but as being furloughed is the same as lay off pay, we don't get paid any shift rate. As a result I am down around £70 on net pay for an early shift week and about £110 down for a late shift week.
 
nilagin said:
I work shifts and my gross pay is more than the £2.5k. My employer is paying the extra 20%, but as being furloughed is the same as lay off pay, we don't get paid any shift rate. As a result I am down around £70 on net pay for an early shift week and about £110 down for a late shift week.
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I'm down just shy of £50 a week but I'm fortunate in that my wife is working from home. As she usually works in London, we're currently saving on rail fare and parking so things could be whole lot worse.
 
cambsno said:
On that note why are reception kids (and maybe yr1) going to be at school first? How do you socially distance them (especially as most of them have snotty noses!!!). I guess it COULD be that by them going back, makes it easier for parents to go back to work, but that doesnt help many who may have a 3yo or a 7yo - cant leave them at home! Surely it makes sense to put back in other years, What is the basis for this!!!
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It is reception and years 1 and 6 that they are looking at sending back first. They are going to restrict class sizes to no more than 15 kids. On the TV this morning they spoke to a teacher in Denmark, their kids went back 3 weeks ago, they also have a 15 maximum, she said in some classes they have 7 or 8 kids. The playgrounds have been divided up into zones and kids play within a small group. All existing toys have been thrown away and replaced by new toys which can be cleaned regularly. I can't remember if they wear masks, but the kids and teachers are washing their hands regularly throughout the day. The teacher was happy with everything they had in place and how smoothly it all ran.
 
nilagin said:
It is reception and years 1 and 6 that they are looking at sending back first. They are going to restrict class sizes to no more than 15 kids. On the TV this morning they spoke to a teacher in Denmark, their kids went back 3 weeks ago, they also have a 15 maximum, she said in some classes they have 7 or 8 kids. The playgrounds have been divided up into zones and kids play within a small group. All existing toys have been thrown away and replaced by new toys which can be cleaned regularly. I can't remember if they wear masks, but the kids and teachers are washing their hands regularly throughout the day. The teacher was happy with everything they had in place and how smoothly it all ran.
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Have no problem with schools returning but reception would be the last age group to go back I would have thought?
 
Dentistry is a tough one (there was a long discussion about this on a recent This Week in Virology). You can try to keep symptomatic patients away from the surgery, but it's now thought the virus is transmissible for a couple of days before symptoms develop, and it's in saliva. Various standard dental procedures aerosolize whatever is in your mouth. High risk for the dentist, and for the next patient. So more PPE (including face shields) and a dilute hydrogen peroxide mouth wash for the patients to try to get rid of as much virus as possible before the start of the procedure.
 
Of the 23,709 confirmed reported deaths so far in hospitals in England of people who tested positive for Covid-19, 12,451 (53%) have been people aged 80 and over while 9,184 (39%) were 60-79, NHS England said.

So 91% of all hospital Covid-19 deaths have been people aged 60 or over.

A further 1,890 (8%) were aged 40-59, with 172 (1%) aged 20-39 and 12 (0.05%) aged 0-19.

So, 91% are people aged 60+, really keen to understand why we are not looking at better isolation/protection for that age group and easing restrictions on others. For those under 40 its 1% (and these dont factor in underlying health conditions which would probably account for a large chunk of these). Would like to see the 40-59 bracket broken down in 5 year gaps as would assume that this would still be relatively low in the sub 50 bracket.
 
Marc said:
I'm down just shy of £50 a week but I'm fortunate in that my wife is working from home. As she usually works in London, we're currently saving on rail fare and parking so things could be whole lot worse.
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I am only saving on petrol, probably about £90 a month. My wife works at a local school helping with breakfast club and dinner lady at midday to key worker kids. But instead of working every day, she only does a few shifts a week at the moment, she has no idea what she is being paid at the moment.

Fortunately I earn in excess of my outgoings, the amount of money I am down each week, just means less money to save or spend on luxuries.
 
cambsno said:
Furlough extended till October!!! Well on the one hand thats good for people but this is going to cost us an awful amount in the future. Plus, it goes to show that we do not expect leisure industry to be anywhere normal until October... and I can see that being extended again!!!
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Alot of people that were furloughed will have gone back. But due to social distancing it isn't possible for everyone to be back at work all at once. That's why I will be working for 3 weeks then furloughed again for 3 weeks and so on. Also some industries will have to ramp up slowly.
 
'Unless the government changes tack, the UK's lockdown will have been for nothing'

'Easing social distancing without a proper programme of testing, contact tracing and isolating will lead to a second wave of coronavirus'

'...But on our current path we seem destined for a disastrous ending. Lifting lockdown without the public health infrastructure in place to contain the virus will allow Covid-19 to spread through the population unchecked. The result could be a Darwinian culling of the elderly and vulnerable, and an individual gamble for those exposed to the virus. This should be avoided at all costs.'

-Devi Sridhar is chair of global public health at the University of Edinburgh

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...al-distancing-testing-second-wave-coronavirus
 
Retune said:
'Unless the government changes tack, the UK's lockdown will have been for nothing'

'Easing social distancing without a proper programme of testing, contact tracing and isolating will lead to a second wave of coronavirus'

'...But on our current path we seem destined for a disastrous ending. Lifting lockdown without the public health infrastructure in place to contain the virus will allow Covid-19 to spread through the population unchecked. The result could be a Darwinian culling of the elderly and vulnerable, and an individual gamble for those exposed to the virus. This should be avoided at all costs.'

-Devi Sridhar is chair of global public health at the University of Edinburgh

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...al-distancing-testing-second-wave-coronavirus
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We aren't easing social distancing though, it's being maintained.
 
Some rules are being relaxed - that's what easing social distancing means, not just the 2 metre distance. Want to play tennis with a friend or drive to the beach? This week, that''s fine. More schools and shops are slated to re-open in June. A return to work is now encouraged. But the main point is that the infrastructure for widespread community testing, tracing and isolation is not in place. That should be the first priority.
 
cambsno said:
So, 91% are people aged 60+, really keen to understand why we are not looking at better isolation/protection for that age group and easing restrictions on others.
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Because it's possibly the under 60's who are benefitting the most from the population-wide restrictions. They are the ones most likely to have large amounts of social contact, and therefore at the greatest risk of catching and spreading the virus. As well as the ones more likely to travel larger distances across the country and spread the virus into areas that might otherwise have been virus free.

The risks of dying are of course much lower for these age groups, but if you have a much larger number catching it, you could still end up with a large number of deaths, or survivors with permanent health conditions. Much larger than we are currently seeing.

I did ask myself the same question some weeks ago because I suspect that an approach with high levels of protection for the elderly and of furloughing the over 60s who are still working would have been a lot easier and cheaper than a population-wide approach. But a population-wide approach reaches across all age groups and provides benefits for the young as well as the old.

There are of course some nuances to my argument, e.g how exactly you split the effort between protecting the young and old, but in principle I think this why we need to have strict population-wide restrictions in place and not focus too much on specific age groups.
 
Retune said:
Some rules are being relaxed - that's what easing social distancing means, not just the 2 metre distance. Want to play tennis with a friend or drive to the beach? This week, that''s fine. More schools and shops are slated to re-open in June. A return to work is now encouraged.
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That's lockdown rules being relaxed. The social side of it is just a by product. The 2m rule is the important social distancing measure and that is being maintained.
 
cambsno said:
Have no problem with schools returning but reception would be the last age group to go back I would have thought?
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(My bold) For the government it’s all about the Economy, hence all the early emphasis on ‘herd immunity” and remember one of the guiding hands, Cummings, is keen on Eugenics which gives an idea of his mindset :(.

Young children are both least likely to catch/die from the virus but also the Economy has the least investment in them and they are more easily replaceable (not individually of course) :(.

Also Johnson is, or thinks of himself as a classicist — think not Greece but Sparta:(.
 
I noticed a piece of return to work advice today

If you must use public transport try to avoid busy times, if was still working i could go to work and say ime not late just avoiding busy times


They just don't understand
 
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