The virus. PPE. Part 1

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RWDW said:
Interestingly the Majority of the public are more in tune with my thoughts than the regular 'centre left' posters here:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...7/covid-19-support-government-reaction-swells

We know media like the Guardian will never back a Conservative Govt yet a high proportion of regular posters seem to link to it as 'fact'.

Likewise I had the misfortune of an incident I had been involved with being the subject of a Panorama 'investigation' - the twisting and lies that the program aired was unbelievable - it was clear they had an agenda to meet and the program was edited to meet that agenda rather than an unbiased truth.
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Yougov, the Tory founded pollsters....

Regarding your previous history with Panorama, care to share details, otherwise it appears as just another anonymous smear Boris Robert.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Loads of people have died from other causes.

If you subtract the number of dead from the 5 year average you get a figure a lot higher than the current death toll. Suggesting if anything, the numbers are under-stated.
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Do you not think enough people have died without wishing misery on more families.
I doubt the true figures are that readily known but if the records are kept straight now
it will show we are winning the fight and that is what matters
 
joxby said:
oh well, that's me convinced then

:ROFLMAO:
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I posted this litle snippet a while ago ago, but it's still quite valid today.

Ever wondered why the BBC are now so impartial?......

"" A number of changes made durng the last 10 years or so, spearheaded by David Cameron, have led to the corporations news and politics departments becoming little more than ventriloquists dummies. Of particular note is the following:

a) important roles at the BBC being filled with pro-government figures from the private sector(Rona Fairhead, David Clementi, James Harding, Robbie Gibb etc).
b) direct links with the manilupative tabloid press being strengthened by Downing St giving important positions to dubious characters like Andy Coulson and Craig Oliver.
c) the subsequent recruitment of people like Alison Fuller Pedley (of Mentorn media) who is responsible for choosing who gets to be in the question time audience, and Sarah Sands (formerly of The Telegraph, Mail and Evening standard) who now edits Radio 4's Today programme.
d) all of the above followed Camerons appointment, in June 2010, of John Browne (Baron Browne of Madingley) to the post of 'lead non-executive director' for Downing St. his role being that of ' recruiting bussiness leaders to reform departmental boards' - Browne's questionable history at BP notwithstanding ( remember Deep Horizon!)
e) how all of this quiet, underhand activity has been largely unreported, but has given the current Conservative government immense powerwithin fashionable and influential circles.

This means they (the government) can not only dictate what information is made available to the public but also the manner in which it is presented. You don't need to read many pages of that book by George Orwell to grasp how easy it is to control the populace ,once you have control of the means of communication.""
 
RWDW said:
Interestingly the Majority of the public are more in tune with my thoughts than the regular 'centre left' posters here:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...7/covid-19-support-government-reaction-swells

We know media like the Guardian will never back a Conservative Govt yet a high proportion of regular posters seem to link to it as 'fact'.

Likewise I had the misfortune of an incident I had been involved with being the subject of a Panorama 'investigation' - the twisting and lies that the program aired was unbelievable - it was clear they had an agenda to meet and the program was edited to meet that agenda rather than an unbiased truth.
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The UK mainstream media is the most right-wing and the least trusted in Europe, but you suck it up mate. For decades a handful of savagely right-wing propaganda barons have been allowed to debase the standard of political debate by relentlessly attacking and smearing anyone who dares to stand up and argue against the neoliberal orthodoxy (privatisation mania, deregulation, wage repression, tax cuts for the rich, social security cuts for the poor, ruinous austerity dogma and now full support for Johnson/Cummings and their band of Berks) that has served the interests of billionaires so well at the expense of the rest of us. But yeah, the Guardian...........
 
mex said:
For decades a handful of savagely right-wing propaganda barons have been allowed to debase the standard of political debate
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A more moderate government than the current one could address this by reforming corporate governance rules. Some possible changes include...
  • Treating all companies that share any directors or controlling minds as one company for the purposes of taxation and debt collection.
  • Requiring all public companies to carry out votes on the basis of "one shareholder one vote" instead of "one share one vote".
  • Making all directors and controlling minds jointly and severally responsible in any criminal or civil action against the company.
  • Requring all persons standing for or holding public office to declare full details of their relationships with any employee, director or contolling mind of a media outlet.
 
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tarric said:
So I take it from this that you don't like that as part of the programme they interviewed someone who is a Labour activist as the Tory supporting papers put it, but you are quite prepared to quote from sources that support, fund and work for the Tory Party.
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He's a russian tory bot...
 
Gremlin said:
Do you not think enough people have died without wishing misery on more families.
I doubt the true figures are that readily known but if the records are kept straight now
it will show we are winning the fight and that is what matters
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How on earth is pointing out someone is incorrect about other causes not being reported somehow wishing misery on anyone?
 
Just had a visit from the gas safety check. The people who arranged the check, did say the engineer would be wearing full protective clothing. He came in jeans and Tshirt but no gloves or mask. Me and the missus tried to keep our distance best we could. o_O
 
jonbeeza said:
Just had a visit from the gas safety check. The people who arranged the check, did say the engineer would be wearing full protective clothing. He came in jeans and Tshirt but no gloves or mask. Me and the missus tried to keep our distance best we could. o_O
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Did you hold your breath...:confused:

A work colleague has a 70 year old obese copd suffering widowed father in law, he's been keeping in touch with him by phone checking to see if he is ok.
During one of their earlier conversations he asked about doing his shopping for him since supermarkets are not places he in his condition ought to visit.
Anyway, he said he was doing his own shopping and not to worry as he was taking precautions by holding his breath...:hungover:
Obviously that was stamped on pdq but I'm constantly amazed by the blase apathetic attitude of some people to covid.
 
joxby said:
Did you hold your breath...:confused:

A work colleague has a 70 year old obese copd suffering widowed father in law, he's been keeping in touch with him by phone checking to see if he is ok.
During one of their earlier conversations he asked about doing his shopping for him since supermarkets are not places he in his condition ought to visit.
Anyway, he said he was doing his own shopping and not to worry as he was taking precautions by holding his breath...:hungover:
Obviously that was stamped on pdq but I'm constantly amazed by the blase apathetic attitude of some people to covid.
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The engineer was a lovely chap, very chatty and very friendly. probably a little too friendly under the circumstances. Missus is in the at risk group, having a long term medical problem and being very weak and frail. I just made sure we kept our distance, and sprayed everything after he had left. :confused:
 
jonbeeza said:
Just had a visit from the gas safety check. The people who arranged the check, did say the engineer would be wearing full protective clothing. He came in jeans and Tshirt but no gloves or mask. Me and the missus tried to keep our distance best we could. o_O
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I’m guessing this was not a British Gas engineer as they are only supposed to be responding to urgent cases at the moment and not doing servicing work?
 
RWDW said:
Interestingly the Majority of the public are more in tune with my thoughts than the regular 'centre left' posters here:

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic...7/covid-19-support-government-reaction-swells

We know media like the Guardian will never back a Conservative Govt yet a high proportion of regular posters seem to link to it as 'fact'.

Likewise I had the misfortune of an incident I had been involved with being the subject of a Panorama 'investigation' - the twisting and lies that the program aired was unbelievable - it was clear they had an agenda to meet and the program was edited to meet that agenda rather than an unbiased truth.
Click to expand...

That ’ support-government-reaction-swells ‘ was on mar 27th ! I am betting another poll now would get very different findings.
 
Peter10d said:
I’m guessing this was not a British Gas engineer as they are only supposed to be responding to urgent cases at the moment and not doing servicing work?
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No, it was a small private company who have the contract.
 
mex said:
Has Piers Morgan seen the light?
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When someone like that lays into the government with such venom it reveals just how little respect remains for them even among their core supporters.

Piers Morgan seems to asses the situation with reasonable accuracy. The government have done themselves few favours in the way they've ignored logic, ignored their mistakes and ignored the advice of peope who know what needs doing and how to do it.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
When someone like that lays into the government with such venom it reveals just how little respect remains for them even among their core supporters.

Piers Morgan seems to asses the situation with reasonable accuracy. The government have done themselves few favours in the way they've ignored logic, ignored their mistakes and ignored the advice of peope who know what needs doing and how to do it.
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I also think our Piers has his own agenda.;)
 
badlywornroy said:
That ’ support-government-reaction-swells ‘ was on mar 27th ! I am betting another poll now would get very different findings.
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AndrewFlannigan said:
When someone like that lays into the government with such venom it reveals just how little respect remains for them even among their core supporters.

Piers Morgan seems to asses the situation with reasonable accuracy. The government have done themselves few favours in the way they've ignored logic, ignored their mistakes and ignored the advice of peope who know what needs doing and how to do it.
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Exactly why I posted this later poll earlier:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107613/government-handling-of-coronavirus-in-the-uk/

I think the people on the centre left of Politics are dillusional TBH; it's a bit like how they were going to win an election only a short few months ago before they got their biggest 'drumming' for a long while.

Always seem to get the political mood of the country very wrong - then rather than learn from it they continue in the same old fashion as before - it's the behaviour of lemmings.
 
RWDW said:
Exactly why I posted this later poll earlier:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107613/government-handling-of-coronavirus-in-the-uk/

I think the people on the centre left of Politics are dillusional TBH; it's a bit like how they were going to win an election only a short few months ago before they got their biggest 'drumming' for a long while.

Always seem to get the political mood of the country very wrong - then rather than learn from it they continue in the same old fashion as before - it's the behaviour of lemmings.
Click to expand...

I would refer you to post #6813.

The rabid-rightwing press are hard at work trying to f*****g justify over 40000 people losing their lives, and shallow minded suckers are believing it and nigh on heap praise on a PM who couldn't lie straight in bed. Even the Coronavirus updates on BBC are being used as a propaganda broadcast.
 
RWDW said:
Exactly why I posted this later poll earlier:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107613/government-handling-of-coronavirus-in-the-uk/

I think the people on the centre left of Politics are dillusional TBH; it's a bit like how they were going to win an election only a short few months ago before they got their biggest 'drumming' for a long while.

Always seem to get the political mood of the country very wrong - then rather than learn from it they continue in the same old fashion as before - it's the behaviour of lemmings.
Click to expand...
“Drumming” what kind of drums where they?
 
mex said:
I would refer you to post #6813.

The rabid-rightwing press are hard at work trying to f*****g justify over 40000 people losing their lives, and shallow minded suckers are believing it and nigh on heap praise on a PM who couldn't lie straight in bed. Even the Coronavirus updates on BBC are being used as a propaganda broadcast.
Click to expand...

Again the ongoing failings from the left wing; the attitude that our Politics is correct so everyone else must be stupid falling for the propoganda. (Shallow minded suckers you call them) :rolleyes:


Retune said:
The opinion poll I'd really like to see would be one where they ask the people of New Zealand or South Korea whether they think the British government has handled the situation well.
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First - not so sure how many people in these countries follow the politics of the UK that closely to make an opinion poll viable/reliable, second - they can't vote in a UK general election so it matters not one iota what they think.

Comparing what has happened in different countries around the world is so pointless as there are so many factors at play.
 
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RWDW said:
First - not so sure how many people in these countries follow the politics of the UK that closely to make an opinion poll viable/reliable, second - they can't vote in a UK general election so it matters not one iota what they think.

Comparing what has happened in different countries around the world is so pointless as there are so many factors at play.
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Not many people in the UK follow the politics of the UK that closely, either, but we are still interested in their opinions. And an election is nearly 5 years away - you'd have to be a political sociopath like Dominic Cummings for that to be your main concern at this point. But the main reason to ask the citizens of a country like South Korea what they think is that they may have a certain perspective we lack, and could point to some rather stark facts we can only turn a blind eye to if we want to imagine we are doing well. South Korea is a densely populated peninsula run by a democracy. We are a densely populated democratic island nation with a lightly larger population - about 1.3x South Korea's. But the death toll here is not 1.3x greater. Nor is it 5x, 10x, 20x or 50x greater. It's over 100x greater, and perhaps as much as 150x greater by some estimates.

Yes, there are lots of differences between countries but one of them really stands out - South Korea rapidly put into action a policy of large-scale testing, tracking, contact tracing and isolation, just as the WHO has always recommended, when we were still dithering and making noises about herd immunity. They had a significant outbreak, but rather than giving up on contact tracing after a few weeks, as we did, they doubled down and went after every case. The result is that they didn't just flatten the curve, they largely squashed it, all without significant lockdowns. If there's nothing to be learnt from comparing what has happened in different countries, why do you suppose we are now following their lead with talk of an 'army' of contact tracers, mobile phone tracking apps, and greatly increased testing capacity? Even our PM is now talking about wearing masks in public to protect others, something that has been part of the Korean policy since the beginning. At a certain point, we have to look around us, acknowledge what we have done badly, see what has worked better elsewhere, and change our strategy accordingly. Thankfully, there are some indications this is finally starting to happen.
 
mex said:
I would refer you to post #6813.

The rabid-rightwing press are hard at work trying to f*****g justify over 40000 people losing their lives, and shallow minded suckers are believing it and nigh on heap praise on a PM who couldn't lie straight in bed. Even the Coronavirus updates on BBC are being used as a propaganda broadcast.
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They are a flipping joke! Todays priceless Hancock moment was a great example of asking a question then ignoring it. The public asked "if schools start back and I choose not to send my child back, will i be fined'? All Hancock did was bleat on about them only opening up schools if safe to do so, then a 5 min discussion on how kids are not affected by this. At no point idd je answer the question, he didn't even fluff around it, he just ignored it!!

But a serious note, does that mean schools are not going back for say 18 months (or when we have a vaccine? As even if r goes down to 0.3, it will not be 'safe' as there is still a chance they could pick up something. Now for most of us thats not an issue, but what if that childs parent has one of the serious conditions? In the literal sense, it will not be safe for kids to go back, or indeed for any of us to do anything. It may be safer, but not safe.

The bloke really is a useless tool!!
 
Retune said:
The opinion poll I'd really like to see would be one where they ask the people of New Zealand or South Korea whether they think the British government has handled the situation well.
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Not sure how relevant it is - NZ for example is bigger than here, has 5m people, is remote, does not have anywhere near the passing traffic we do at airports etc...). Not to say we have not got things wrong or made mistakes, we have, but what do you measure 'success' as? Would the average Belgian say we have handled it better than they have?
 
Retune said:
Even our PM is now talking about wearing masks in public to protect others, something that has been part of the Korean policy since the beginning. At a certain point, we have to look around us, acknowledge what we have done badly, see what has worked better elsewhere, and change our strategy accordingly. Thankfully, there are some indications this is finally starting to happen.
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The WHO still say that masks should only be worn by medical staff etc... and they are of little use to the public. While they may contain it better if you cough, it could lead to you getting infected due to bad handling, becoming damp, etc... All of Asia, not just SK wear masks a lot. You see lots of tourists here doing it, its a cultural thing. Based on that, the wearing of masks would have made next to no difference. Not to mention that state the NHS were in if Joe public them bought loads of ppe!
 
RWDW said:
Again the ongoing failings from the left wing; the attitude that our Politics is correct so everyone else must be stupid falling for the propoganda. (Shallow minded suckers you call them) :rolleyes:
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It would seem you have fallen for them :giggle: but I'll refrain from calling you stupid, you've done that for yourself.

edit: did you read #6813?
 
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cambsno said:
Not sure how relevant it is - NZ for example is bigger than here, has 5m people, is remote, does not have anywhere near the passing traffic we do at airports etc...). Not to say we have not got things wrong or made mistakes, we have, but what do you measure 'success' as? Would the average Belgian say we have handled it better than they have?
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None of these things apply to South Korea. And yes, several other European countries have also done badly, but we should be learning from the countries that have done well.

cambsno said:
The WHO still say that masks should only be worn by medical staff etc... and they are of little use to the public. While they may contain it better if you cough, it could lead to you getting infected due to bad handling, becoming damp, etc... All of Asia, not just SK wear masks a lot. You see lots of tourists here doing it, its a cultural thing. Based on that, the wearing of masks would have made next to no difference. Not to mention that state the NHS were in if Joe public them bought loads of ppe!
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Surely our Prime Minister can't be wrong?! The current WHO advice is rather equivocal - the main arguments against are the risks of creating shortages for healthcare workers, self-contamination through improper use, and perhaps giving a false sense of security. But while it's unclear if there's worthwhile protection for the wearer, there's better evidence for protection from the wearer: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2
 
RWDW said:
Exactly why I posted this later poll earlier:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107613/government-handling-of-coronavirus-in-the-uk/

I think the people on the centre left of Politics are dillusional TBH; it's a bit like how they were going to win an election only a short few months ago before they got their biggest 'drumming' for a long while.

Always seem to get the political mood of the country very wrong - then rather than learn from it they continue in the same old fashion as before - it's the behaviour of lemmings.
Click to expand...

As I keep saving easy to find polls that suit your agenda.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/26/trust-wanes-in-uk-ministers-handling-of-coronavirus-pandemic-poll
www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/2020-04/coronavirus-covid-19-infographic-ipsos-mori.pdf
 
Retune said:
Not many people in the UK follow the politics of the UK that closely, either, but we are still interested in their opinions. And an election is nearly 5 years away - you'd have to be a political sociopath like Dominic Cummings for that to be your main concern at this point. But the main reason to ask the citizens of a country like South Korea what they think is that they may have a certain perspective we lack, and could point to some rather stark facts we can only turn a blind eye to if we want to imagine we are doing well. South Korea is a densely populated peninsula run by a democracy. We are a densely populated democratic island nation with a lightly larger population - about 1.3x South Korea's. But the death toll here is not 1.3x greater. Nor is it 5x, 10x, 20x or 50x greater. It's over 100x greater, and perhaps as much as 150x greater by some estimates.

Yes, there are lots of differences between countries but one of them really stands out - South Korea rapidly put into action a policy of large-scale testing, tracking, contact tracing and isolation, just as the WHO has always recommended, when we were still dithering and making noises about herd immunity. They had a significant outbreak, but rather than giving up on contact tracing after a few weeks, as we did, they doubled down and went after every case. The result is that they didn't just flatten the curve, they largely squashed it, all without significant lockdowns. If there's nothing to be learnt from comparing what has happened in different countries, why do you suppose we are now following their lead with talk of an 'army' of contact tracers, mobile phone tracking apps, and greatly increased testing capacity? Even our PM is now talking about wearing masks in public to protect others, something that has been part of the Korean policy since the beginning. At a certain point, we have to look around us, acknowledge what we have done badly, see what has worked better elsewhere, and change our strategy accordingly. Thankfully, there are some indications this is finally starting to happen.
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So...........the Government contains politicians very few of which have scientific qualifications (I'd imagine) but they listen to the best scientific advice this country has to offer; these medical advisors know this country better than just an overview from the WHO and the government take the advice of their scientific advisors - sounds sensible to me but obviously not your view.
 
mex said:
It would seem you have fallen for them :giggle: but I'll refrain from calling you stupid, you've done that for yourself.

edit: did you read #6813?
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It sounds like you 'clever' people aren't doing a very good job of educating us 'stupid' people because I can't remeber a 'left of cenre' government being elected. ;)
 
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