The ugly face of capitalism?

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Llamaman said:
No it isn't. I've never paid a penny to Facebook, Google or ITV despite using their services.

"Real, true public sector" doesn't care who pays it, as long as it gets paid. What you're describing is political ideology, not a business model.
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Advertising funds those sectors. The NHS is paid for out of tax revenues. ie the state.
 
onomatopoeia said:
I want to understand how you define it, since that hasn't happened to the NHS..
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I don't know about Phil, but I define it the way it is in the OED (see above).

If privatisation means "consumer pays at point of service", then logically phone calls must have been free before British Telecom was privatised. I don't recall that :D
If privatisation means "listed on stock exchange" how does that tally with 31% of Qinetiq being sold to Carlyle Group 3 years before the rest was sold on LSE? Is that 31% not privatisation? If not, what is it?
 
ST4 said:
Advertising funds those sectors. The NHS is paid for out of tax revenues. ie the state.
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But you said private sector requires the consumer to pay the cost at the point of service. I use their services (as do the advertisers) so why do I not pay anything? Is Google not a "true" private sector?

Is it, perhaps, because your simplistic definitions suit your political ideology but not real-world scenarios?
 
ST4 said:
So why then is the NHS still free for users? Because the state funds the behemoth of the thing.
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And that could continue to be the case after privatisation. Because, as has been pointed out to you now several times, privatisation does not preclude state funding, only state ownership and control.
 
ST4 said:
More than likely although random people in random places seemed to share my thoughts on immigration and taxation.
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I've met plenty of people who want to reduce immigration. Just no-one who thinks that potential migrants are inherently inferior and sub-human because of their ethnicity. That's the bit that surprised me.
 
Llamaman said:
I've met plenty of people who want to reduce immigration. Just no-one who thinks that potential migrants are inherently inferior and sub-human because of their ethnicity. That's the bit that surprised me.
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I never said that. I used that phrase to describe an underclass of people who never have worked and who never will. Ethnicity didn't even enter my mind. I hope this helps clarify my choice of words.
 
ST4 said:
Why does it matter so long as its free at point of use who/what owns and runs it?
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Because if it's in private ownership, someone is making a profit from the provision of an essential service. Many people find that idea unpalatable - especially if that profit margin turns out to be larger than the efficiency savings (compared to the public sector) - meaning that as taxpayers we get less service for more cost, whilst private equity funds laugh all the way to Bermuda.
 
ST4 said:
I never said that. I used that phrase to describe an underclass of people who never have worked and who never will. Ethnicity didn't even enter my mind. I hope this helps clarify my choice of words.
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It clarifies how you will contort yourself to retrospectively try to justify a word that has a very clear unambiguous historical and cultural context.
 
Llamaman said:
It clarifies how you will contort yourself to retrospectively try to justify a word that has a very clear unambiguous historical and cultural context.
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I just see it as a word for underclass. I apply it to all sorts of things. Leftists get very caught up in actual words used, rather than the wider context and meaning in which they are used.

As soon as someone says youve lablled someone as such and such, I just switch off.
 
Llamaman said:
Because if it's in private ownership, someone is making a profit from the provision of an essential service. Many people find that idea unpalatable - especially if that profit margin turns out to be larger than the efficiency savings (compared to the public sector) - meaning that as taxpayers we get less service for more cost, whilst private equity funds laugh all the way to Bermuda.
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Why, whats wrong with profits that are big and people still get a good efficient service.
 
ST4 said:
I never said that. I used that phrase to describe an underclass of people who never have worked and who never will.
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I think you have a wildly distorted view of how many that is.
 
ST4 said:
I just see it as a word for underclass.
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Then why not say 'underclass'? Why dig out the Goebbels' Big Book of Dehumanising Propaganda? You knew what you were doing.

ST4 said:
I apply it to all sorts of things. Leftists get very caught up in actual words used, rather than the wider context and meaning in which they are used.
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The context gave exactly the same interpretation as the actual word.
You're the one doing the labelling ('leftist', 'untermensch' etc) not I. But the irony is probably lost on you in your hysteria.
 
ST4 said:
Why does it matter so long as its free at point of use who/what owns and runs it?
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Because I'm not too happy that my hard earned taxes pay for a substandard service yo ensure that some shareholders can make tax free profits. I'd much rather my money be spent on providing a better service.

I thought you were concerned about your taxes going to the wrong places? Make your mind up!
 
Llamaman said:
Then why not say 'underclass'? Why dig out the Goebbels' Big Book of Dehumanising Propaganda? You knew what you were doing.


The context gave exactly the same interpretation as the actual word.
You're the one doing the labelling ('leftist', 'untermensch' etc) not I. But the irony is probably lost on you in your hysteria.
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I'd guess that the word wasn't used to incite but out of a complete lack of understanding of its cultural significance, probably picked up on a right wing website where people use it to appear 'clever' (just a guess)
 
Llamaman said:
Then why not say 'underclass'? Why dig out the Goebbels' Big Book of Dehumanising Propaganda? You knew what you were doing.


The context gave exactly the same interpretation as the actual word.
You're the one doing the labelling ('leftist', 'untermensch' etc) not I. But the irony is probably lost on you in your hysteria.
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It;s just a word, I could have used underclass, I chose to use untermensch as it more vividly portrays the underclass and my views and disdain for the underclass of junkies, jobless criminal types etc.
 
Phil V said:
Because I'm not too happy that my hard earned taxes pay for a substandard service yo ensure that some shareholders can make tax free profits. I'd much rather my money be spent on providing a better service.

I thought you were concerned about your taxes going to the wrong places? Make your mind up!
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NHS is good, people consistently sing its praises on here. Quality wise it's still good, arguably better now some fats getting trimmed from it. There is always BUPA etc if you feel you need a superior service.
 
ST4 said:
You should look at what you write.
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If I said you never went to school I will show my arse in the co op window.
As you can see I said "Education was free, you should have taken advantage of it."

which is a completely different thing to "You never went to school", it's possible to have gone to school without taking advantage of the full range of learning experiences available, as your literacy attests.
 
ST4 said:
NHS is good, people consistently sing its praises on here. Quality wise it's still good, arguably better now some fats getting trimmed from it. There is always BUPA etc if you feel you need a superior service.
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So if the NHS is good why is there any need to sell off parts of it to the private sector?
You really should pick a line of reasoning and stick to it. It's difficult to keep track of your opinions.
 
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