The quality of just about anything has gone down.

mex said:
Even things like wood screws are now crap, the metal used are just not up to the job, either the heads just round off and if you are using an impact driver the shanks can and do snap.
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Buy decent screws then. I have only had that issue with the likes of the screws you get included with thinks. Try some Fischer screws or similar.
 
Sky said:
Having been involved in the electronics industry for best part of fifty years I would have to agree, but . . .

The problem is not with the components, it's mostly to do with cutting costs. The bean-counters and the public are to be blamed for this; the bean-counters because it's about maximising profit for the shareholders and it's the public's for demanding lower and lower prices. This means, that although quality components are still available, manufacturers' are not interested in building in longevity any more - there's no point.

The main reason for this is that the end user (consumer) of the current and last generation are so dreadfully wasteful and have far more disposable income. They change gadgets constantly because of fashion or the 'need' for the latest technology. When I started in the TV industry in the '70s we designed and built TV sets to last ten to fifteen years - they often lasted twice this. Now there is no point in designing items for longevity because they'll mostly be replaced long before they'll ever wear out.

Although China can (and do) produce amazing quality items, mostly they produce cheap and inferior products in order to dominate the market. Sadly, the west's demand for cheaper prices drives this on and makes it a lot worse than it should be - woe is us. However, that's a different story for another day . . .
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Pretty much agree, and I'd thrown in the media and the governemnt(s) with the bean counters and the public.

Governments should lead - not follow public opinion, and this can be painful and uncomfortable
The media should inform - not just post stories that the public want to consume.

It is all very well allowing the public to choose what it wants to do - but you'll quite likely end up with cheap machines and wasteful "me me!" societies across the world
 
robj20 said:
Buy decent screws then. I have only had that issue with the likes of the screws you get included with thinks. Try some Fischer screws or similar.
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I've been buying and using wood screws for nigh on 40yrs, they ain't what they used to be!
 
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Jelster said:
He has a standard model, but the components change with virtually every batch and there is absolutely no QA testing. The other thing I noticed is that the original we had to get CE tested was great, but now they're shipping them, the quality of component is completely different, to the extent where the EMC filtering stuff just isn't there any more!

These are really basic devices, if they were complicated somebody better than me would have to fix them!! They are made just to make money, sometimes there are naked wires less than 1cm from metalic parts!!
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It's not just the small stuff, and it's not a recent phenomenon. Some ten years ago and coming up to retirement I was asked to help out by doing a basic inspection job. It wasn't really within my normal line of work, but I was perfectly capable of doing it, at one of the UK's major ports.

They had recently taken delivery of a number of container cranes from China following the purchase of a number of others some years before. On looking at the welding on them the port manager asked our senior crane inspector to take a look at the welds. He was so concerned he arranged for the welds to be ultrasonically tested and quite a number were found to be, to a greater or lesser extent, below a satisfactory standard.

The Chinese company were asked to send welders to rectify the problem, which they did. However these were clearly not competent to weld to the standard required. The port manager then informed the manufacturer that unless fully competent welders were provided he would employ a UK welding company and send them the invoice. This resulted in very experienced welders being provided very quickly.

As far as this situation is concerned.

Quote "The latest lot were all dead out of the box, I checked the wiring and the live wasn't connected to the pin on the plug!! I ended up cutting off all the molded plugs and fitting 3 pin RCD plugs to them. The other thing I noticed is that the original we had to get CE tested was great, but now they're shipping them, the quality of component is completely different, to the extent where the EMC filtering stuff just isn't there any more!"

The solution is quite simple, but I don't believe any UK administration has the backbone to do it. Inform the Chinese government that due to the problems with their manufacturers low standards of quality control, all electrical items imported from China will be individually inspected before being released for sale and the cost of performing this work will added to the import duties already imposed.
 
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As far as I recall.....

When the Chinese company bought the MG Car company and started production for the global market the ones coming off the production line failed UK/EU crash test standards. They rectified that fairly quickly...though it beggars belief that as it was an already functioning car manufacturer, that they did not get it right in the first place.

I can only surmise that continued testing occurs with random testing a production car being brought into the market country.

But I do wonder if the same vehicles made for their home market are, as such, safety inferior.

PS the transfer of western manufacturing to china is littered with production QC issues. The problem is that to bring back such production is/would be prohibitively expensive.......but perhaps a necessity for some areas!

PPS as for losses of IP following the 'getting into bed' with Chinese companies is still an ongoing concern. One I recall a few years back was JLR starting a partnership production plant for Range Rover to supply the Chinese market and within months there was a another nearby car plant producing an exact clone branded Wind Rover. I can't recall the outcome but surmise JLR did not finish happy!
 
mex said:
I've been buying and using wood screws for nigh on 40yrs, they ain't what they used to be!
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Surely just means you need to try some different ones.
High quality stuff is still available. I think it's more that cheap rubbish is now widely available so it's diluted the market.

Not wood screws but machine screws for instance you can still get the highest NAS, MS or AN spec stuff, but it's much easier to get the cheap crap.

The last wood screws I got were for my stairs and going into joists and 4x4 solid oak, they even stood up fine to the impact driver so they're definitely available.
 
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All this Chinese crap. Even Covid is getting less effective...
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I think he's pointing out that difference between ISPs is the support they give the customer.

It's like gas or electricity: the basic product is the same, because it comes down the same tube, so the difference lies in the way the billing company reacts to your problems,

You might say that, as the basic product is the same, it ought to be run as a state monopoly - I couldn't possibly comment. :thinking:
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not the same product like gas or electricity - some of the 'mass market' isps like sky & bt have been proven to block some sites, and they sometimes 'lock' your router so you cannot tweak the settings - also what about ipv6 networks - i doubt bt will give you a /48 subnet for example
 
boliston said:
not the same product like gas or electricity
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Quite right.

Once your signals get to the servers, the company controlling your account can constrain them in various ways.
 
boliston said:
not the same product like gas or electricity - some of the 'mass market' isps like sky & bt have been proven to block some sites, and they sometimes 'lock' your router so you cannot tweak the settings - also what about ipv6 networks - i doubt bt will give you a /48 subnet for example
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Nothing stopping you using your own router.
I'm not up to date with ipv6 so not sure what the issue there is. I know that on mine I use /16 and it's now than enough for my needs.
 
robj20 said:
Nothing stopping you using your own router.
I'm not up to date with ipv6 so not sure what the issue there is. I know that on mine I use /16 and it's now than enough for my needs.
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an ipv6 /16 allocation would give an amazing 5,192,296,858,534,827,628,530,496,329,220,096 usable ip addresses which would not leave you short lol (this site has a handy calculator https://www.calculator.net/ip-subnet-calculator.html )
 
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LCPete said:
A

Agree although general household items are cheap and cheerful and often low quality it’s perfectly possible to buy decent quality nowadays
My old MacBook Pro is also 2013 and works perfectly
Cars nowadays are much better quality than they used to be too
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Happily using my MacBook Air 11 2015, my iPhone X, 2009 Dodge, and Kodak dcs (2003)….

yes I know the iPhone is not that old but by the looks I’m given from people in my groups… it is! MacBook Air is complimented by an M1 pro.. but the air is happily used if my M1 is flat or too far away!

I’ve also got a 2009 MacBook somewhere.. that works!
 
boliston said:
an ipv6 /16 allocation would give an amazing 5,192,296,858,534,827,628,530,496,329,220,096 usable ip addresses which would not leave you short lol (this site has a handy calculator https://www.calculator.net/ip-subnet-calculator.html )
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I meant ip4. 10.10.0.0. I've split it up so 10.10.1.0 is my main network with full access to everything.
10.10.2.0 is my IOT network with selected access. And 10.10.3.0 is my guest network with only internet access. I haven't been concerned with ipv6 yet.
 
It’s been a race to the bottom for a long time. Companies want to make products cheaper to maximise profit, consumers don’t want to pay the price for quality products.

Its a simple equation.
 
wibbly said:
It’s been a race to the bottom for a long time. Companies want to make products cheaper to maximise profit, consumers don’t want to pay the price for quality products.

Its a simple equation.
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Not so, maybe I'm in a minority here, but I would gladly pay that bit extra if I knew the quality of the goods was exceptional, but in most cases it's not......
 
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I think I may have wandered into a parallel dimension here.

The quality of most mechanical and electronic goods that I've purchased over the last 20 years has been at least as high as those I purchased previously, as well as the cost being, in most cases, lower.
 
The issue of modern quality on items, especially electrical good is ringing true with us at the moment.

We bought a new fridge freezer in 2014. This last 6 months ish, food has been coming out of the fridge compartment frozen. We checked and cleaned the drain, cleaned behind it, all the usual things. A week later, fresh food was still coming out frozen. So we got in touch with the manufacturer, they said it would be either the thermostat or one of 2 circuit boards. This after only 7 years of use.:thinking: When we said this to the manufacturer, they said a fridge /freezer would have a lifespan of "around 8 years". :oops: :$

It wasn't cheap either.

I couldn't help think though, way back in the 70s, my parents bought an Electra branded fridge, I would've been about 8 years old. It was still working well into the noughties, I forget when it actually got replaced but it would've been around 2003 and even then, it was still keeping fresh food cold, it was replaced as part of a kitchen upgrade.

In 1992, I bought a brand new Kenwood HiFi. It wasn't a chipboard special, it was reminiscent of Kenwood's radio ham gear, made with metal cases and relays that you could hear working. Only recently has it stopped working, more to do with loft storage I think than actually wear and tear. It's a simple fix too.

A quite recently purchased Sony died after 3 years of light use.

I have a Bush radio cassette player, still working and it's over 40 years old.

I wonder how much of modern goods failing and quality is to do with them now having to be eco friendly and recyclable, or is it just massed production that is responsible and we've become a throw away society? Either way, I'm sure it suits the manufacturers as they are turning goods over for replacement , usually when out of warranty, every 8 years or so, rather than the 30-40 years old school products (mostly) seemed to last.

Back to our fridge freezer. The cost of parts to fix what 'maybe' the problem is potentially close to half of what we paid for it in the first place, so now where in the process of buying a new one, as well as paying the extra (which I don't grudge) to get our 'old' one recycled properly.

I see a similar thread from me in roughly 8 years time. :D
 
Nod said:
All this Chinese crap. Even Covid is getting less effective...
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Yes, when I see "Made in PRC" I read that abbreviation as People's Republic of Crap
 
mex said:
Not so, maybe I'm in a minority here, but I would gladly pay that bit extra if I knew the quality of the goods was exceptional, but in most cases it's not......
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I think the issue is that it is no longer a 'bit' extra for quality.

Good quality items are still available for just about anything. But now we have cheap and affordable alternatives in their masses, which most people seem to be more than happy with. So if you want a good quality item these days you are not just paying for a better product, but a lot of the time you are also paying more again for a niche product. It's a double whammy.
 
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The claims made in this thread are beginning to remind me of this article...

https://marleyk.SPAM/how-social-media-encourages-groupthink-e4b4b2f2a5f8
 
@dale mentioned amateur radio gear. After returning to the hobby after 20 years away, I am staggered by how cheap some of the stuff is, and the quality is excellent. The Chinese have got in on the act and make some really, really cheap stuff, which has caused the main 3 Japanese manufacturers to wake. up. My HF radio (Short Wave) was about £650. Even when I was in the business I couldn't get a similar radio for that sort of money, even then... I have a Chinese handheld (walkie talkie type) which was £25. That would have been a minimum of £200.00. The quality isn't as good as the Japanese stuff, but it's very lightweight and does what I need it for.

If you look at the motor industry, we have always believed that the Germans & maybe the Japanese made the best cars (other than the luxury brands) but stuff from Kia and Hyundi is getting there. We have a Kia dealer in our little town, so they're very popular. Having been in a few I'm impressed with the quality. I think that the mainstream car manufacturers have realised this, and their prices are not quite as high as they once were (Everyone's had a BMW, right?)...
 
Jelster said:
@dale mentioned amateur radio gear. After returning to the hobby after 20 years away, I am staggered by how cheap some of the stuff is, and the quality is excellent. The Chinese have got in on the act and make some really, really cheap stuff, which has caused the main 3 Japanese manufacturers to wake. up. My HF radio (Short Wave) was about £650. Even when I was in the business I couldn't get a similar radio for that sort of money, even then... I have a Chinese handheld (walkie talkie type) which was £25. That would have been a minimum of £200.00. The quality isn't as good as the Japanese stuff, but it's very lightweight and does what I need it for.

If you look at the motor industry, we have always believed that the Germans & maybe the Japanese made the best cars (other than the luxury brands) but stuff from Kia and Hyundi is getting there. We have a Kia dealer in our little town, so they're very popular. Having been in a few I'm impressed with the quality. I think that the mainstream car manufacturers have realised this, and their prices are not quite as high as they once were (Everyone's had a BMW, right?)...
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I never got qualified to operate amatuer radio but a friend of mine did. Most of his gear was Kenwood but some was Yaesu? He had a room dedicated to the hobby, I remember the smell and the warmth of the valves heating up etc. His main radio was a Kenwood, I forget the model but I was taken by the quality of it and it prompted me to go out and by my HiFi.
 
Jelster said:
but stuff from Kia and Hyundi is getting there. We have a Kia dealer in our little town, so they're very popular. Having been in a few I'm impressed with the quality. I think that the mainstream car manufacturers have realised this, and their prices are not quite as high as they once were (Everyone's had a BMW, right?)...
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I'm on my second Hyundai. It's now six years old and the most serious fault (indeed the only fault) it's suffered was that the navigation went doolally after an update. The dealership sorted it out with no fuss. I paid far less for it than I would have paid for a comparable European or Japanese car.
 
Dale. said:
but some was Yaesu?
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When I bought a Lowe communications receiver the seller bundled a Yaesu active arial set. It was very pretty but I didn't really have a use for it, so I donated it to a charity that specialised in refurbishing and selling on radio equipment...

Yaesu active arial set.JPG
 
Dale. said:
I never got qualified to operate amatuer radio but a friend of mine did. Most of his gear was Kenwood but some was Yaesu? He had a room dedicated to the hobby, I remember the smell and the warmth of the valves heating up etc. His main radio was a Kenwood, I forget the model but I was taken by the quality of it and it prompted me to go out and by my HiFi.
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Most of my kit is Yaesu. Had a couple of Kewoods, but I'm a Yaesu man at heart. My little station does me well...
 

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mex said:
Even things like wood screws are now crap, the metal used are just not up to the job, either the heads just round off and if you are using an impact driver the shanks can and do snap.
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Plenty of professional woodworkers would never consider using an impact driver on wood screws. They are basically not designed for it. Go back 20 years and nobody used an impact driver on wood.
 
I've done radio, about 14-15 years ago I did a stint as a DJ on local Hospital Radio, only reason I left in April 2011 was because my other job was promising something better, which didn't happen due to lack of demand for the service.
 
munch said:
Plenty of professional woodworkers would never consider using an impact driver on wood screws. They are basically not designed for it. Go back 20 years and nobody used an impact driver on wood.
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To be honest, I've not yet come across too many purist chippies. Impact drivers are not designed for what? Go back 20 years and you probably weren't using a DSLR.
 
Never used mine for any sort of woodwork!
 
I always thought that impact drivers were for removing machine screws which refused to come out.
 
Jelster said:
I always thought that impact drivers were for removing machine screws which refused to come out.
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Me too......... somewhere I have one that last saw the light of day a goodly number of decades ago :thinking:
 
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