The quality of just about anything has gone down.

mex

mex

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After spending a small fortune on a new kitchen 2 1/2 years ago, we have experienced nothing but trouble with just about all the electrical goods everything fitted in it.
Firstly the built-in oven, we were sold a Zanussi oven with all the bells and whistles, it didn't work out of the box and was replaced within days, well, that one is just out of guarantee and guess what....
Then the built-in Bosch microwave/grill, needed a new circuit board after 6 mths.
The Bosch dishwasher is now on the bloody blink.
The under sill LED lights no longer work, but are now out of guarantee

We bought replacement lights for the living room and dining room, both came with eco-friendly bulbs that cost £15 each, the bulbs should last 10 years....1 year later and they are going to returned later this week.

I bought an Apple MBP 2 machines had to be returned and replaced.

Now either I am bloody unlucky or the way these things are now manufactured is done on the cheap with inferior components.

RANT OVER.
 
I've been saying this for years :D

It is very difficult to buy quality these days and the price often doesn't give a clue either as just sometimes the cheaper option lasts just as long or even longer than the more expensive option. Brand names often mean nothing these days either.

Back when I worked for manufacturers it was difficult to impossible to get people making decisions to care and go the extra mile for quality and durability and often components were just a paperwork exercise, and by that I mean that the paperwork and test results and technical guff coming from some parts of the world or companies just wasn't worth the paper or screen time but no one cares.
 
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Craig1912 said:
I’d be checking your electrical circuitry and supply.
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A well designed and made thing should be able to cope with just about anything the mains throws at it or at least protect itself from major adorations.
 
Having been involved in the electronics industry for best part of fifty years I would have to agree, but . . .

The problem is not with the components, it's mostly to do with cutting costs. The bean-counters and the public are to be blamed for this; the bean-counters because it's about maximising profit for the shareholders and it's the public's for demanding lower and lower prices. This means, that although quality components are still available, manufacturers' are not interested in building in longevity any more - there's no point.

The main reason for this is that the end user (consumer) of the current and last generation are so dreadfully wasteful and have far more disposable income. They change gadgets constantly because of fashion or the 'need' for the latest technology. When I started in the TV industry in the '70s we designed and built TV sets to last ten to fifteen years - they often lasted twice this. Now there is no point in designing items for longevity because they'll mostly be replaced long before they'll ever wear out.

Although China can (and do) produce amazing quality items, mostly they produce cheap and inferior products in order to dominate the market. Sadly, the west's demand for cheaper prices drives this on and makes it a lot worse than it should be - woe is us. However, that's a different story for another day . . .
 
Sky said:
Now there is no point in designing items for longevity because they'll mostly be replaced long before they'll ever wear out.
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...but isn't that simply because our technology is advancing so quickly? It's not always economic to buy (or even build) a device to last for twenty years when a new advance might render it obsolete in five.
 
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Craig1912 said:
I’d be checking your electrical circuitry and supply.ready looked at
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That was done before and after the kitchen ( my brother in law is sparky).
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
...but isn't that simply because our technology is advancing so quickly? It's not always economic to buy (or even build) a device to last for twenty years when a new advance might render it obsolete in five.
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Of course there's that argument - it's always been there. However, years ago people weren't driven by the 'need' to have the latest tech. and they certainly didn't have the money for regular replacements. The majority of people bought things like TVs, washing machines etc. for longevity because it equalled value for money.
 
Mainly because everyone wants everything cheap these days.
Quality control, materials and workmanship will inevitably suffer in the race to make it super affordable.
 
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Sky said:
However, years ago people weren't driven by the 'need' to have the latest tech. and they certainly didn't have the money for regular replacements.
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I think that you're at least partially wrong there. I remember how busy the electrical stores were sixty years ago and there were busy radio and television shops wherever I went.
 
I think the answer is yes and no. A lot of components will actually now last a long time. But I also think we as consumers generally don't really want longevity. we have had our main TV for over 8 years now and have no plans to replace it. In that time several of our friends have replaced their TV to get one that is more "smarter." Just look at the need to have the latest smartphone. Why build in longevity when it will be replaced in 24 months.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I remember how busy the electrical stores were sixty years ago and there were busy radio and television shops wherever I went.
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Of course they were busy, I never said they weren't. However, the difference between who was buying then and who is buying now is completely different. Young people never had the money that they do today.

A Bush 22" colour TV in 1970 cost £289.00 - that's £3,300.00 in today's money. Now you can buy a 22" colour TV for around £100.00.

The average wage was less than £40.00 in 1975 - allowing for inflation, that's £230.00 in today's money, but the average wage today is over £500.00*

*Source
 
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Recently I've been doing some work for a local company that buys fogging machines from China. He has a standard model, but the components change with virtually every batch and there is absolutely no QA testing. The latest lot were all dead out of the box, I checked the wiring and the live wasn't connected to the pin on the plug!! I ended up cutting off all the molded plugs and fitting 3 pin RCD plugs to them. The other thing I noticed is that the original we had to get CE tested was great, but now they're shipping them, the quality of component is completely different, to the extent where the EMC filtering stuff just isn't there any more!

These are really basic devices, if they were complicated somebody better than me would have to fix them!! They are made just to make money, sometimes there are naked wires less than 1cm from metalic parts!!
 
Designed by accountants for minimum cost and maximum prophet
 
It's almost impossible to buy anything these days that wasn't made by 5 year olds in a Chinese sweat shop! :lol:
 
Jelster said:
Recently I've been doing some work for a local company that buys fogging machines from China. He has a standard model, but the components change with virtually every batch and there is absolutely no QA testing. The latest lot were all dead out of the box, I checked the wiring and the live wasn't connected to the pin on the plug!! I ended up cutting off all the molded plugs and fitting 3 pin RCD plugs to them. The other thing I noticed is that the original we had to get CE tested was great, but now they're shipping them, the quality of component is completely different, to the extent where the EMC filtering stuff just isn't there any more!

These are really basic devices, if they were complicated somebody better than me would have to fix them!! They are made just to make money, sometimes there are naked wires less than 1cm from metalic parts!!
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This has been going on for a while from China. Make the samples perfect and then when you order some containers make them as cheap as possible.
The client now has all these sub standard items, paid for up front, and realistically non -returnable to the other side of the world.
 
We live in a disposable society where price is the king. The price of most household goods is much lower now in real terms but quality has suffered. When our white goods are out of guarantee, if I cannot repair them, they are replaced. I have given up buying top of the range goods as their lifespan appears to be no better and the extra features are generally not essential. The so called top brands are often no better than the cheaper ones.

What annoys me is that if you want quality and are prepared to pay a reasonable price, there is often no such choice unless you pay a very hefty premium.
 
We forget how complex things are nowadays. My mums washing machine in the 60s had a massive switch that had two positions that said “heat” and “wash”. It lasted for donkeys years until the heating element finally gave up the ghost. Now everything is microprocessor controlled so there’s far more to go wrong.
 
Sky said:
Having been involved in the electronics industry for best part of fifty years I would have to agree, but . . .

The problem is not with the components, it's mostly to do with cutting costs. The bean-counters and the public are to be blamed for this; the bean-counters because it's about maximising profit for the shareholders and it's the public's for demanding lower and lower prices. This means, that although quality components are still available, manufacturers' are not interested in building in longevity any more - there's no point.

The main reason for this is that the end user (consumer) of the current and last generation are so dreadfully wasteful and have far more disposable income. They change gadgets constantly because of fashion or the 'need' for the latest technology. When I started in the TV industry in the '70s we designed and built TV sets to last ten to fifteen years - they often lasted twice this. Now there is no point in designing items for longevity because they'll mostly be replaced long before they'll ever wear out.

Although China can (and do) produce amazing quality items, mostly they produce cheap and inferior products in order to dominate the market. Sadly, the west's demand for cheaper prices drives this on and makes it a lot worse than it should be - woe is us. However, that's a different story for another day . . .
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I can't entirely blame the public for poor quality as some people are always willing to pay a premium for better quality and often quality is associated with price and/or a brand name but it's not always possible to link price or brand name to quality now and yes sometimes the problem is the components. I could list companies who've used crap components which have made their products unreliable. Granted my experience ended years ago when I got out but to say components aren't an issue is simply and patently not true because they are and components were an issue all of my working life from when I first got in until the day I got out. Some components were never on the list for some companies and avoiding them was even specified in contracts.

Having worked with Chinese companies I have two comments, firstly they can make products that'll stand comparison to anything else available and secondly some will take a flyer and just lie to your face and falsify anything and everything to shut you up. I've never quite seen that level of dishonesty from a British company although I have seen British companies sail close to the wind in other ways and I have had dreadful experiences with American and French companies so it's deffo not just a Chinese thing.
 
Jelster said:
Recently I've been doing some work for a local company that buys fogging machines from China. He has a standard model, but the components change with virtually every batch and there is absolutely no QA testing. The latest lot were all dead out of the box, I checked the wiring and the live wasn't connected to the pin on the plug!! I ended up cutting off all the molded plugs and fitting 3 pin RCD plugs to them. The other thing I noticed is that the original we had to get CE tested was great, but now they're shipping them, the quality of component is completely different, to the extent where the EMC filtering stuff just isn't there any more!

These are really basic devices, if they were complicated somebody better than me would have to fix them!! They are made just to make money, sometimes there are naked wires less than 1cm from metalic parts!!
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Yup.
 
boogie man said:
Now everything is microprocessor controlled so there’s far more to go wrong.
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That's not quite true. Modern electronics are generally more reliable than comparable mechanical assemblies.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
That's not quite true. Modern electronics are generally more reliable than comparable mechanical assemblies.
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Yup.

In the olden days some stuff had a multi function switch, good getting another one of those. I have electronic stuff that's 40 years old that still works but to be fair some of it has needed attention due to dry caps and joints etc but it's been economic to get it going and keep it going.

I am worried about some stuff which was made at the time RoHS came in as some of the new solder was if not rubbish then significantly different and people didn't know how to best set up production equipment to cope with it. I thought at the time that this would hit longevity.
 
woof woof said:
Yup.

In the olden days some stuff had a multi function switch, good getting another one of those. I have electronic stuff that's 40 years old that still works but to be fair some of it has needed attention due to dry caps and joints etc but it's been economic to get it going and keep it going.

I am worried about some stuff which was made at the time RoHS came in as some of the new solder was if not rubbish then significantly different and people didn't know how to best set up production equipment to cope with it. I thought at the time that this would hit longevity.
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Thank god where I with we don't have to be RoHS, still using good old leaded solder. So much easier to get reliable joints.
 
woof woof said:
I have electronic stuff that's 40 years old that still works
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The thing I've noticed is the improvement of power supply technology. No more huge transformers to drop on your feet! :naughty:
 
Generally things are not built to last, as others have said, tech and fashion changes to quickly so many things are not designed to go on for years. Some things are though and this comes at a. cost, which many people don't want to do as they are obsessed by price. My dad told me something that sticks with me now, "buy cheap, buy twice".

When we last moved just over 15 years ago, we bought a lot of new stuff, not super expensive but bought quality. Sony 40" still working (now in sons room), Jamie pans (got a lot of use) only went a few months ago, Gobal knives still going strong, Magimix (doesn't get much use), even the Fridge freezer (think Bosch) was fine after 14 years but just wanted a bigger one, our last washing machine (also Bosch) lasted a while despite being used at least once a day it felt like, just wanted to get a new one. My old MacBook is 2013 ands aside from a battery that needs changing is fine (lots of use).

Some of this comes down to care of items too.
 
A
cambsno said:
Generally things are not built to last, as others have said, tech and fashion changes to quickly so many things are not designed to go on for years. Some things are though and this comes at a. cost, which many people don't want to do as they are obsessed by price. My dad told me something that sticks with me now, "buy cheap, buy twice".

When we last moved just over 15 years ago, we bought a lot of new stuff, not super expensive but bought quality. Sony 40" still working (now in sons room), Jamie pans (got a lot of use) only went a few months ago, Gobal knives still going strong, Magimix (doesn't get much use), even the Fridge freezer (think Bosch) was fine after 14 years but just wanted a bigger one, our last washing machine (also Bosch) lasted a while despite being used at least once a day it felt like, just wanted to get a new one. My old MacBook is 2013 ands aside from a battery that needs changing is fine (lots of use).

Some of this comes down to care of items too.
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Agree although general household items are cheap and cheerful and often low quality it’s perfectly possible to buy decent quality nowadays
My old MacBook Pro is also 2013 and works perfectly
Cars nowadays are much better quality than they used to be too
 
woof woof said:
I can't entirely blame the public for poor quality as some people are always willing to pay a premium for better quality
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I'm not so sure. Look at the ISP market, not many willing to move away from the poundshop providers like BT, Virgin, TalkTalk etc etc that compete on price and go to a quality provider that costs more instead. Obviously it's not helped by know-nothings on forums / social media that declare that every ISP on the Openreach network is the same, when the reality is that the only thing that is the same is the length of copper from the house to the green box, and all that affects is the theoretical maximum bandwidth the line will support.
 
LCPete said:
My old MacBook Pro is also 2013 and works perfectly
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I'm still running a 2006 15" MacBook Pro, which is not the oldest operational computer I have. My 1999 Vaio Picturebook still boots, as does the Omnibook 425 that I bought in 1995 (although TBH I can only run it via the power adapter - the battery circuit seems to have given up the ghost).

True enough: there's not a lot I can do with these but at least they're not landfill!

HP Omnibook 425 computer.JPG
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I'm still running a 2006 15" MacBook Pro, which is not the oldest operational computer I have. My 1999 Vaio Picturebook still boots, as does the Omnibook 425 that I bought in 1995 (although TBH I can only run it via the power adapter - the battery circuit seems to have given up the ghost).

True enough: there's not a lot I can do with these but at least they're not landfill!

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I recall a few years back there were online projects to turn laptops into 'digital picture frames'......I never tried but some looked quite effective.
 
I bought my Sony Vaio 13" in 2010 and I've upgraded it with an SSD and another 4GB of RAM in the last couple of years. It runs flawlessly and is more than sufficient for anything I want to do with a computer. I've no intention of replacing it unless it becomes absolutely necessary.
 
onomatopoeia said:
I'm not so sure. Look at the ISP market, not many willing to move away from the poundshop providers like BT, Virgin, TalkTalk etc etc that compete on price and go to a quality provider that costs more instead. Obviously it's not helped by know-nothings on forums / social media that declare that every ISP on the Openreach network is the same, when the reality is that the only thing that is the same is the length of copper from the house to the green box, and all that affects is the theoretical maximum bandwidth the line will support.
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I've been with BT and Talk Talk, and Virgin Mobile, I got rid of VM about 4 years ago because their Indian call centre was doing my head in, on reflection I went with Three and their call centre was even worse.
 
onomatopoeia said:
I'm not so sure. Look at the ISP market, not many willing to move away from the poundshop providers like BT, Virgin, TalkTalk etc etc that compete on price and go to a quality provider that costs more instead. Obviously it's not helped by know-nothings on forums / social media that declare that every ISP on the Openreach network is the same, when the reality is that the only thing that is the same is the length of copper from the house to the green box, and all that affects is the theoretical maximum bandwidth the line will support.
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Please expand.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
The thing I've noticed is the improvement of power supply technology. No more huge transformers to drop on your feet! :naughty:
Click to expand...

But the downside of that is that so many of these SM PSU's generate so much electrical noise. My amateur radio stuff is all old school transformers, and this time of year, the noise level on short wave is at a point where it's not worth turning the radio on. Most of it generated from crappy power supplies to noisey LED lights, although cheap phone chargers are just as bad.

I'm just about to buy a 1980's valve based radio that's had new tubes fitted. The only issues with it is that some of the newer band allocations aren't on it, and it weighs about 4 times of my solid state stuff, but they're a joy to use...
 
most modern expensive brands use the same chinese s***e components you're best buying cheap and just replacing when you need.
i bought a beko oven about 5 years ago and just replaced the element but it cost £250 so hey ho.
 
Mr Bump said:
most modern expensive brands use the same chinese s***e components you're best buying cheap and just replacing when you need.
i bought a beko oven about 5 years ago and just replaced the element but it cost £250 so hey ho.
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For someone who spots on about the evil of cars, not the most environmentally friendly view there.
 
cambsno said:
For someone who spots on about the evil of cars, not the most environmentally friendly view there.
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its just the raw truth. overpriced cars do the same thing as budget cars they just surround the pretentious tosser in leather and badges.
 
Even things like wood screws are now crap, the metal used are just not up to the job, either the heads just round off and if you are using an impact driver the shanks can and do snap.
 
I always wipe wood screws over a candle stub to lubricate them as I screw them in. Only ever used an impact driver to undo stubborn fasteners.
 
Brentor said:
Please expand.
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I think he's pointing out that difference between ISPs is the support they give the customer.

It's like gas or electricity: the basic product is the same, because it comes down the same tube, so the difference lies in the way the billing company reacts to your problems,

You might say that, as the basic product is the same, it ought to be run as a state monopoly - I couldn't possibly comment. :thinking:
 
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