The price of life.

[mex]

Just watching BBC1's 'One show', it is unbeleivable to think that in todays day and age people are having to up sticks and move home to a different part of the UK in order to receive life saving cancer drugs. I fully understand that we as a country are not all that flush, but the government are happy to pay £800 000 for a single cruise missile, yet life saving treatment can get put on the back burner. Whats all that about?

 

[akr]

I could not agree more.

 

[BillN_33]

Totally agree, plus many other similar issues

we seem to live in two different world …….. common sense and Westminster

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Maybe an £800k missile can kill a lot of people and the patient will just die by himself? If you are in government / army this suddenly starts to make sense maybe

 

[dejongj]

Considering they don't have to move to another country it is hardly a Westminster issue isn't it. It's your local government and trust doing this nonsense.

 

[cambsno]

It applies to every country in the world, India have space program's and millions in poverty (real poverty as opposed to what people define as poverty in the uk), you have North Korea and most African countries letting people starve while buying cars and arms... Not just a UK issue.

The NHS may not be perfect, but overall it is better than most countries have, the care various members of my family have had at addenbrookes has been excellent.

But does the OP issue relate to anything in particular, didn't see program. If there is a drug that costs £500k say and will only prolong someone's life for a couple of months is that really the best use of money?

 

[boyfalldown]

If there is a drug that costs £500k say and will only prolong someone's life for a couple of months is that really the best use of money?

maybe you could point to a drug where a course of treatment costs £500k?. No I'm guessing not. The couple of months thing is a silly argument too and represents the entire reason there will never be a 'cure for cancer'

 

[cambsno]

Was simply playing devils advocate. Both my grand parents were denied some treatment before they died as it would have had minimal impact and would not have added much more time. Would hVe guessed cost and age and health are all factors.

 

[Bernie174]

This isn't down the Government, it's down to NHS Wales. It was their decision not to fund treatment, the woman got around it by registering with a GP in London claiming she lived with her daughter who had a house there.

NHS England, did have the money, so she got her treatment.

Funding for the NHS is huge, and a great deal of it is wasted, while that happens funding for treatment will never match demand.
For example, I broke my should 12 years ago. The Doctor at the Hospital said, OK, we'll get you in and operate, to which I said, hang on, what happens if I don't have it operated on? (Big brave ex Policeman who is terrified of Hospitals!). Oh said the Quack, it will just heal up on it's own. So guess what, I let it heal up,cost to the NHS? Nothing, apart from the cost of a prescription for volterol, so probably not much more than what I paid.

Cost if I'd had it? God only knows but it was considered major surgery, lasting around 2 hours, plus around a week in Hospital and physio and pain relief drugs, antibiotics etc.

 

[mex]

The article was about a lady, I will be polite and say, a gracious lady, living not all that far from me in Cardiff, the NHS in Wales have decided that her treatment for terminal cervical cancer is not financially viable. She and her husband have now upped sticks and moved to London (?) as the NHS in England are prepared to treat her with the particular drug that will increase her life expectancy. It really is sickening to see that the NHS has become a secular institution where your life saving treatment is dependant upon where you live...errrrr...... N A T I O N A L ......health service, I wonder, if the head of NHS Wales' wife/husband was ( hopefully not) struck down with a terminal disease would they have to move? or would they be treated with the required drugs either locally or more than likely treated privately?

The treatment offered by the ground staff is absolutely fantastic, its the grey suits upstairs that need their testicles squeezed.

 

[robhooley167]

maybe you could point to a drug where a course of treatment costs £500k?. No I'm guessing not. The couple of months thing is a silly argument too and represents the entire reason there will never be a 'cure for cancer'

The 500K figure is a little steep but the rest of the argument regarding only extending life for a few months is legitimate.

£90k for 15 months http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ews/experts-hail-breast-cancer-wonder-7847292

$28k per dose http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10558860967644900 . This was dropped by the NHS as the cost per year of life extension was too high.

Will find you a few more examples this evening.

 

[boyfalldown]

The 500K figure is a little steep but the rest of the argument regarding only extending life for a few months is legitimate.

£90k for 15 months http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ews/experts-hail-breast-cancer-wonder-7847292

$28k per dose http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10558860967644900 . This was dropped by the NHS as the cost per year of life extension was too high.

Will find you a few more examples this evening.

Except the extension of a few months is a completely twisted stat. Yes, you may extend life by a couple of months. You could also view it as you've increased that person (who sadly is going to die anyway) life by 2 or 3 times remaining. That's actually a pretty phenomenal achievement and one you can build on for the future. Rather then simply dismissing it. But your stats seem to have missed this.

No need to find more examples, I know how much treatments cost. I just think it's stupid to dismiss on cost alone.

 

[mex]

The 500K figure is a little steep but the rest of the argument regarding only extending life for a few months is legitimate.

£90k for 15 months http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ews/experts-hail-breast-cancer-wonder-7847292

$28k per dose http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB10558860967644900 . This was dropped by the NHS as the cost per year of life extension was too high.

Will find you a few more examples this evening.

In my OP... £800 000 for one poxy missile compared to £90 000 for 15 months life ( would your arguement be the same if you needed that drug?) sit back and have a think about how much that is costing you on a daily basis in futile conflicts we get ourselves involved in, then have a think about who owns or has shares in those missile building companies.

 

[onomatopoeia]

then have a think about who owns or has shares in those missile building companies.

An awful lot are held in pension funds, including by local authorities for this reason. Is this significant?

 

[dejongj]

In my OP... £800 000 for one poxy missile compared to £90 000 for 15 months life ( would your arguement be the same if you needed that drug?) sit back and have a think about how much that is costing you on a daily basis in futile conflicts we get ourselves involved in, then have a think about who owns or has shares in those missile building companies.

It is not really the point though. It is a local trust decision, it is not the government forcing them either way. I think it is a shambles for the so called national health service. There is very little national about it. And not just on a country level within the UK, the differences are there on a trust level.

I think this whole situation of devolved powers is wasteful of our money. Centralised is much better, more efficient, but emotive local power trips stand in its way.

 

[H2O]

Just watching BBC1's 'One show', it is unbeleivable to think that in todays day and age people are having to up sticks and move home to a different part of the UK in order to receive life saving cancer drugs.

Didn't see the one show but a friend of mine has exactly this issue. The specialist hospital is in England and the Welsh NHS are refusing to pay.

It seems to me that this is at least in part caused by devolution. There are too many different people in charge prioritising their budgets in different ways.

For example, I really wish we didn't have free prescriptions for all here in Wales.. It's far to wastefull. (People get "free" medication that they could buy for pence in Tesco)

 

[mex]

An awful lot are held in pension funds, including by local authorities for this reason. Is this significant?

The significance being, the very people ordering the ordnance are the people profiting from it.

 

[viv1969]

Pharmaceutical companies should be brought to book too. The price per unit of a drug sold to the NHS is mind bogglingly more the the price per unit sold to healthcare bodies internationally.

N.I.C.E. are also the scourge if many chronically sick people.

 

[Bernie174]

The significance being, the very people ordering the ordnance are the people profiting from it.

Not really. Paveway kits are made in the US. The bombs themselves could have been around for years gathering dust in a bomb dump somewhere.
As I recall BAE make Brimstones, and they are a wholly private business, so I can't see who is ordering them (HMG) and how that is connected to the shareholders.

We could spend every penny the UK makes on the NHS, it would still be grossly inefficient, and would want more. But the UK isn't a life support system for the health service, and even if it was, it and it's host, the UK still need to be defended.

 

[chadders]

Health is a devolved power in Wales. Responsibility for allocating the budget is the sole responsibility of the Welsh Assembly.

 

[dejongj]

Pharmaceutical companies should be brought to book too. The price per unit of a drug sold to the NHS is mind bogglingly more the the price per unit sold to healthcare bodies internationally.

N.I.C.E. are also the scourge if many chronically sick people.

Now is that the fault of the Pharma industry or highlighting the inefficiency and bureaucracy the NHS is placing on its suppliers...There is a reason for varying price structures...And government policy, albeit in this case local trusts, have a lot to answer for. Especially on mainland Europe the 'grey' import from other member states can have a detrimental impact on your own sales figures....Yup many years in that industry on an international level, I've seen it and are still wearing the tee....Especially when moving into health economics it never ceased to amaze me how short sighted governments and trusts can be where they rather halt treatment due to in-year budgetary constraints and then basically have to spend more next year to make up for the break....It is madness...

 

[archangel]

In northern Ireland ......devolved health care.......with free prescriptions.....so every sick person and their dog are requesting prescriptions for every silly cough etc therefore taking away essential money for the up keep of other medical treatment.

 

[viv1969]

Now is that the fault of the Pharma industry or highlighting the inefficiency and bureaucracy the NHS is placing on its suppliers...There is a reason for varying price structures...And government policy, albeit in this case local trusts, have a lot to answer for. Especially on mainland Europe the 'grey' import from other member states can have a detrimental impact on your own sales figures....Yup many years in that industry on an international level, I've seen it and are still wearing the tee....Especially when moving into health economics it never ceased to amaze me how short sighted governments and trusts can be where they rather halt treatment due to in-year budgetary constraints and then basically have to spend more next year to make up for the break....It is madness...

I only know the unit prices I see daily through my work.

 

[dejongj]

I only know the unit prices I see daily through my work.

And I see the costs, the investments, the international and global operations etc....A lot of great things about the NHS don't get me wrong, however the local differences, the lack of commercial awareness, the constant desire to do things differently don't help keeping prices down...