The police watchdog is to investigate an alleged cover up...

Cobra

Cobra

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...of child sex abuse claims against the former prime minister Edward Heath.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...hild-abuse-investigation-police-watchdog-ipcc

I heard this on the radio earlier and thought I'd miss-heard, but nope its there.

Two clear "suspicions", one against the police one against an ex-prime minister.
Where will it end? how much of this is band wagon jumping?
Was a substantial amount of famous people really into child abuse?
 
Allegedly from an 'Ex-Senior Police Officer" regarding a historical failure to investigate a complaint against Edward Heath ... so not really a 'band-wagon' candidate.
 
gramps said:
Allegedly from an 'Ex-Senior Police Officer" regarding a historical failure to investigate a complaint against Edward Heath ... so not really a 'band-wagon' candidate.
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True enough,
,the band wagon comment was supposed to have been a general per se comment, not
linked to this case, badly worded on my part ;)
 
I heard it on the news too.
One has to assume there may be some pretty compelling evidence.
Or not.
Pretty hard to defend yourself once you're dead.
 
viv1969 said:
Pretty hard to defend yourself once you're dead.
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And that's the problem isn't it? the mud has been slung, some will stick, no matter what :(
 
Cobra said:
And that's the problem isn't it? the mud has been slung, some will stick, no matter what :(
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Exactly.
How often do you hear a Cliff Richard track on the radio now? And that investigation came to nought.
 
viv1969 said:
Exactly.
How often do you hear a Cliff Richard track on the radio now? And that investigation came to nought.
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This is very true!
Although I must admit that I'm not exactly gutted about it ;)
 
BRASH said:
That could only be a good thing because he's s***e.
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Yes dear....but if it was, say, Suggs you'd be grumbling a different line.
The singer is irrelevant. The point is the effect of the mere hint of an allegation and you know it.
 
viv1969 said:
Exactly.
How often do you hear a Cliff Richard track on the radio now? And that investigation came to nought.
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Well I suppose it's Congratulations and Celebrations then, never very keen on his music :rolleyes:
 
jonbeeza said:
Well I suppose it's Congratulations and Celebrations then, never very keen on his music :rolleyes:
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Another one missing the point by a country mile!
 
viv1969 said:
Another one missing the point by a country mile!
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They'll get bored with the puns sooner or later.
( Just like Mistletoe & wine at Christmas :D )
 
viv1969 said:
Yes dear....but if it was, say, Suggs you'd be grumbling a different line.
The singer is irrelevant. The point is the effect of the mere hint of an allegation and you know it.
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What makes you think I'm a Madness fan?
 
viv1969 said:
Another one missing the point by a country mile!
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No I am not, I know it was a very serious issue what he was accused of etc etc. Just I am being a bit silly that's all, and saying I am simply not keen on his music :)
 
I absolutely support the principle that any individual accused of anything no matter how abhorrent must be seen and treated as innocent until proven guilty.

Perhaps the more worrying aspect of the allegations against Heath is the claim by a retired senior police officer who alleges that claims made in the 1990s were not followed up. Is this the beginning of yet another establishment/Westminster elite cover up?

No doubt time will tell…
 
jonbeeza said:
No I am not, I know it was a very serious issue what he was accused of etc etc. Just I am being a bit silly that's all, and saying I am simply not keen on his music :)
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Truth be told neither am I.
But.....nothing wrong with silly :-)
 
My problem is not just about the fact that he can't defend himself, its a waste of police time and resource. He can't be prosecuted so whats the point?
 
cambsno said:
My problem is not just about the fact that he can't defend himself, its a waste of police time and resource. He can't be prosecuted so whats the point?
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I guess is the problem is the police/authority figures that may of turned a blind eye and if they are still in the position of power.
 
He can't be prosecuted but if the allegations are proved true there will be others who should be made to answer for their part in any cover up.
 
Steep said:
He can't be prosecuted but if the allegations are proved true there will be others who should be made to answer for their part in any cover up.
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Exactly so, and it can be seen as symptomatic of the entire lack of openness and transparency shown by the entire government/establishment over recent years. There are very few politicians of any party left or right that you'd believe is actually telling you the truth when they're opening and closing their mouths! And for the police to be complicit in this is totally wrong.
 
Steep said:
He can't be prosecuted but if the allegations are proved true there will be others who should be made to answer for their part in any cover up.
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"If"
That's the key.
It may come to nothing, but the particular poop in question sticks.
 
But surely if an allegation is made there's no excuse for not following it up properly irrespective of the eventual outcome.
 
bindex said:
But surely if an allegation is made there's no excuse for not following it up properly irrespective of the eventual outcome.
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Absolutely.
But preferably not tried before a jury of DM readers who care nothing for the truth.
 
viv1969 said:
Because you've mentioned it before:LOL:
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I may have mentioned going to see them recently at Montrose (because I got a free ticket). I have one CD of theirs a greatest hits thing, hardly a fan and I couldn't give a toss about Suggs actually.
 
It's not just the policeman, there seem to have been some very direct and silly attempts to thwart and American journalist. She was actually looking into certain economic irregularities linked to jersey but kept during her investigation bumping into potential child abuse. When she tried to travel there she was picked up at the border and detained for 12 hours and send back to the U.S. She still has a valid visa. Some people really did not want her to be digging deeper. For that to happen after a valid visa was granted I would suggest that it is still actively being protected.

However, sure we hear a lot about the famous and the powerful, but why not. Considering how sick the attitude here was and often still is to children there are hundreds if not thousands of unknown people at it. And there are a lot of people dedicated to catch those involved, and unfortunately whilst doing that really get hurt themselves as someone has to was, see and read the s*** that these men and women get up to.

In reality it is still all around us, and unfortunately a fair few will members on her, your local sports club, your colleagues, your family members. So why not famous people and politicians.
 
dejongj said:
It's not just the policeman, there seem to have been some very direct and silly attempts to thwart and American journalist. She was actually looking into certain economic irregularities linked to jersey but kept during her investigation bumping into potential child abuse. When she tried to travel there she was picked up at the border and detained for 12 hours and send back to the U.S. She still has a valid visa. Some people really did not want her to be digging deeper. For that to happen after a valid visa was granted I would suggest that it is still actively being protected.

However, sure we hear a lot about the famous and the powerful, but why not. Considering how sick the attitude here was and often still is to children there are hundreds if not thousands of unknown people at it. And there are a lot of people dedicated to catch those involved, and unfortunately whilst doing that really get hurt themselves as someone has to was, see and read the s*** that these men and women get up to.

In reality it is still all around us, and unfortunately a fair few will members on her, your local sports club, your colleagues, your family members. So why not famous people and politicians.
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I totally agree JP.
But they should not be tried by media / social media.
 
We also now know that MI5 were tasked with investigating at least one child-abuse suspect because the police couldn't be trusted to do it. I suspect we're just scratching the surface here.
 
dejongj said:
Fully agreed, in my opinion they shouldn't be named unless found guilty.
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This is the problem.
The idiotic public tend to assume guilt as soon as someone has been named, which suggests that it's wrong to name people in this way.
But the police take the view that unless they name people - and basically ask possible victims to come forward - these crimes will go unpunished. And it works for them, but with the side effect of encouraging false allegations and villifying people who may be innocent.
 
Then again, someone did come forward today who was shut up previously. It is a really difficult one.
 
Llamaman said:
We also now know that MI5 were tasked with investigating at least one child-abuse suspect because the police couldn't be trusted to do it. I suspect we're just scratching the surface here.
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The police have lost credibility over recent years because they have lost their independence and have just become an arm of government, used by successive governments to keep the public in line - possibly the first and most obvious example of this was their policing of the miners strike, back in Thatcher's day.

And now the Courts, which are supposed to act as a check on the police, have become just another arm of government too.

And the press, which has always had a very important role in bringing injustices to public notice, is severely restricted, so that longstop has effectively gone.

And the IPCC, which is supposed to investigate police actions, is seriously under-resourced and its terms of reference actually prevent it from doing what it's supposed to do, so basically we have all of these systems in place but none of them are actually allowed to work.

Funny, I was having a conversation about freedom with a Chinese friend who has just come to this country only last week. To her, it was great to be able to join Facebook and to be able to have freedom of speech - but I pointed out that, in this country, we have the freedom to disagree with government and the freedom to demonstrate peacefully, but for all the good it does, those freedoms may as well not exist because they have no effect on government.. For example, about 1 million people demonstrated against the Iraq war but our politicions took no notice whatever - was Robin Cook really the only labour politician who could tell right from wrong?

The irony here of course is that M15 is a branch of government too, it's just that they are not part of the community, have no local affiliations and loyalties and so can be trusted more than the police.
 
I'm not so certain about that that. To me the loss of credibility is mainly regarding the historic events, they seem to have been wildly out of control in those days and the current generation has to pick up the pieces in historic reviews.

I do think it is a lot better nowadays.
 
bit of a BUM deal after all this time ,no wonder ted had to sink his yacht probably got the GOLDEN RIVET out while mid channel ,you know what SEMEN are like :exit::exit::exit:
 
dejongj said:
I'm not so certain about that that. To me the loss of credibility is mainly regarding the historic events, they seem to have been wildly out of control in those days and the current generation has to pick up the pieces in historic reviews.

I do think it is a lot better nowadays.
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Sorry, but if you think that you don't have much experience of how the police operate behind the scenes. Public statements by Chief Constables are worth about as much as public statements by politicians.
Even without personal knowledge, how do you reconcile your belief with the events in Rotherham that weren't so long ago (if indeed they have even stopped) and where the police admit that they failed to take action?
 
Garry Edwards said:
Sorry, but if you think that you don't have much experience of how the police operate behind the scenes. Public statements by Chief Constables are worth about as much as public statements by politicians.
Even without personal knowledge, how do you reconcile your belief with the events in Rotherham that weren't so long ago (if indeed they have even stopped) and where the police admit that they failed to take action?
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It is a good point about Rotherham at the face of it. Although in my opinion the root cause behind that is a very different current cultural trend, once that didn't exist all those years ago. Yes on the face of it they are comparable, in fact they are very very different from a policing perspective.

I'm not even going to go down the route of the nonsense you wrote regarding personal experience, a it is a cop out, and b you just don't know. It is an unnecessary comment.
 
dejongj said:
I'm not so certain about that that. To me the loss of credibility is mainly regarding the historic events, they seem to have been wildly out of control in those days and the current generation has to pick up the pieces in historic reviews.

I do think it is a lot better nowadays.
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Jean-Charles de Menezes, "Plebgate", and other occasions where the police have knowing lied in official statements prove there is still a fundamental problem with the police believing they serve themselves not the community.
 
dejongj said:
Then again, someone did come forward today who was allegedly shut up previously. It is a really difficult one.
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See what I did there? ;)
 
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