The Official Fuji X10/X20/X30/XF1/XQ1 Thread

And another X20 street grab.



Rhodese.
 
Really lovely photos! The colours are fantastic in all of them.

So... Last night, I emailed the Curry's knowhow team. I explained in the email that I'd like to return the camera and still had everything it came with, minus the plastic wrapping the internals came in. When I hadn't had a reply by this morning, my impatient self phoned them.

The knowhow team on the phone said that was not a problem and arranged the courier to collect it.
I've just received a reply to my email - stating no return whatsoever, not even a partial one, will be offered as it's been opened.

Are they going to receive the camera from the courier on Wednesday, see that it has indeed been opened and, despite being told it was okay over the phone, decide it's actually not okay and just send it back to me? o_O
 
Possibly, at which point you point out that they arranged collection and you play courier Ping-Pong with it for a while!
 
minnnt said:
Do you want me to send you my plastic bags?
Click to expand...

Ack, only just seeing this now and it's already packed up! I did have a read of the invoice before packing though and it has a section on returns on the pack - it quotes the distance selling regulations and states, whether opened or not, I'm entitled to a full refund if the product is returned within 7 days of purchase. So I think the guy in the email was confused and thought I'd bought it instore (y)

They said it should be with them tomorrow... wonder how long I'll be waiting for the money to be back in my bank... a week? 2 weeks? :exit: they're always quick to take it but slow to give it back lol
 
The DSR's are pretty good so I shouldn't imagine you will have a problem with them taking it back. As you say, the refund could take longer than the actual bother of packing it up and having it picked up. Lol.
 
toadstool said:
Ack, only just seeing this now and it's already packed up! I did have a read of the invoice before packing though and it has a section on returns on the pack - it quotes the distance selling regulations and states, whether opened or not, I'm entitled to a full refund if the product is returned within 7 days of purchase. So I think the guy in the email was confused and thought I'd bought it instore (y)

They said it should be with them tomorrow... wonder how long I'll be waiting for the money to be back in my bank... a week? 2 weeks? :exit: they're always quick to take it but slow to give it back lol
Click to expand...

DSRs state that they need to process the repayment ASAP and no later than 28 days. That said, I used DSR with Orange and they failed to even meet the 28 days requirement and told me to f*** off when I complained.
 
28 days :eek:

edit - had a scour of their T&C's and they say within 3-5 business days. We'll see. So what, next Thursday at the latest?
 
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Fingers crossed for a quick repayment, Toni.
 
Just joined this site, after finding this thread in a google search for info on the X20, and may I say, what a brilliant vault of opinion, information and inspirational photographs this is. I've read so many reviews on the X20, but this thread is just about the most informative review of them all - if a little exhaustive to get through !! ;)
I'm getting back into photography, having spent years as a rather hopeless point and shoot merchant with a Canon Powershot A720. In the ol' film days I used to use an OM1 & 2, and they were such lovely cameras to use IMO.
I've never liked the Powershot A720. It's slow, eats batteries, and generally just never made me want to pick it up and take photos. Now I know that's down to my enthusiasm too, can't blame the camera, but one of the reasons I'm thinking of getting an X20 is because it seems to be one of those cameras that people just love using. So if I may, I'd like your opinion on my reasons for buying one:-

Firstly, I much prefer using a viewfinder to an LCD screen for taking photo's, so the X20 is an obvious choice. Although I know it would make most sense to start with a good secondhand DSLR, to practice the craft, affording me all the flexibility I could warrant at this stage, I was thinking that if I could get something more portable that served me well enough whilst I 'honed my craft' then I could get a DSLR once I'm more competent, and know better what I would need. Having read this thread, and looked at some of your results, I'm now thinking the XF1 is such an amazing bargain that maybe I should get that now, and put the savings over an X20 towards a DSLR ?. However, it doesn't have that viewfinder, which is the reason I was attracted to the X20 in the first place. It's a tricky one as the XF1 is truly portable where the X20 isn't, especially if I'm going to add a filter (if only to protect the lens). Having said that, I've always carried my old A720 in a Lowerpro belt pouch anyway, so would do the same with the X20.

So do you think I'm bonkers deciding to get an X20 as my only digital camera ?

I've gone round and round in circles reading all the reviews on the X20, weighing up the plus and minus points, so a big :ty: is deserved here for all the exerience, opinions, and photos, as it's helped me get things straight.
I did have reservations about the results shooting in RAW, but it seems using the latest version of Lightroom, or Silkypix gets as good a result as anyone could expect from any sub £400 compact, so that shouldn't be a concern - am I right ?
I also had reservations about the battery life, but the fact that DuncanDisorderly got 533 RAW images from a single battery at the Pride Sheep Fair (nice pics Duncan!) seems to negate the worries. I also understand the battery life gets better after a few full charges ?

My only real remaining gripe is that apparently the camera goes into a sleep mode, from which it takes twice as long to wake up as it does to turn the camera on, and this seems to negate the attractive speedy turn on time ? Have I read right, and has anyone found this a problem,

So would you advise a rethink on my "do it all" camera, would an XF1 do pretty much everything an X20 would, should I wait for the X30 whenever that is due, or am I expecting too much from a compact and is not having a DSLR is too limiting for really creative photography ?
I'd like to get something soon, to get my skills improved before our once in a lifetime Australia hols later in the year, where an excellent portable camera would be just the ticket !

Thanks

Rene
 
Hi, Rene and welcome to TP.

XF v X20...

I have (and use) both so am reasonably well qualified to comment on them and the differences between them. I shoot JPEGs rather than raw but either is capable of both output formats. You'd be hard pushed to tell similar shots from one another in terms of image quality (IQ), either can give A3+ prints straight out of camera (SOOC). The only differences I've found are in the handling and menu options. If you want to use filters, the X20 is the obvious choice - it's possible on the XF but the bolt on holder would remove the XF's major advantage in that it slips neatly into a shirt pocket. The X20 is also significantly better at close ups. Never had a problem with either going to sleep on me, I tend to either switch off between shots or shooting sessions or take shots frequently enough to keep them awake! I think there are options in both of their menus to choose the time before they go to kip. The X20's viewfinder is quite handy but does suffer a bit from parallax close up. The information it has in the OVF is limited and can be hard to see against the subject.

I actually have 2 XF1s and keep one in the car for the times I forget to grab any other camera. I was happy with the first one I bought which I paid full introductory price on and was ecstatic when the second only cost me £160 with a Fuji case (which fits and matches the camera perfectly). If you main priority is pocketability, I would go for the XF but if you want better close ups and/or to fit filters, the X20 is a better choice IMO. I love all 3 of my baby X Fujis! (And their larger cousins, an X-Pro1 and an X-T1.)
 
I've just sold all my DSLR gear with the view of buying a decent compact. I used to have an x10 and was thinking of that or an x20 I bought the XF1 and was might impressed with it - it just didn't fit as well in my hands as I remember the x10 did and I severely missed the viewfinder. The XF1 is on its way back and I'll be purchasing an x10 once the money is back in my account - after reading the difference made in the x20, I decided it wasn't worth the extra ££ over the x10.

Nod gives the XF1 a glowing review though so I think it really does just come down to what fits better in your hands - get yourself down to curry's and have a handle and a play with both :)

The x10 will be my only camera :)
 
Welcome Rene. Have you looked through the viewfinder on an x20? That alone was enough to put me off unfortunately as it's tiny and a fisheye! :( I bought an XF1 then sold it after getting smitten by the x20 and needing to free up funds to buy one. A couple of days later I bought another XF1. :LOL: The XF is truly pocketable and it can go everywhere with you if you so wish. The x20 is a big lump by comparison. I like to use mine for street stuff as you just look like a tourist and people don't get arsy with you for pointing a massive dslr in their faces. The quality it produces at base settings is pretty indistinguishable from my d7000 unless I look closely. The colours and profiles available really are awesome and not alot touches them in that respect imo.

Both excellent cameras and I would be happy to travel with either.1 thing to remember though is that they only close to f11 and with a poxy maximum SS of 1/2000 it's possible to end up with a fair few over exposed shots. The x20 would deal with that better due to having a filter ring and you could add a ND or CPL to help out. Usually fine in this country but Aus will be a totally different ball game with regards to light so it may be worth baring in mind.

HTH's???
David.
 
minnnt said:
Super shots Marcus, really really like the first one. Nice perspective and the purple hue at the top really contrasts with the yellow and blues.
Click to expand...

Cheers David - had a lot of fun out and about with the XF-1 today... only slight problem I found was I must have knocked the dial at the top part way through the day and moved it off Aperture Priority mode... luckily its all set to take RAW so I was able to recover and enhance most of the shots in LR5 :thumbs:
 
The x10/x20 with a pretty little half case means there's no need to pocket it - nothing better than an extremely aesthetically pleasing camera swinging from your shoulder :whistle:

Haha but no - if pocketability is a major plus, I'd go for the XF1. I think I might have spoken about my love of half cases on this thread or my other recent one already though so I'll leave it at that :exit:
 
After reading the write ups on here and already having a refurbished X10 from Fuji decided that the XF1 would be easier to carry around on a day to day basis. Not the smoothest transaction this time with Fuji for the refurbed XF1, camera took a week to arrive and as usual City express messed up the delivery as well. Complained to Fuji about the issues with the order and delivery, and credit where credits due got a reply within the hour apologising for the mix up and by way of an apology theory would send me a case and memory card, that's what you call customer service. Now looking forward to getting out and using the XF1, once I have put all my settings in place. But thanks to everyone for the photo's and the tip off about the refurbed cameras, with delivey came in around £105, managed to find a 10% discount code.
 
Nod - thanks for your valuable comparison, and once again a reservation put straight by this thread with your experience of the "sleep" mode. That XF1 really does give amazing results for a £130 camera, as demonstrated by Marcus, and very interesting to hear toadstool, that you're trading in your DSLR for an X10. My thinking in using an X20 as my only camera isn't way off it seems :-). Minnnt, yes I have looked through the viewfinder. A few weeks back I strolled into Jessops to see what options there were for me, and got mighty confused with all the options ! Having looked through a couple of electronic viewfinders, I wasn't impressed, as they seemed pretty fuzzy and in some ways worse than using the LCD. Last week though, going back and having the G16 in mind, the sales guy asked if I'd considered the X20, which I hadn't, but as soon as I looked through the viewfinder I was impressed enough to want to find out all about this camera. I must admit I didn't notice the fisheye effect, but it was the clarity that pleased me, in a way reminding me of my OM1, well, more so than the electronic viewfinders. I will have to revisit with your points in mind. To be honest, the only thing really that's stopping me choosing the XF1 is the fact that I wouldn't have a viewfinder, and the times when I might need a filter. Hadn't considered the need to avoid overexposure occasionally, especially if using it in Australia, as you point out Minnnt, so thanks for that. Mmm, I can see another visit to Jessops is in order to try the XF1 for size and relook at the X20.
 
I too used an OMin in film days and a pocket XA.
I have a Fuji X10 and an X20 ....I can not get along with using an arms length camera so the XF1 is out for me.
I use the X20 in raw and simple love it...
I have not used my canon 40d since I bought the X20, even though I have the costly 17-55 F2.8 lens as a standard zoom.
Who knows I might buy the next incarnation as well...................:D
 
As long as you're happy with the VF then all is good. Also be aware that when it's zoomed out youcan see the lens through it but I guess tthat's not a big issue really.

The Q button on the bigger X's is an awesome feature and something which I wish the XF/XQ had. :(
 
minnnt said:
As long as you're happy with the VF then all is good. Also be aware that when it's zoomed out youcan see the lens through it but I guess tthat's not a big issue really.

The Q button on the bigger X's is an awesome feature and something which I wish the XF/XQ had. :(
Click to expand...

Nearly every 35mm viewfinder camera ever made shows a fraction of the lens in the view finder... some even made a feature of it , like on the Olympus trip that showed the focus markings on the side of the lens through it. This is something that has continued to this day.
 
Mornin,

"Nearly every 35mm viewfinder camera ever made shows a fraction of the lens in the view finder... some even made a feature of it , like on the Olympus trip that showed the focus markings on the side of the lens through it. This is something that has continued to this day."

A nice reminder that Terry. (y).

Welcome Rene, both cameras are great, the images are on a par with one another.
If pocketability is the be all and end all, then go for the XF1.
If not, and you like the discreetness of using a viewfinder instead of holding the camera out, speedier control, then go for the X20.

Like I have already said the pictures will be good whichever you choose.

Rhodese.

PS. You could always disregard the viewfinder on the X20 and still have the speed of access.
 
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It is quite difficult to find a complete comparison of the features But there is one here http://thenewcamera.com/fujifilm-x20-vs-fujifilm-xf1/

Important factors to consider that are often not mentioned is the difference between the sensors and processors.
The X20 has the latest versions of both that allow faster focus and quicker processing.
The cameras feature different lenses with different Zoom ranges. The XF1 goes slightly wider and the X20 longer.
Because the lens on the XF1 is wider, the aperture is slightly greater at the widest (but not through the Zoom range)
Some people prefer the XF1 lens range. Others like myself prefer that of the X20. They are both equally sharp But the sensor on the X20 captures greater detail as it has no low pass filter. The latest Adobe raw processors have solved their problem with the advanced Fuji EXR sensor configurations.
 
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I pleased to see this is one of the busy threads on TP and it's ages since I posted anything here so I'll make amends now!
I've been to the Scillies to a wedding (guest not tog!) On the day of the ceremony I was only able to use the X10 (demands of costume etc...) but it didn't let me down, the shooting conditions were a dream. There'd been a storm in the night with gales force winds and the air was as clear as a clear thing can be, still windy gusting force 7 but brilliant sun/light.
The shots with with the little Fuji were everything I wanted....and more. The bride and groom are more than happy with the pics and told me that some of them where as good as the pro's. (I'm sure they were being kind and polite!)
After the ceremony we went to a sheltered beach for some snaps, here's a sample. They're not straight OOC but there's not too much PP.
Click for larger

Take-off over Land's End
Lands end. by Farmejim, on Flickr
Landing in St Mary's ( or on St Mary's)
Aboard a twin engined Otter by Farmejim, on Flickr

The hand-maidens trying to stay upright (wind and champagne!)
Scillies wedding by Farmejim, on Flickr

Bride and groom
Scillies wedding by Farmejim, on Flickr
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
I too used an OMin in film days and a pocket XA.
I have a Fuji X10 and an X20 ....I can not get along with using an arms length camera so the XF1 is out for me.
I use the X20 in raw and simple love it...
I have not used my canon 40d since I bought the X20, even though I have the costly 17-55 F2.8 lens as a standard zoom.
Who knows I might buy the next incarnation as well...................:D
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Thanks Terry. If I remember rightly, you said somewhere earlier in this thread that the X10 RAW images resulted in some aberrations (apologies, can't remember the exact terminology) so I assume the X20 has resolved those as you indicate here ? I must admit I've read so many conflicting opinions over the results of the RAW v JPEG files from the X range it does get a little confusing. No doubt once I get to grips with it I will be able to more fully understand the possibilities. Still very much a beginner but looking forward to learning both the tool and the craft :)
Just seen your other comment, which has answered the RAW question, and thanks for the comparison, will check that out.
 
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Rene, have a play with raw but don't avoid JPEGs, especially from the baby Xs. Try a simple test - take a shot in raw+JPEG (highest quality, largest size), do your best with the raw file then print both at A4. Now show both prints to other people and see which they prefer. Assuming the original is decently exposed, I think you might be surprised at the answers you'll get!
 
Nod said:
Rene, have a play with raw but don't avoid JPEGs, especially from the baby Xs. Try a simple test - take a shot in raw+JPEG (highest quality, largest size), do your best with the raw file then print both at A4. Now show both prints to other people and see which they prefer. Assuming the original is decently exposed, I think you might be surprised at the answers you'll get!
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That comparison does not work.
It is comparing the in camera adjusted Jpeg with an as yet totally un-adjusted Raw file. In such a situation a Jpeg wins hands down on any camera.
The true test is to compare the in camera adjusted Jpeg with an expertly adjusted Raw file. In a majority of cases it is the raw conversion that wins hands down.

The comparison is between a one size fits all adjustment in camera, with a conversion individually adjusted to the scene and conditions.

However Most people find that the X10 is an exception, due to its strange sensor ... few have been able to improve on the Jpegs which are exceptional.
This is not true on either the XF1 or the X20 which both produce excellent jpegs, as we have all seen... but their raws can be even better.

There is no point in taking raws on any camera, unless you are prepared to take at least some time processing them... as many of us do.
 
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Stop stirring, David!!! ;)

Please excuse the snipped quote and the emphasis applied is mine, Terry.

few have been able to improve on the Jpegs which are exceptional.
This is not true on either the XF1 or the X20 which both produce excellent jpegs, as we have all seen... but their raws can be even better.
Click to expand...

Having played around with raw and doing far too much PP in my early digital days, I now much prefer the convenience and speed of JPEGs. Having been a slide film shooter for some years, I got used to taking a little extra care at the taking instant to avoid extra expense in wasted poor exposures so for me JPEGs are the better choice. They can still be rescued a bit if necessary but I rarely shoot anything that's that critical and usually have an opportunity to reshoot if I need to.
 
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