The Official Fuji X10/X20/X30/XF1/XQ1 Thread

I think its either;

a) A bug in LR4.1 with the clarity slider

OR

b) Some sort of artefact in the FUJI file that the clarity slider highlights

Duncan, if you play with the clarity slider on picture 1, 5 or 6 can you reproduce something similar at the top horizon?

Nothing I do in LR allows me to get rid of it except if I drop the clarity slider (even the magic spot tool set to clone and 100 won't remove it).
 
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souldeep said:
I think its either;

a) A bug in LR4.1 with the clarity slider

OR

b) Some sort of artefact in the FUJI file that the clarity slider highlights

Duncan, if you play with the clarity slider on picture 1, 5 or 6 can you reproduce something similar at the top horizon?

Nothing I do in LR allows me to get rid of it except if I drop the clarity slider (even the magic spot tool set to clone and 100 won't remove it).
Click to expand...

It is difficult to comprehend exactly what the clarity slider does. It has equally strange effects if moved in the other direction.
I tend not to use it at all.
At best it seems to sharpen and brighten the mid tones/colours.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
It is difficult to comprehend exactly what the clarity slider does. It has equally strange effects if moved in the other direction.
I tend not to use it at all.
At best it seems to sharpen and brighten the mid tones/colours.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the clarity slider is a mid tone contrast slider.
 
souldeep said:
I think its either;

a) A bug in LR4.1 with the clarity slider

OR

b) Some sort of artefact in the FUJI file that the clarity slider highlights

Duncan, if you play with the clarity slider on picture 1, 5 or 6 can you reproduce something similar at the top horizon?

Nothing I do in LR allows me to get rid of it except if I drop the clarity slider (even the magic spot tool set to clone and 100 won't remove it).
Click to expand...

Original and max clarity.
Still can't see any smudging :thinking:

1)
i-9Mh74dp-S.jpg
i-Fm2N2B7-S.jpg


5)
i-nW8rbXS-S.jpg
i-xFb3qpv-S.jpg


6)
i-92gh39H-S.jpg
i-Q3xwT34-S.jpg


Admittedly, clarity looks fairly subtle at this size, but viewed in LR my screen :gag:
We could rule out the LR installations being different if we sent each other a RAW file to play with. If you want to try that, please PM me.
 
For something completely different... Over in the Film and Conventional forum, I have a post comparing the X10 with my ancient Pentax ME with Provia 100F transparency film, at the Pistyll Rhaedr waterfall in Wales (highest single drop in the UK, apparently taller than Niagara although a tad less voluminous). If interested, see http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=4907461&postcount=2
 
Phil Young said:
X10 now discontinued in jessops...possible upgrade model?
Click to expand...

Interesting, my local Jessops still shows them in stock and available to order online and instore.
Jessops are pretty slow on the uptake when it comes to new releases, I doubt they would remove a camera from sale till they actually get an updated model in stock.
Unless the X10 stocks are drying up quickly!

Allan
 
Terry thanks for your help. I've certainly understood a lot more about the function after reading that link!

Duncan - will try and PM you the image now.

Thanks all :-)
 
Has anyone used the Voice Note system? I thought it might be useful for keeping track of shooting conditions... I did record a trial one today, then forgot about it and uploaded all the shots into Aperture, then deleted them from the camera. Looks like the Voice Note didn't make it!
 
souldeep said:
Terry thanks for your help. I've certainly understood a lot more about the function after reading that link!

Duncan - will try and PM you the image now.

Thanks all :-)
Click to expand...

Souldeep,
Image received, and I get the problem too!
For some reason I was expecting you to have taken in RAW, and that LR was badly interpreting the X10 RAW.
Reading back, I think that was my misconception.
My impression is that Souldeep's JPEG looks clean until the Clarity is wound up, and then I get the problem he described. It looks like the screenshot he posted earlier is withclarity at 100%.
It looks fine at the sort of clarity setting I would routinely use.

Here's access to the full size JPEG's from my RAWs; straight conversion using LR4 defaults.
http://www.wild-landscapes.co.uk/Other/2012/Souldeep/24921370_Nnx2gX
They don't exhibit the problem, but with 100% clarity they are ever so slightly different from their RAWs with 100% Clarity - but there is no bleeding.

Otherwise I'm struggling for a suggestion as to why your JPEG does ths.
Your image is ISO 200, mine are either ISO 100 or 400; so it is unlikely to be ISO.
I could be something to do with the way the X10 encodes the JPEGs?
When I get back to my library I need to find some X10 JPEGs to play with.

You mentioned that you have some RAWs that show the same problem.
If you can work out how to get one of those to me, I'd love to see it.
But I don't think I'll be able to solve what is going on...

Slightly off topic...
It's also worth noting that any on a shallow depth of field image the clarity slider usually tries to crispen up the OOF areas destroying all the nice bokeh.
The solution is to ONLY use clarity selectively using local adjustment.
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
Souldeep,
Image received, and I get the problem too!
For some reason I was expecting you to have taken in RAW, and that LR was badly interpreting the X10 RAW.
Reading back, I think that was my misconception.
My impression is that Souldeep's JPEG looks clean until the Clarity is wound up, and then I get the problem he described. It looks like the screenshot he posted earlier is withclarity at 100%.
It looks fine at the sort of clarity setting I would routinely use.

Here's access to the full size JPEG's from my RAWs; straight conversion using LR4 defaults.
http://www.wild-landscapes.co.uk/Other/2012/Souldeep/24921370_Nnx2gX
They don't exhibit the problem, but with 100% clarity they are ever so slightly different from their RAWs with 100% Clarity - but there is no bleeding.

Otherwise I'm struggling for a suggestion as to why your JPEG does ths.
Your image is ISO 200, mine are either ISO 100 or 400; so it is unlikely to be ISO.
I could be something to do with the way the X10 encodes the JPEGs?
When I get back to my library I need to find some X10 JPEGs to play with.

You mentioned that you have some RAWs that show the same problem.
If you can work out how to get one of those to me, I'd love to see it.
But I don't think I'll be able to solve what is going on...

Slightly off topic...
It's also worth noting that any on a shallow depth of field image the clarity slider usually tries to crispen up the OOF areas destroying all the nice bokeh.
The solution is to ONLY use clarity selectively using local adjustment.
Click to expand...

Hi Duncan,

Thanks a million for taking the time to test this. I do find the problem in both RAW and JPG but it can be slightly more pronounced in JPG. I too am away on business slightly longer than expected so I can't get back to my library of RAW's to dig one out as of yet.

Only pattern I've noticed is it tends to effect X10 images that have around 30% of the image with a blue sky. I've read up on a clarity bug that was fixed in 4.1 but i wonder if it related and still has some issue. BTW - I start to notice those problems at 50% clarity slider and beyond.

Regards my camera - I've had the same issue on two X10's so I don't think it's specific to one camera being slightly faulty.

Agreed about shallow DOF images - in fact I don't even bother with PP on those types of images.
 
We need some more images... here are a few beasties from a recent sunny stroll.

1- not a well mouse! Macro working reasonably well; this thing was tiny!

DSCF3485.jpg


2- butterfly on a wild Buddleia

DSCF3490.jpg


3- an interested looking calf; the concerned mother was just off to the side!

DSCF3505.jpg


Hope you enjoy! I had thought my X10 was a little muted compared to its pre-sensor-change self, but these look OK to me.
 
Got my x10 back after a week so pretty quick. I've only been able to test it late tonight but pictures look noisy. It only says sensor change on job sheet so does that not mean they have carried out the software update?

Andy
 
I should send them an email asking. My X10 was a little noisy after the sensor change and the software update made a big difference.
Funny that they didnt seem to do the lot all in one go.
Allan
 
I sent my replacement X10 back to Fuji on Monday and the postman just arrived with a brand new boxed X10 this morning! 😃
Its a 22 serial number one so hopefully will have the new sensor and software. I don't want to go through all that again!
So, top marks to Fuji ( eventually) great comms all the way through this last week.
Confidence restored!
Allan
 
Thunderbird010 said:
Got my x10 back after a week so pretty quick. I've only been able to test it late tonight but pictures look noisy. It only says sensor change on job sheet so does that not mean they have carried out the software update?

Andy
Click to expand...

Pixel peeping on the X10 often does look a bit odd...
The best way to tell is to compare with images from before you sent it away.
Mine didn't state software on the job sheet either, but the noise levels are exactly the same as before it was sent off.
And stop pixel peeping ;)

Phil Young said:
I am in the x10 owners club as of 2 days ago!

Tomorrow it is my second camera for a wedding...will post how it performs :)
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The X10 is quite a complex little beasty.
I'd normally recommend a little time to get used to it before using in anger.
So I'll recommend not trying to be too clever.
If taking JPEG, I suggest P mode, DR Auto, ISO Auto 3200, AWB, Best quality and stick with std film type unless you like the saturated Velvia look.
If taking RAW, I suggest P mode, DR 100, ISO Auto 3200.

and take a spare battery!
The batteries improve with use - yours are new and will be rubbish (battery life improves to 'tolerable', but never 'good').
At the evening celebration it might be worth leaving the spare on charge in a corner of the room so you have plenty of charge to capture the late evening fun when a small camera becomes the weapon of choice.
 
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DuncanDisorderly said:
So I'll recommend not trying to be too clever.
If taking JPEG, I suggest P mode, DR Auto, ISO Auto 3200, and take a spare battery!
The batteries improve with use - yours are new and will be rubbish (battery life improves to 'tolerable', but never 'good').
At the evening celebration it might be worth leaving the spare on charge in a corner of the room so you have plenty of charge to capture the late evening fun when a small camera becomes the weapon of choice.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice Duncan.

My settings are actually going to be A mode, auto ISO 800 (not comfortable either the quality for wedding after this point) and I only have one battery but will be taking the charger. I'm quite comfortable with the camera and it's not that new to me (I had one briefly before). I just want to try it in a wedding situation to see how it is to use in that kind if environment.

When I post for critique I won't say what I used and see if people can tell the difference ..I bet not! ;)

Its actually to complement my Nikon D7000 when I have the telephoto on so I can switch to wide & normal views.
 
Phil Young said:
Thanks for the advice Duncan.

My settings are actually going to be A mode, auto ISO 800 (not comfortable either the quality for wedding after this point) and I only have one battery but will be taking the charger. I'm quite comfortable with the camera and it's not that new to me (I had one briefly before). I just want to try it in a wedding situation to see how it is to use in that kind if environment.

When I post for critique I won't say what I used and see if people can tell the difference ..I bet not! ;)

Its actually to complement my Nikon D7000 when I have the telephoto on so I can switch to wide & normal views.
Click to expand...

Yup - That's how I use my X10 at festivals to compliment a DSLR with a long lens.
Works a treat :thumbs:

Single battery IS going to be a problem... Plan ahead...

X10 has a low max shutter speed and way bigger aperture than a DSLR and with aperture priority I found I was frequently hitting the max shutter speed ending up with poor exposure.
P mode means you won't hit this problem.
Like I said - until you are familiar with the X10, don't try and be too clever!

ISO Auto 3200 simply means that when it gets that dark (and it will), you get something usable (the noise is quite acceptable for web use and A5 prints) instead of bad motion blur. The X10 will only bump the ISO that high if it needs to.

Something I forgot to mention - and it's important.
The X10 is quite happy selecting stupidly slow shutter speeds such as 1/20s.
With the IS and wide angle this produces a steady image and is fine for landscapes, but people dancing or other movement in the image is WAY too blurry to be acceptable.
There's a solution...
In IS Mode, change the default setting 'Continuous' to 'Continuous + Motion'.
This stops the shutter speed being dropped too far and in social situations like a wedding you will get far more keepers.
Note that the X10 will still use long shutter times, but only once the light level falls enough to make it necessary.

And yes please - love to see some results!
 
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Excellency tip Duncan about the AF!!! Such a clever camera. Ok I'll pop it on auto 3200...I'm trusting you Duncan!!! Haha. If the camera doesn't behave itself I'll just adjust but it would be really cool if it gets me the best IQ possible...

Not much I can do about the battery - I did want to get one but it was a late buy and getting the body was hard enough (I went to 4 jessops stores and wasn't about to buy a battery without the camera.

I'll switch my AF as soon as I get to the venue and will post some images here over the weekend.

Thanks again!
 
paul williams said:
Yes more images!

these from an outing today at A La Ronde

...

Paul
Click to expand...

Lovely, Paul. I just marvel at number 4; it looks almost unreal! Extraordinary in the true sense of the word. :thumbs:
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
In IS Mode, change the default setting 'Continuous' to 'Continuous + Motion'.
This stops the shutter speed being dropped too far and in social situations like a wedding you will get far more keepers.
Note that the X10 will still use long shutter times, but only once the light level falls enough to make it necessary.
Click to expand...

:thumbs: another Duncan Top Tip!
 
ChrisR said:
We need some more images... here are a few beasties from a recent sunny stroll.

1- not a well mouse! Macro working reasonably well; this thing was tiny!

DSCF3485.jpg
Click to expand...

Thats so cute and well done getting down and dirty at mouse level. Makes for a very interesting shot :)
 
souldeep said:
Thats so cute and well done getting down and dirty at mouse level. Makes for a very interesting shot :)
Click to expand...

Yes, poor little fellow was just sat there shivering. I was surprised how well that came out; I could never have taken that with my Pentax ME even lying flat on the gravel! I moved him to the grass at the side, and when I came by again an hour or so later he was gone. I suspect passing dogs rather than his mum, though. :thumbsdown:
 
I had a go of one of these in Currys Digital last week, impressive to look at, but the performance wasn’t what I was expecting, obviously I should remind myself that it’s a compact (essentially) but my D5100 walks all over it in performance terms.

I was considering one too, just as a second camera, but I think I’ll just get a 50 F1.4 for the D5100 instead.
 
Niall97 said:
I had a go of one of these in Currys Digital last week, impressive to look at, but the performance wasn’t what I was expecting, obviously I should remind myself that it’s a compact (essentially) but my D5100 walks all over it in performance terms.

I was considering one too, just as a second camera, but I think I’ll just get a 50 F1.4 for the D5100 instead.
Click to expand...

I have the D7000 and can't tell a noticeable difference between ISO 1-400 even at 800 its competition unless pixel peeping.

Then lens on this bad boy ins incredible and outperforms all of its rivals.

Expect it time be the next D4 and you'll be disappointed but if you remember it's a compact you will be more than happy :)
 
Phil Young said:
I have the D7000 and can't tell a noticeable difference between ISO 1-400 even at 800 its competition unless pixel peeping.

Then lens on this bad boy ins incredible and outperforms all of its rivals.

Expect it time be the next D4 and you'll be disappointed but if you remember it's a compact you will be more than happy :)
Click to expand...

Well ISO 100-800 is nothing these days, even the XXXd canon’s can do that these days :D

I get what you mean though, for a high level compact I’d have a Canon S100 personally, but they’re different camera’s really.
 
Niall97 said:
I had a go of one of these in Currys Digital last week, impressive to look at, but the performance wasn’t what I was expecting, obviously I should remind myself that it’s a compact (essentially) but my D5100 walks all over it in performance terms.

I was considering one too, just as a second camera, but I think I’ll just get a 50 F1.4 for the D5100 instead.
Click to expand...

I wish I could make an informed opinion that quickly, it would save an awful lot of time!

50mm ƒ1.4 is a good choice for a dslr, even a D5100 should benefit from it.

Allan
 
I've produced an acceptable A3 print from the X10 at ISO 800.
Sure looks a mess pixel peeping though!

There's no doubt a DSLR gives better IQ than the X10.
The question is really whether the X10 IQ is good enough for you.
I rarely print bigger than A3, so my answer is definitely "yes!"

However - the non-IQ bits stand up to comparison far less well.
X10 focus speed and reliability are really poor compared to my 5DIII; but there has to be a difference for the over £2.5K price difference, increased size and increased weight - right?
Again - is the X10 acceptable? For me, 99 shots out of 100 are fine and I'm happy to live with the one shot in 100 where the X10 frustrates me.
 
It is a massive compliment to the X10 for any one to even think of comparing it to a quality DSLR.

Of course using a DSLR can be a massive overkill in many situations that suit an X10 down to the ground.
 
Thunderbird010 said:
Got my x10 back after a week so pretty quick. I've only been able to test it late tonight but pictures look noisy. It only says sensor change on job sheet so does that not mean they have carried out the software update?

Andy
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I too got my x10 back yesterday afternoon. It also says only sensor change on job sheet no mention of the software update.
Can anyone recommend best setting to test which would help see if this update has been done?

Ta
Peter
 
PeterEmilio said:
I too got my x10 back yesterday afternoon. It also says only sensor change on job sheet no mention of the software update.
Can anyone recommend best setting to test which would help see if this update has been done?

Ta
Peter
Click to expand...

Well - the problem was reported against low ISO.
So what I did was take ISO 100 and compare against some similar ISO 100 shots I took before I sent it away.
There was no difference in the level of detail or noise.
To be on the safe side I repeated the test at ISO 800 and 3200.

The X10 is not a good camera for pixel peeping and it is possible to convince yourself that even ISO 100 is unacceptable.
ISO 100 on the X10 is many times better than my old LX3, but you never hear about that; I think because the pixel peeping mania really took off after the LX3 was replaced by the LX5. The LX3 was highly regarded as a photographers camera!
The answer is to do something with the images - e.g. print to A3 or resize to HD for display - then the images look great!
 
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If I'm taking pictures of an 18 month old child, what are recommended settings. The amount of options makes my d90 look archaic.

I'm a bit scared i am going on holiday in a few days and haven't really use the x10 much.
 
As promised, here is some of the shots from my second camera (X10) at my last wedding.

I found it very suited to situations like this where quick snaps are a necessity. The quality isn't up to DSLR standard when you zoom in but I'm not that bothered as I can distance myself from wanting the most pin sharp noise free image in the world and seeing an image through the eyes of the intended.

Anyway, I used it in aperture priority and further to Duncan's advice, shot in auto ISO 800 (sorry pal, above that really wasn't worth shooting...and I'm by no means a pixel peeper).

Processed in LR.

#1
DSCF9165.jpg


#2
DSCF9215.jpg


#3
DSCF9205.jpg


#4
DSCF9270.jpg


#5
DSCF9277.jpg


#6
DSCF9231.jpg


Thanks for looking.
 
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Riz said:
If I'm taking pictures of an 18 month old child, what are recommended settings. The amount of options makes my d90 look archaic.

I'm a bit scared i am going on holiday in a few days and haven't really use the x10 much.
Click to expand...

Top of this page - same as advice to Phil.
Definitely IS set to Continuous + Motion :D

Phil Young said:
Oh and I lost my lens cap at the wedding somewhere! I've searched the internet and for such a simple piece of kit it seems very tricky to get hold of...does anyone know anywhere???
Click to expand...

I haven't seen a post saying where anybody got their replacement cap.
Hasn't happened to me (yet), mainly because I came from an LX3 which also had a cap; hence I'm used to the problem.
I either put the cap back in the pouch on my waist or hold it in the spare fingers of my right hand (the left hand needs to be kept free to drive the zoom).

Looks like you had fun at the wedding - nice shots!
Good use of B&W - did you do that in camera, or using PP when you got home?

Regards the ISO 3200 thing, you are right - we all make our own decisions about what is acceptable :)
When the light goes, the choice is either big ISO or long shutter speeds - both are a compromise on image quality when the subjects are moving.

Here's a shot taken with the X10 which could not have been taken with a hand held DSLR and kit lens.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=4242593&postcount=116
It was the first time I became aware that the X10 was a real weapon for photographing social events.
 
I put the cap in my trouser pocket. As I do with all my cameras, that have lens caps.
When I bought the camera there were "Two" lens caps in the box. so I have a spare.....:)
 
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