The Official Fuji X10/X20/X30/XF1/XQ1 Thread

[Terrywoodenpic]

It's the viewfinder's lack of precision for framing that really annoys me.

It does have one strong point. Low level, wide angle close ups.

Just taken this one.

I lived through the days when optical viewfinders were the norm on small cameras. Mostly they were very much worse than the one on the X10, Just about all but the very best gave the same sort of allowance.
Very few were truly accurate but some did correct for parallax.

The X10 gives a good clear view and is fairly free from parallax over 3 meters, as it should be. I do not know why it does not include a centre spot to help with focus and exposure estimation.

I now know I must fill the frame quite hard if I do not want to have to crop later. And that is now no problem for me... My one at least, is well lined up with the sensor... it would be interesting to know if this is the norm.

 

[ChrisR]

Love the pictures Chris. I have some shells from the Dead Sea, collected (no, not by me) around 1920. I didn't think anything lived in there with all that salt!
I just noticed you live in Kenilworth. We moved down here from the Fletchamstead Highway end of the Kenilworth Road at the end of '99
Small world eh?

Thanks Allan. I'm amazed at your shells form the Dead Sea, but I didn't even think to look. Some of our party did find some shells at the Sea of Galilee, but that's a fresh-water lake (the River Jordan flows out of it and down to the Dead Sea... another disappointment as the mighty Jordan River is about 20 feet across).

Kenilworth was a good base when I moved here from Australia in 1995, but now we've both retired it's a bit mad staying here, as we both really like to be close to the sea! But interia and procrastination are funny things...

Definitely suffering from X10 withdrawal symptoms this week!

 

[allanm]

Definitely suffering from X10 withdrawal symptoms this week!

Me too, just hope mine comes back early next week.
I love being by the sea too, we are about half a mile from the coast and can see the sea from our bedroom window. I retired from West Mids Police Sept 99 so we moved down here. I seem to be still working though, so that can't be right!
Allan

Ah, Dead Sea shells...thought that sounded wrong so I looked them out. Sea of Galilee, 1912, in an old ( Egyptian ) cigarette box! Picture, HERE

 

[Murraypics]

Thanks for the tips so far... glad that at least a few people on here are still enthusiastic! Due to the inclement weather I doubt I'll get much done this weekend, outdoors at least as I don't think the X10 was built for 'all-weather' use! However did some indoor shots of my nephew playing his guitar last night, B&W, EXR Auto mode and the results were excellent, given they were indoors, no flash and mostly handheld. The camera tended to head towards ISO800, 1600 on occasion and the results were still highly usable, crisp and sharp and good tonal definition. As for the overall feel, its just a lovely tool in the hand.

 

[JohnL]

........ Due to the inclement weather I doubt I'll get much done this weekend, outdoors at least as I don't think the X10 was built for 'all-weather' use!.....

What is the weatherproofing like on the X10? I am interested in it as a lightweight alternative to my d90 when traveling etc, which may involve it getting exposed to some weather...

John

 

[arentol]

Got my X10 today, open box copy off Amazon from authorized reseller so it has the warranty still. Cost me $450 shipped, so roughly £290 and it looks like it is in great shape.

Didn't have much of a chance to shoot yet, but got this shot of my coworker while we were waiting for the bus. Put it in SP-Portrait mode, pointed, zoomed to frame, and clicked. I am quite impressed by the quality of the results from something that was so simple to do. I am very happy with sharpness and color.

I also threw my 580EX II on it and it fired just fine once I found the right setting to turn on external flash firing. So it is nice to have that option if I need it, though having to set everything manually means it can only be used for more planned shots or consistent situations.

 

[DuncanDisorderly]

What is the weatherproofing like on the X10? I am interested in it as a lightweight alternative to my d90 when traveling etc, which may involve it getting exposed to some weather...

John

It isn't weather proofed, but I'll happily use it in the rain. Last weekend was typical.
It was raining hard so my X10 was in my coat pocket only taken out when I wanted to shoot.
I used my left hand to keep the rain off the lens.
It got to the point that zooming the lens, the barrel came out wet!
This has happened many times before and when I get home I take the battery out and leave the door open, extend the lens and leave in a warm dry place.
Touch wood, no problem so far!

Didn't have much of a chance to shoot yet, but got this shot of my coworker while we were waiting for the bus. Put it in SP-Portrait mode, pointed, zoomed to frame, and clicked. I am quite impressed by the quality of the results from something that was so simple to do. I am very happy with sharpness and color.

That's a cracking piccy!
The Fuji automatic modes are surprisingly good and in my experience often produce better quality images than trying to take control of the camera.
For example, aperture priority is a bit of a mare because setting for best image quality (about f4) will cause the X10 to hit max shutter speed in bright light.
I missed quite a few shots before deciding to leave the X10 in P mode; it now stays in P mode unless I have a creative effect in mind that needs me to take control.

Some people say they don't like P mode as it tends to prefer a big aperture to keep the shutter speed conservatively fast.
I don't subscribe to that view as on this camera the depth of field even at f2 is plenty deep enough for most shots.
The big challenge with the X10 is NOT getting the whole image sharp, such as throwing the background out of focus. That's much more difficult to achieve!

 

[ernesto]

I had same challenge with aperture priority and also moved to P but then decided as I was letting the camera pretty much do what it wanted most of the time why not just use EXR and let is fully decide and change things such as DR range and so on. Why have a dog and bark yourself.

It is good to have manual controls for certain situations but the sort of shooting I do doesn't usually require them. The film camera I liked using most was an Olympus Trip 35 which says it all I suppose...

 

[ChrisR]

I found my physical copy of the Photographer's Guide to the Fujifilm X10 waiting on the mat when I got home yesterday afternoon, and had a look at it this morning (see
http://whiteknightpress.com/wordpress/photographers-guide-to-the-fujifilm-x10/).

Alexander White describes the book as for the beginner to intermediate photographer; I'm guessing the latter phrase pretty much describes me (you can't really be a beginner after 45 years!). TBH the book looks a bit basic, but that's perhaps because he goes through ALL the options. I really like the direct style (for example, he talks about things "I recommend" and suggests that "you may wish" to do otherwise). By now, I'm pretty comfortable with the way I use the X10, but I'm going to read this right through as I think it will help me explore other options (for example, I've never really used the L image size setting after some comments from Kim Letkeman and others about its relationship to EXR, so I'll be looking more closely at that).

 

[DayDreamer]

The big challenge with the X10 is NOT getting the whole image sharp, such as throwing the background out of focus. That's much more difficult to achieve!

I am starting to feel the X10 was not meant for me either

My favourite mode is/was A and after a recent trip out trying to get various 'objects' (not my wife ) into focus with background out of focus I gave up. Also Pro Focus tends to be hit and miss.

It was a sunny day and using F2 (one of the main reasons I bought this camera and not Canon S95/S100 Panasonic LX5, Olympus XZ-1) I found the shutter speed maxing out and shots white washed out. So I tried the Pro Focus mode but it doesn't let you choose the point of focus insisting it WILL be dead centre of shot and I kept getting 'will not take so adjust subject and/or background position' Also couldn't see the LCD screen as it was too bright and no info in the viewfinder.

So feeling my old Panasonic TZ compact was a lot cheaper and not worth paying more for the X10. Unless anyone has any work arounds for using A mode and getting faster speeds.

Also wondered if this is the same for all the F1.8/F2 compacts mentioned above

 

[JohnL]

Damn you all, I've just pressed the button!

£356.55 for a refurbished X10, the funky leather case and 3 4GB class 10 cards with postage from the Fujishop.

Is 7dayshop the best bet for spare batteries??

Why do I always order things at the beginning of weekends to maximise my wait!!!

John

 

[Phall82]

Damn you all, I've just pressed the button!

£356.55 for a refurbished X10, the funky leather case and 3 4GB class 10 cards with postage from the Fujishop.

Is 7dayshop the best bet for spare batteries??

Why do I always order things at the beginning of weekends to maximise my wait!!!

John

Alcohol on a Friday night?

 

[JohnL]

Alcohol on a Friday night?

What are you implificating?

 

[allanm]

It was a sunny day and using F2 (one of the main reasons I bought this camera and not Canon S95/S100 Panasonic LX5, Olympus XZ-1) I found the shutter speed maxing out and shots white washed out. So I tried the Pro Focus mode but it doesn't let you choose the point of focus insisting it WILL be dead centre of shot and I kept getting 'will not take so adjust subject and/or background position' Also couldn't see the LCD screen as it was too bright and no info in the viewfinder.

So feeling my old Panasonic TZ compact was a lot cheaper and not worth paying more for the X10. Unless anyone has any work arounds for using A mode and getting faster speeds.

Also wondered if this is the same for all the F1.8/F2 compacts mentioned above

I think that if you use M ( manual mode) you get a faster shutter speed up to 1/4000th and you can use f2 if you ignore the camera telling you you can't use that speed!
You will probably need to experiment a bit to see what the best settings are but I have seen some great shots using 1/4000th at f2 and iso 400.
Have you tried adjusting the exposure compensation dial? You can see the effect in the rear screen.

I can't try it on mine at the moment because its away having its sensor upgraded.
Allan

 

[DayDreamer]

Thanks Allan

You sure are showing the spirit of this forum and this particular thread. I will experiment as you suggest. My problem has been since buying the X10 I have suffered the most horrendous health issues on top of already poor health all of which have jaundiced my views somewhat.

 

[ernesto]

Have you DR set to 400? DR will affect max shutter speed and limits it to 1/1000 in worst case.

Why were you using F2 on a sunny day?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

On all previous cameras I have shot raw..

However on the X10, You then miss out on the automatic magic ingredients.
Ca removal
Fringe removal.
Distortion correction.
the ability of the in-camera processing to limit noise at remarkably high iso levels.

Raw processors in Lightroom and photoshop do not yet have auto profiles for this camera ( if they ever do) so the amount of effort is self defeating.

I have found it very hard indeed to better the Jpeg results, though I do convert then to tiff or dng for working in photoshop. Too many saves in jpeg format is a horrible problem area.

I think the quality of the Jpeg straight from the camera is outstanding, it is a pity the direct raw conversion does not pick up the in camera settings . Though Lightroom can extract a surprising amount from the shadows and highlights of the jpeg, and adjust the over all tone.

 

[Phall82]

What are you implificating?

Oh, nothing.... Must just be a coincidence

 

[allanm]

On all previous cameras I have shot raw..

However on the X10, You then miss out on the automatic magic ingredients.
Ca removal
Fringe removal.
Distortion correction.
the ability of the in-camera processing to limit noise at remarkably high iso levels.

Raw processors in Lightroom and photoshop do not yet have auto profiles for this camera ( if they ever do) so the amount of effort is self defeating.

I have found it very hard indeed to better the Jpeg results, though I do convert then to tiff or dng for working in photoshop. Too many saves in jpeg format is a horrible problem area.

I think the quality of the Jpeg straight from the camera is outstanding, it is a pity the direct raw conversion does not pick up the in camera settings . Though Lightroom can extract a surprising amount from the shadows and highlights of the jpeg, and adjust the over all tone.

I very rarely use raw. Like you, I discovered the jpegs to be superb and I would prefer not to spend hours fiddling around with raw files when I could be doing something else.. .

Allan

 

[crusher]

I am starting to feel the X10 was not meant for me either

I started to feel like this as well, but on reflection I think I was trying to use it the same way I use my D3 & D300. Now I've finally got it through my thick skull that it's not a DSLR, I'm definitely going to hang on to it. Here a a few shots taken with the camera recently, which I'm pleased with. I shoot in JPEG, usually in Aperture priority mode. I find that Aperture (and the odd Apple App) are perfectly fine for the processing I do.


Boat at Bosham 2 by Keith Burton, on Flickr


Boat at Bosham by Keith Burton, on Flickr


Exmouth Festival 2012 by Keith Burton, on Flickr


Patriotic by Keith Burton, on Flickr


Flaking paint by Keith Burton, on Flickr


Signs of the past by Keith Burton, on Flickr

 

[DayDreamer]

Have you DR set to 400? DR will affect max shutter speed and limits it to 1/1000 in worst case.

Why were you using F2 on a sunny day?

DR is Auto and F2 on sunny days to try and get backgounds out of focus.

 

[DayDreamer]

I started to feel like this as well, but on reflection I think I was trying to use it the same way I use my D3 & D300. Now I've finally got it through my thick skull that it's not a DSLR, I'm definitely going to hang on to it. Here a a few shots taken with the camera recently, which I'm pleased with. I shoot in JPEG, usually in Aperture priority mode. I find that Aperture (and the odd Apple App) are perfectly fine for the processing I do.

I think I am going mad. You have some good shots there and I am especially intrigued by the girl which is f/4.5 but with good out of focus background and I was thinking I needed to be right down to f2. Am I going mad :nuts:

 

[DuncanDisorderly]

I think I am going mad. You have some good shots there and I am especially intrigued by the girl which is f/4.5 but with good out of focus background and I was thinking I needed to be right down to f2. Am I going mad :nuts:

Long end of the lens with a fairly close subject...
f2 would make the background even more out of focus.

 

[DayDreamer]

Long end of the lens with a fairly close subject...
f2 would make the background even more out of focus.

Yes quite and what I was saying in my 18.22 post.

I just wish I could stop forgetting all I know and have been learning from the X10 handbook. My brain is not working well in the past month or so which is making me get overly frustrated.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

As people on here seem to get on well with DSCL for colour printing.

I converted a set (63) from lightroom to a size that would fit on 6x4 paper and fired them off yesterday they arrive back this morning.
They had re sized them to cut off the tops and bottoms to fill the entire 6x4 area. The camera takes a slightly squarer picture, I had resized them to 1600x1200 rather than 6x4 1800x1200 expecting to get a white strip at one side as I have done from other labs in the past .

The prints were certainly bright as (as well as cropped) they had added an extreme sharpening and added extra clarity, vibrance and saturation, and moved the black point to clip the blacks. some of the colours are so saturated they also, are clipped.

I emailed them about printing on 6x4 paper with out cropping. and they say they can not do so as their printing is totally automated.

So it seems they just add the super brightening and sharpening to all the amateur stuff.
The x10 simply does not need it.

Seems like they are missing a trick somewhere.

 

[ernesto]

DR is Auto and F2 on sunny days to try and get backgounds out of focus.

On small sensor cameras I think the advantage of F2 is for low light situations rather than giving low DoF. It is not the same as an SLR F2 so unless pretty close to subject doesn't do much anyway.

Stand to be corrected but I think that if auto DR was using DR400 then max shutter would be 1/1000 because of the way it combines multiple exposures.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

A bigger consideration using small sensors is the effect of Diffraction.

Using Max Lyons calculators (http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/calc.htm)
You find that the X10 is diffraction limited throughout its focal length range at about F8.6

There is no advantage at all, in terms of sharpness to close down further than this with this number of megapixels.

Indeed there are some advantage in using wider apertures.
It has been pointed out, and shown by example, how very sharp shots taken at F2 appear.
This is especially true in close ups, where the camera excels.

I know the word Diffraction makes many of us turn off and shut down...

But it is worth thinking about when it effects our results so strongly.

 

[DayDreamer]

On small sensor cameras I think the advantage of F2 is for low light situations rather than giving low DoF. It is not the same as an SLR F2 so unless pretty close to subject doesn't do much anyway.

Stand to be corrected but I think that if auto DR was using DR400 then max shutter would be 1/1000 because of the way it combines multiple exposures.

When I was looking at high end compacts I read one review where it said the DOF that could be achieved with the X10 was as good as a DSLR with a standard kit lens. But where of where did I read that? I did find similar being said of the Olympus XZ-1 as per link here
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/OlympusXZ1

I will take a look at the auto DR and do a bit of experimenting.

Thanks for the input as it is getting me thinking

 

[ernesto]

I think that review was a bit misleading/optimistic as it is not my experience.
The physics also don't agree - don't know the calculation but F2 on X10 sensor size is equivalent to F7 on APSC or something like that. Most Kit lens are 3.5 - 5.6 so still going to give lower DoF than X10. Put an F2 on the DSLR and in a different world of low DoF obviously.

 

[DuncanDisorderly]

Aperture is only one of the factors.
Lens focal length and distance to the subject are equally important.
To get the shallow DoF 'look' you all three - a big aperture with a long lens and a close subject.

To illustrate my point - here is a set of images all taken on a full frame sensor on a 50mm at f1.4.

When the subject is further away from the camera, you get a lot more DoF.
These look 'normal', but are still f1.4.

At middle distances, the shallow Dof starts to show.
These are f1.4, but I'd fully expect my X10 to be able to emulate these if I used the longest focal length and biggest aperture (118mm f2.8).

When you get closer to the camera extreme DoF magic starts to happen.
This is the only image in this set I'd not expect to be able to replicate on the X10.

In summary...
To get a shallow depth of field on the X10, you need a big aperture AND a long focal length AND a close subject.
Where the X10 gets its good reputation is that very few compacts will do f2.8 at the long end of the lens.

Hope that helped - Duncan

 

[Blank_Canvas]

Fare-thee-well

I'm off to sea for four-six months and will be taking my X10 with me. I'll try and pop in every so often but the internet connections can be a bit hit or miss or sometimes turned off for operational reasons. It's a perfect little camera, light and doesn't take up valuable space onboard but gives me all the creativity that I need. See you soon - Nick

 

[DuncanDisorderly]

Fare-thee-well

Have a safe journey
And give that X10 some abuse

 

[JohnL]

Aperture is only one of the factors.
Lens focal length and distance to the subject are equally important.

(My bold)

Is that the issue with the X10, not the small sensor size but the small focal length? You can't get the same effect, as you're not shooting a 112mm f2.8 lens, it's a 28.4mm f2.8 lens.

I can't see what difference the sensor size makes once you are looking at actual focal length.

Is that correct? Or does the sensor size make a difference? And if so how!?!

John

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Passing a cottage this afternoon and saw this. If I had waited till I had a dslr with me they would have cut the grass....

Quite a heavy crop as I could not invade their garden.

 

[DuncanDisorderly]

(My bold)

Is that the issue with the X10, not the small sensor size but the small focal length? You can't get the same effect, as you're not shooting a 112mm f2.8 lens, it's a 28.4mm f2.8 lens.

I can't see what difference the sensor size makes once you are looking at actual focal length.

Is that correct? Or does the sensor size make a difference? And if so how!?!

John

You are right!
I'd forgotten the long end of the Fuji is actually 28.4mm :bonk:
I also agree that having a bigger sensor just means ending up with a wider field of view.

However - my point still stands.
A longer lens will produce a shallower DoF, hence use the long end of the X10's zoom.
Using the wide end of the X10 will result in plenty of DoF.

 

[DuncanDisorderly]

Cough....
I host all the images I've posted into this thread on my own website, and I've just been looking at my statistics.

The images in the first few pages of this thread are in a separate gallery (my initial impressions gallery), which means I can tell when people are reading the whole thread as opposed to just reading the recent stuff. In the last month I've had 9934 image views from images my X10 Initial gallery!!!!!

After that it gets a bit unclear as mos of my posted images are in a big bucket labelled TP.
However, the shocking statistic is during the last month my website has had 46847 image referrals from Talk Photography!!!!!

The balance between the X10 Initial referrals and my grand total kinda indicates there are still a lot of people reading this thread from end to end :|

Now here's another interesting snippet....
In the last month there are an additional 602 referrals from Google Translate - a quick review shows all of them picking up images for the translated X10 thread!!!

Which ever way you spin those numbers, there is a LOT of people reading this thread.:|:|
WAY more than posting into it

 

[ChrisR]

Cough....
I host all the images I've posted into this thread on my own website, and I've just been looking at my statistics.

The images in the first few pages of this thread are in a separate gallery (my initial impressions gallery), which means I can tell when people are reading the whole thread as opposed to just reading the recent stuff. In the last month I've had 9934 image views from images my X10 Initial gallery!!!!!

After that it gets a bit unclear as mos of my posted images are in a big bucket labelled TP.
However, the shocking statistic is during the last month my website has had 46847 image referrals from Talk Photography!!!!!

The balance between the X10 Initial referrals and my grand total kinda indicates there are still a lot of people reading this thread from end to end :|

Now here's another interesting snippet....
In the last month there are an additional 602 referrals from Google Translate - a quick review shows all of them picking up images for the translated X10 thread!!!

Which ever way you spin those numbers, there is a LOT of people reading this thread.:|:|
WAY more than posting into it

These numbers are very impressive, Duncan. I don't really want to spoil the party, but I think there are a couple of factors related to the TP underlying software implementation, that have rather boosted these numbers.

First, your images are presumably "viewed" each time someone reads the particular thread page on which they appear. Since any arbitrary page is "active" for at least several days, and contains many different posts, any one person may well open that thread page (and hence view the images therein) many times.

Second, while the vbulletin software provides an option to go straight to the last page of the thread, this takes you to the top post on the page each time, and you have to scroll down. I prefer to load the first page of the thread, and then click on the "first unread" button that takes me right to the first post I haven't read (yeah, d'uh!). I think that means I "view" your images on the first page pretty much each time I come back to the thread.

All that said, the numbers are still pretty impressive! (BTW I may be wrong... I don't know how to check in mid-post, but I had a feeling that the views on my own images in the TP Gallery are fewer than this analysis might suggest... I guess for any images it might depend on whether they are near the beginning or the end of the thread page...)

 

[DuncanDisorderly]

Ah - that would explain the high count of the first images!
I use the direct link on the Subscribed Threads page.

A factor counting in the other direction is caching by the browser.
I can see my images are getting cached by my browser; they should only be reloaded occasionally and shouldn't count in the stats (not confirmed).

 

[ChrisR]

Ah - that would explain the high count of the first images!
I use the direct link on the Subscribed Threads page.

A factor counting in the other direction is caching by the browser.
I can see my images are getting cached by my browser; they should only be reloaded occasionally and shouldn't count in the stats (not confirmed).

Aha, I didn't know about the "subscribed thread" thing. Odd how you find something that works and stick with it. Well, I do.

I checked out my images from the TP Gallery, and the three that were included in page 54 of this thread appear to have 1 view each! This kinda mucks up part of my theory, given they are half way down the thread page, unless I further assume that the Gallery views are only incremented when someone visits the Gallery directly..

 

[DuncanDisorderly]

Is that the TP gallery?
That may only count 'real' views in the gallery, whereas mine are hosted on Smugmug and referrals to the image counts as a view.