The next step???

redmonkee

redmonkee

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PHILIP
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Hi guys, just been evaluating my work over the season and feel that my standard has slowly improved with each game i've shot down at Farsley.

Now i'm wondering where do I go with my photography. I'd like to get work for an agency but do you think I need more practice to improve further or are my images of a good enough standard to try and apply for an agency.

I've shot in all weather and lighting conditions bar snow (and I would have done had the games not been called off :lol:) so i could put a decent portfolio together to demonstrate this. Here's my season collection so far on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philcarverphotography/collections/72157624741635033/

If you were in my position would you spend another season with Farsley honing my technique or should I bite the bullet and try and apply for an agency role, and if so how on earth do I go about it?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated :thumbs:
 
I think your skill is good enough, but it depends what you want to do..seems to be like your focusing soley on football?
do you want to make money or for a hobby?
 
photobeef said:
I think your skill is good enough, but it depends what you want to do..seems to be like your focusing soley on football?
do you want to make money or for a hobby?
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Id like to have a crack at seeing if I can make money out of my images, it'd sure be nice to try and pay some of the kit off :D

I have covered other sports though mainly junior level. Here's the rest of what i've done.
http://www.philcarverphotography.com/portfolio98494.html

Though the Cricket and Rugby were when I was first starting out.
 
Whilst football is the bread and butter for most agencies you need to be able to cover pretty much any sport, certainly Cricket, Rugby League and Union, then other sports like tennis, golf, cycling etc.

Over the past year you have improved a hell of a lot at getting the action shots from games, now you need to work on getting the "different" shots. Its one of the main points i have had when getting feedback back on my portfolio.

As Chris says, are you wanting to do it purely as a hobby or do you want to progress and earn money from it.

Its a massive step up from going to a game shoot for 90 minutes then home have your tea and edit the shots. You'll need to be able to shoot/edit/caption/wire all at the same time.
 
Exactly what Andy said. Would try and approach agencys that shoot primarily football ( small ones) and take it from there, see what they say. You need to be flexible and willing to travel, we cant all shoot at Man United or Liverpool!
You have the skill, but taking the photos is only half the job.
Its usually a 3hour match, 1.5 hours before KO to get a spot, 90min match,then 30mins after to wire, plus the journey to and from. Its a whole day affair, and in the end you may not see anything from it..
But thats the challenge and sometimes it pays off..
 
Rovers_Andy said:
Whilst football is the bread and butter for most agencies you need to be able to cover pretty much any sport, certainly Cricket, Rugby League and Union, then other sports like tennis, golf, cycling etc.

Over the past year you have improved a hell of a lot at getting the action shots from games, now you need to work on getting the "different" shots. Its one of the main points i have had when getting feedback back on my portfolio.

As Chris says, are you wanting to do it purely as a hobby or do you want to progress and earn money from it.

Its a massive step up from going to a game shoot for 90 minutes then home have your tea and edit the shots. You'll need to be able to shoot/edit/caption/wire all at the same time.
Click to expand...

Hi Andy

I appreciate i'm not even half way there yet, as I have still to nail the editing and then comes the wiring and captioning, so that is something I plan to work on. I'm thinking of getting a laptop for nex season and practice 'Live' wiring down at Farsley.

What i'd like to know is what you regard as the 'differen' shots. And also do these get used by agencies as most of the images I see in the papers are goals and celebrations. I bet you get loads of great action shots that never see the light of day :shrug:
 
photobeef said:
Exactly what Andy said. Would try and approach agencys that shoot primarily football ( small ones) and take it from there, see what they say. You need to be flexible and willing to travel, we cant all shoot at Man United or Liverpool!
You have the skill, but taking the photos is only half the job.
Its usually a 3hour match, 1.5 hours before KO to get a spot, 90min match,then 30mins after to wire, plus the journey to and from. Its a whole day affair, and in the end you may not see anything from it..
But thats the challenge and sometimes it pays off..
Click to expand...

100% agree Chris, and time will tell if i'm up for the challenge.
 
If you dont have a laptop and dont know how to caption & wire live images then I would recommend mastering that before contacting any agencies.
 
jamesb84 said:
Phil,

It depends on the level you're looking at really. I gave feedback to Andy regarding his folio, because the level he's probably looking at stepping up to will require him to "think differently" and produce something that other guys (or guys at his current level) won't think of.

For you, I'd say that if you have those "different" shots it's a definite bonus, if not, then if you can show your ability for action you should be OK.

Definitely get a laptop and practice wiring...not just the wiring, but the processing/adjusting, captioning (accurate captions) and wiring...
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Cheers James. Would still like to know what you think the different shots are, I know its a general question but some examples would be much appreciated :thumbs:

Also with regards to Laptops would this do for basic editing and captioning using LR.
http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook?mco=MTM3NjU3MDM
 
redmonkee said:
Cheers James. Would still like to know what you think the different shots are, I know its a general question but some examples would be much appreciated :thumbs:
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anyhting quirky or out the ordinary

you start by getting standard football shots.. then you prgress to action.. then peak action then important action then out the ordinary..

could be anything from a close up of a manager ranting with spit flying from his mouth or a painted up fan or a shot from a stupidly different angle with good shadows..

crowd shots are easy... but a couple of weeks ago I got paid a very big compliment from a picture editor.. i had seen a child 4 yrs old wrapped in accy stanley scarf and hat led accross two chairs asleep.. accy fans are well known for none stop noise and drum banging.. i took a picture and its OK .. but thought.. if accy score then ..

sure enough accy scored and instead of going for the player cele first i swung toi the accy fans.. got a tight bunch of them leaping in the air arms out and the drummer at the front and a perfect pic of the child fast asleep.. just see face popping out of scarf.... the paper ran the pic the day after the match report as a seperate thing.. and this is what the pic editor said

Tony
A great set of pictures, as usual. But I thought the picture of the kid
asleep on the seat was a great spot. We are using it in tomorrow's paper.
I've shown it to everyone else in the dept as a classic example of looking
for pictures other than on the field.
Thanks again
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thats a gods honest exact quote.. made my day :)
 
watch for a red sky at night/evening.. go fiind a good spot for a full ground pic with red sky.. always a winner
 
one of my faveroute shots was by a photogrpaher i ahve always and still aspire to... a cricket players sunglasses reflecting a perfect pic of the cricket field in action... superb :)
 
Reading this thread hs given me a few ideas. I don't think I'll ever consider taking the next step, but I love learning bits and pieces about how other people look at the surroundings.

A lot to think about. :D
 
Some really good tips and info here :)

KIPAX said:
one of my faveroute shots was by a photogrpaher i ahve always and still aspire to... a cricket players sunglasses reflecting a perfect pic of the cricket field in action... superb :)
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Always wanted to get one of these! I think Tobers has shot a few of these at Sevens matches, and this one caught my eye recently (about a third of the way down). I definitely need to concentrate more on off-the-ball moments around in the crowd or sidelines.
 
PatrickK said:
Some really good tips and info here :)



Always wanted to get one of these! I think Tobers has shot a few of these at Sevens matches, and this one caught my eye recently (about a third of the way down). I definitely need to concentrate more on off-the-ball moments around in the crowd or sidelines.
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Must admit i always like those images, i usually see them in cycling or Grand Prix portfolios though.
 
you've got good action shots which is great but like everyone else says look for something else, those different shots. there is more to what you just see in the newspapers, they aren't the only outlet for sports photography. football is not just a sport it is a culture, take a look around you on a saturday at the ground and there are interesting shots to be had everywhere. why not shoot from up in the stands? who says that the best pictures are taken pitch side? hook up a remote somewhere interesting, take a walk around the ground during the game - especially at the smaller grounds there are some great pictures to be taken.
 
redmonkee said:
Hi Andy

I appreciate i'm not even half way there yet, as I have still to nail the editing and then comes the wiring and captioning, so that is something I plan to work on. I'm thinking of getting a laptop for nex season and practice 'Live' wiring down at Farsley.

What i'd like to know is what you regard as the 'differen' shots. And also do these get used by agencies as most of the images I see in the papers are goals and celebrations. I bet you get loads of great action shots that never see the light of day :shrug:
Click to expand...

Send me a PM with your email address and i'll send you my current portfolio :)
 
Rovers_Andy said:
Send me a PM with your email address and i'll send you my current portfolio :)
Click to expand...

Andy I've had a look through your portfolio and there's some cracking shots in there:thumbs:

It does look better when you have Premier League games to include in your folio, not quite the same when the best I can hope for is Farsley :shrug:
 
redmonkee said:
Andy I've had a look through your portfolio and there's some cracking shots in there:thumbs:

It does look better when you have Premier League games to include in your folio, not quite the same when the best I can hope for is Farsley :shrug:
Click to expand...

why do you say that? yeah premier league is great but just because it is carlos tevez instead of joe bloggs doesn't mean it is a better photograph. like i said it's not just about action, non league football provides you with a variety of things you could shoot. why not focus on a photo essay one game showing the whole story of local football? players putting the nets up themselves? the tea lady? to me those images are more interesting and make you a better photographer than just using the cameras 10fps and amazing autofocus! these are the pictures that will make you stand out when approaching an agency rather than just being the same as the next guy applying
 
kieranmcmanus said:
why do you say that? yeah premier league is great but just because it is carlos tevez instead of joe bloggs doesn't mean it is a better photograph. like i said it's not just about action, non league football provides you with a variety of things you could shoot. why not focus on a photo essay one game showing the whole story of local football? players putting the nets up themselves? the tea lady? to me those images are more interesting and make you a better photographer than just using the cameras 10fps and amazing autofocus! these are the pictures that will make you stand out when approaching an agency rather than just being the same as the next guy applying
Click to expand...

Well put :thumbs:
Think I may need to try another approach in some games. :thumbs:
 
kieranmcmanus said:
why do you say that? yeah premier league is great but just because it is carlos tevez instead of joe bloggs doesn't mean it is a better photograph. like i said it's not just about action, non league football provides you with a variety of things you could shoot. why not focus on a photo essay one game showing the whole story of local football? players putting the nets up themselves? the tea lady? to me those images are more interesting and make you a better photographer than just using the cameras 10fps and amazing autofocus! these are the pictures that will make you stand out when approaching an agency rather than just being the same as the next guy applying
Click to expand...

Got to agree with Kieran here, its good to have some PL stuff but only because the backgrounds are usually cleaner and it shows you have shot at that level.

I would have a look through the full set that of Kierans that James linked to on the guardian website. Plenty of ideas there :thumbs:
 
just out of interest what type/how many images do you all put in your follio?
 
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I Havent got a portfolio.. I never had a portfolio..
 
Although I will have a prem licence for next season (got more than enouhg now) and running as a sports agency... and I will be taking on sports photogrpahers so I will be looking at peoples portfolios hahaha :)

But I will only be using people who have already covered premiership games..
 
KIPAX said:
Although I will have a prem licence for next season (got more than enouhg now) and running as a sports agency... and I will be taking on sports photogrpahers so I will be looking at peoples portfolios hahaha :)

But I will only be using people who have already covered premiership games..
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Thats a good idea now youve got the license :)
 
photobeef said:
Thats a good idea now youve got the license :)
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well you auto become an agency thats what the licence is... but i didnt want to do it first season.. want to find my feet.. sort out what to do with national papers blah blah also may as well wait for the prem licence then do it proper..
 
photobeef said:
what do you use?cele's /action/random
do you keep a hard copy or just files?
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3 football celes, 1 cricket cele, 4 football action, 2 rugby action, 1 cricket action, 4 "different"

Electronic copy at the moment but will be getting it printed and bound for sending to agencies
 
KIPAX said:
Although I will have a prem licence for next season (got more than enouhg now) and running as a sports agency... and I will be taking on sports photogrpahers so I will be looking at peoples portfolios hahaha :)

But I will only be using people who have already covered premiership games..
Click to expand...

Well you've seen mine already:naughty:;)
 
Rovers_Andy said:
Well you've seen mine already:naughty:;)
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you have 2 agencies but you would go straight on mine if ya wanted pal.. but i wont poach from other agencies... i would offer the same 70/30 in togs favour..the only difference with me would be you get paid same week published.. none of this waiting 2 months for me to get paid then you..

its also not so much about portfolios.. its more the person and if they are gonna screw it up for me at a match.. on my licence there at a game in my name... so i know your top drawer andy.. but i wouldnt put a newbie on because i dont know what they would do.. harsh but i have to look after my licence..
 
KIPAX said:
you have 2 agencies but you would go straight on mine if ya wanted pal.. but i wont poach from other agencies... i would offer the same 70/30 in togs favour..the only difference with me would be you get paid same week published.. none of this waiting 2 months for me to get paid then you..

its also not so much about portfolios.. its more the person and if they are gonna screw it up for me at a match.. on my licence there at a game in my name... so i know your top drawer andy.. but i wouldnt put a newbie on because i dont know what they would do.. harsh but i have to look after my licence..
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One at the moment and good chance of being taken on for next season with another but i'd be happy to cover games for you :) will give you a ring
 
Good luck, Andy.

I'm in no position to offer any advice, but your Flickr account is very impressive. I tend to only get 5-10 shots per game at anywhere near that quality.
 
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