The new Sony A9 - What are your thoughts

[twist]

Nikon does have a lead like you say but I don't think anyone likes using their D-Pad that is worse than what I had on a Saga Mastersystem 1 in the mid 1980`s.

Anyone except Nikon users.

 

[GTG]

Anyone except Nikon users.

They put up with it for the better noise performance, who doesn't want a joystick to change AF points. Its way superior which is why they are on pro DSLR`s

 

[Craig_85]

It looks a staggeringly good camera.

The full frame autofocus point coverage, the speed of the on sensor processing and the 20fps with no viewfinder blackout make it a sports weapon.

When Sony catch up with lens options I can see this becoming more popular. Although there is an element with technology that is not about popularity or sales figures even, its about achieving things for the future, and in certain ways this camera looks like it really moves things forward.

 

[Faldrax]

...I, like many others, also need a viewfinder that shows me what is happening now - not a moment ago. The viewfinder, eye, brain, index finger connection is already too slow with an optical viewfinder - so an EVF is hardly going to help!...

I believe the 'lag' on the A9 EVF is very small indeed, But there is no mirror blackout - no interruption to the view of your subject as you take each shot.

I've not personally had a chance to try one myself, but a common theme of the reviews I have read / watched is that you only realise how much the view with a DSLR is affected by the mirror blackout when you start to use an A9 - and then you really notice it when you switch back to a DSLR.

 

[Riz_Guru]

I believe the 'lag' on the A9 EVF is very small indeed, But there is no mirror blackout - no interruption to the view of your subject as you take each shot.

I've not personally had a chance to try one myself, but a common theme of the reviews I have read / watched is that you only realise how much the view with a DSLR is affected by the mirror blackout when you start to use an A9 - and then you really notice it when you switch back to a DSLR.

I thought the EVF of the Fuji XT-2 was good, I believe both the XT-2 and A9 use 120fps for the EVF which to my eye has no lag at all.
The A9's no black out at 20fps has to been seen in person to see how much difference it makes..... absolutely epic.

 

[Craig_85]

I thought the EVF of the Fuji XT-2 was good, I believe both the XT-2 and A9 use 120fps for the EVF which to my eye has no lag at all.
The A9's no black out at 20fps has to been seen in person to see how much difference it makes..... absolutely epic.

I read it drops to a refresh rate of 60fps at 20fps shooting. It must be a weird experience whilst in silent shutter mode? As in I'd miss the machine gun in some respects, presumable in non silent shutter there is a re assuring chatter noise?

 

[Riz_Guru]

I read it drops to a refresh rate of 60fps at 20fps shooting. It must be a weird experience whilst in silent shutter mode? As in I'd miss the machine gun in some respects, presumable in non silent shutter there is a re assuring chatter noise?

I tried out the Sony A9 in the full-beans 20fps mode and even at 60fps EVF I looks perfect... I guess the no black out helps as your so busy focusing on the object you probably don't notice any EVF issues?
You can set the camera so it plays a shutter sound via the speaker so it sounds just like a fast machine gut with a muffler on it ---- lol
In the normal mechanical shutter its a nice shutter sound, I believe its the same as the A7RII shutter rated to 500,000 clicks.

 

[redhed17]

I thought the EVF of the Fuji XT-2 was good, I believe both the XT-2 and A9 use 120fps for the EVF which to my eye has no lag at all.
The A9's no black out at 20fps has to been seen in person to see how much difference it makes..... absolutely epic.

No doubt that the EVFs are getting better, but there will always be some delay as the image has to `seen/recorded' by the sensor and then replayed by the LCD. An OVF is real life, an EVF is a video of real life. [emoji6] I think only by trying will an individual know if it is for them or not. [emoji5]

 

[Riz_Guru]

No doubt that the EVFs are getting better, but there will always be some delay as the image has to `seen/recorded' by the sensor and then replayed by the LCD. An OVF is real life, an EVF is a video of real life. [emoji6] I think only by trying will an individual know if it is for them or not. [emoji5]

Correct, when the original A7 came out I went from a Nikon D7000 with OVF to EVF and it worked for me, I friend of mine was in the same position as me but couldn't get on with EVF so stuck with Nikon for many years after.
He has recently got a Fuji XT-2 and he's now happy with the EVF.

 

[woof woof]

No doubt that the EVFs are getting better, but there will always be some delay as the image has to `seen/recorded' by the sensor and then replayed by the LCD. An OVF is real life, an EVF is a video of real life. [emoji6] I think only by trying will an individual know if it is for them or not. [emoji5]

I wonder how fast the eye/brain is? I read somewhere that evf lag in the best systems just isn't a factor these days. After using CSC's for years I honestly don't think it's an issue, at all.

 

[twist]

They put up with it for the better noise performance, who doesn't want a joystick to change AF points. Its way superior which is why they are on pro DSLR`s

I've never really heard any Nikon shooters complain about it as much as you, as a Canon shooter you obviously know though. How do you Canon boys deal with the lack of the upper rear control dial is the real question that spinny wheel is so odd.

 

[Riz_Guru]

I've never really heard any Nikon shooters complain about it as much as you, as a Canon shooter you obviously know though. How do you Canon boys deal with the lack of the upper rear control dial is the real question that spinny wheel is so odd.

Here's my view on the dials situation.... with my old Sony A7RII I quite happily changed the ISO via the command toggle wheels, I have the Fuji XT-2 and yes it has a dedicated ISO wheels but either method works for me... I don't find that having dedicated ISO dial over the ISO toggle dial any quicker to use in practice, you just adapt to the camera's physical controls.

 

[johnf3f]

I believe the 'lag' on the A9 EVF is very small indeed, But there is no mirror blackout - no interruption to the view of your subject as you take each shot.

I've not personally had a chance to try one myself, but a common theme of the reviews I have read / watched is that you only realise how much the view with a DSLR is affected by the mirror blackout when you start to use an A9 - and then you really notice it when you switch back to a DSLR.

Fair point I should have considered that as well, my bad! I am sure the EVF on the A9 will be one of, if not, the best going but I have been very disappointed in the EVF';s that I have used so far - I will have to wait and see.....

 

[Riz_Guru]

Fair point I should have considered that as well, my bad! I am sure the EVF on the A9 will be one of, if not, the best going but I have been very disappointed in the EVF';s that I have used so far - I will have to wait and see.....

No need to wait..... get yourself down to a local camera store and try it out.... its mind boggling good......

 

[woof woof]

Fair point I should have considered that as well, my bad! I am sure the EVF on the A9 will be one of, if not, the best going but I have been very disappointed in the EVF';s that I have used so far - I will have to wait and see.....

What have you used so far?
I have an A7 and I'd describe it as very good but the best I've had so far was on a Panasonic G7 but I wonder how many people go into the menu and tweak the display for best effect? Even though I owned the A7 and G7 at the same time I couldn't be bothered fiddling with the A7 to see if it could match what I saw when using the G7.

 

[GTG]

I've never really heard any Nikon shooters complain about it as much as you, as a Canon shooter you obviously know though. How do you Canon boys deal with the lack of the upper rear control dial is the real question that spinny wheel is so odd.

I have owned 5 of each. Nikon d300, d90, d5500, d700, d7000. Canon 40d, 550d, 6d, 7d, 1d mk3.
The d90, not even hardened Nikon fanboy`s would say the d90 has anything other than an incredibly spongy and vague dpad.

 

[Faldrax]

Fair point I should have considered that as well, my bad! I am sure the EVF on the A9 will be one of, if not, the best going but I have been very disappointed in the EVF';s that I have used so far - I will have to wait and see.....

They have progressed dramatically over the last few years.

I currently use a Sony A900, which has a lovely 100% OVF, big and bright.

The first 'serious' EVF I tried was the Sony A77 - didn't like it.
Tried the A99 - better, but still felt 'separated' from the scene
Bought an A6000 as a 'travel' camera, and accepted it would be a bit 'artificial' but this was compensated for my the added EVF functionality - happy with it for a secondary camera
Tried the A99II - better again than the A99, only a short, indoors test (10-15 minutes?), but no discernible lag, image looked 'natural' and clear. With the added benefits that an EVF can provide I an confident that I woudl be comfortable using one as my main camera to replace my A900 (when I have the cash to spare!).

The A9 EVF is higher resolution and higher refresh than that in the A99II - and has no blackout.

As others have said, it's something you need to try yourself - you may be pleasantly surprised (unless it's so good you buy one on the spur of the moment, then realise it might have an EVF, but is no cheap toy )

 

[twist]

I have owned 5 of each. Nikon d300, d90, d5500, d700, d7000. Canon 40d, 550d, 6d, 7d, 1d mk3.
The d90, not even hardened Nikon fanboy`s would say the d90 has anything other than an incredibly spongy and vague dpad.

Oh so it's your personal opinion on a 9 year old camera, not really the opinion of all Nikon users.

 

[GTG]

Oh so it's your personal opinion on a 9 year old camera, not really the opinion of all Nikon users.

They built cameras better 9 years ago mate. Don't assume they make them better now because they are newer.

 

[twist]

They built cameras better 9 years ago mate. Don't assume they make them better now because they are newer.

But you're saying they didn't because the pad was spongy? I'm not assuming anything.

 

[GTG]

But you're saying they didn't because the pad was spongy? I'm not assuming anything.

In general overall build quality standards have slipped and apparently your the only person who does not know it

 

[twist]

In general overall build quality standards have slipped and apparently your the only person who does not know it

But I thought you were on about the d pad that every Nikon user hates? Now youre talking about build quality which only you brought up. Make up your mind.

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

I love these forums

 

[redhed17]

But I thought you were on about the d pad that every Nikon user hates?

I thought the D70 D-pad felt a bit too tall away from the body, but did not even think about them of the D200, D300, D300S, and now D500. So not every user 'hates' the D-pad.

I've not really used the Joystick in over a year till last weekend, so didn't think the D-Pad was bad, and for me, the Joystick has been of very little benefit.

 

[kendo1]

In general overall build quality standards have slipped and apparently your the only person who does not know it

Weird that. I've used Nikons for about 30 years and haven't noticed.

It doesn't mean your opinion is invalid, just that it is your opinion - a sweeping generalisation unsupported by facts and proof.

 

[twist]

I thought the D70 D-pad felt a bit too tall away from the body, but did not even think about them of the D200, D300, D300S, and now D500. So not every user 'hates' the D-pad.

I've not really used the Joystick in over a year till last weekend, so didn't think the D-Pad was bad, and for me, the Joystick has been of very little benefit.

Exactly, that was my point, guy was generalising. There's nothing wrong with the d pad.

 

[johnf3f]

What have you used so far?.

Err - ALL of them?!?? Let me think - well all of the current "Pro" Nikons, a lot of the non Pro Nikons, Olympus (most models), Sony - all serious ones except the A9, Canon? A1 onwards (own a number of them), lots of Pentax bodies (I like them!)', a few Fujlis, several Leicas (own one), couple of Samsungs, Reid Rangefinder, Mamiya and Bronica Mf and quite a few that I have forgotten about for now.

Basically a wide range of OVF and EVF cameras. I have (yet) to find an EVF that is useful for my, primarily wildlife, photography. Perhaps the A9 is different? But until they have some useful lenses I can't find out!

More than happy/interested to give the A9 a go! I am sure it will be impressive, but with the longest lens being both expensive and 600mm too short, it is a bit of a no go really. Pretty toy but of no use to me. Perhaps a good buy for others?

 

[johnf3f]

No need to wait..... get yourself down to a local camera store and try it out.... its mind boggling good......

How is it at 400/500/600 mm? Note 80%+ of my photography is shot with an 800mm F5.6 L IS, with some from a 100-400 L IS Mk2 and 300 F2.8. I suspect that I may spend my time catching lenses that fall of the front of the camera as they don't fit! Also is the A9 robust enough to be used with these lenses (if the Sony equivalents existed)?

Sorry, I am not "having a go". It is just that it is a very limited use camera that is of no use to me. Now if they knocked a zero or two off the price then with a nice 24-70 (I read the Sony one is pretty good) then great for landscapes/travel etc - but the A7R2 is cheaper and better for this sort of thing. It looks, to me, like Sony have produced another excellent camera (they are very good at this) however it appears to be optimised for sports/wildlife/action shooting - but there are no suitable lenses to put on it! Pity I was hoping that Sony was going to shake up the "Big Boys" but they just don't seem to want to produce lenses! I have no idea why?

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

John

Err - ALL of them?!?? Let me think - well all of the current "Pro" Nikons, a lot of the non Pro Nikons, Olympus (most models), Sony - all serious ones except the A9, Canon? A1 onwards (own a number of them), lots of Pentax bodies (I like them!)', a few Fujlis, several Leicas (own one), couple of Samsungs, Reid Rangefinder, Mamiya and Bronica Mf and quite a few that I have forgotten about for now.

Basically a wide range of OVF and EVF cameras. I have (yet) to find an EVF that is useful for my, primarily wildlife, photography. Perhaps the A9 is different? But until they have some useful lenses I can't find out!

More than happy/interested to give the A9 a go! I am sure it will be impressive, but with the longest lens being both expensive and 600mm too short, it is a bit of a no go really. Pretty toy but of no use to me. Perhaps a good buy for others?

Hi John,do you mostly shoot Canon now ?

 

[johnf3f]

John


Hi John,do you mostly shoot Canon now ?

Yes I do shoot Canon currently. Simply because they offer the best AF that is available now. All systems have their pros and cons - but if the shot is not in focus then all the whizz bang factors mean nothing. So far I have been disappointed with the AF performance of other systems for my, personal, uses.

Remember that my uses/needs are not typical of all photographers - but, for now, the Canon system is the best fit for my uses. This is not "Brand Loyalty" just the current situation as I have experienced it. I am sure it will change in the future - as it has in the past!

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

Yes I do shoot Canon currently. Simply because they offer the best AF that is available now. All systems have their pros and cons - but if the shot is not in focus then all the whizz bang factors mean nothing. So far I have been disappointed with the AF performance of other systems for my, personal, uses.

Remember that my uses/needs are not typical of all photographers - but, for now, the Canon system is the best fit for my uses. This is not "Brand Loyalty" just the current situation as I have experienced it. I am sure it will change in the future - as it has in the past!

Ithanks,is this all canon dlsr's or those released in last couple of years?

 

[Gaz J]

I wonder how fast the eye/brain is? I read somewhere that evf lag in the best systems just isn't a factor these days. After using CSC's for years I honestly don't think it's an issue, at all.

13 milliseconds to see an image according to recent research in the US.

 

[Gaz J]

I've never really heard any Nikon shooters complain about it as much as you, as a Canon shooter you obviously know though. How do you Canon boys deal with the lack of the upper rear control dial is the real question that spinny wheel is so odd.

The spinner wheel is pretty good. Can't think of a faster way to change exposure comp and ISO. Don't need to look where it is, falls in the right place for my thumb. The set up on the 6D I had was mediocre in comparison.

 

[twist]

The spinner wheel is pretty good. Can't think of a faster way to change exposure comp and ISO. Don't need to look where it is, falls in the right place for my thumb. The set up on the 6D I had was mediocre in comparison.

I can see how for some it may work, but for me and probably other Nikon shooters it feels weird. That's why we buy the brand's we buy.

I never find that I need to change iso fast or at all with auto iso, for me it's a secondary thing. Same with exposure comp although it's right by my shutter release.

 

[Gaz J]

I don't shoot in auto ISO. I know you can set limits but it doesn't seem to work for me. I use exposure comp a lot.

It's what you get used to and I'm sure that I would pick up other brands set ups after a few weeks use.

Probably like many I try and make use of the customisation controls to set the camera up so that I don't have to take it from my eye to make changes. My impressions of Nikons set up comes from people I know who seem to find it a major issue finding anything in the menu and when I ask them is this or that possible they never seem to know.

 

[twist]

I don't shoot in auto ISO. I know you can set limits but it doesn't seem to work for me. I use exposure comp a lot.

It's what you get used to and I'm sure that I would pick up other brands set ups after a few weeks use.

Probably like many I try and make use of the customisation controls to set the camera up so that I don't have to take it from my eye to make changes. My impressions of Nikons set up comes from people I know who seem to find it a major issue finding anything in the menu and when I ask them is this or that possible they never seem to know.

Yeah, I also customise so I don't need menus, if people can't find things in menus it's not a big deal they just need to familiarise themselves with their gear. Nikon menu system is no worse than Canon, I've used pretty much all the brand's as I used to switch a lot.

 

[woof woof]

I have (yet) to find an EVF that is useful for my, primarily wildlife, photography. Perhaps the A9 is different? But until they have some useful lenses I can't find out!

More than happy/interested to give the A9 a go! I am sure it will be impressive, but with the longest lens being both expensive and 600mm too short, it is a bit of a no go really. Pretty toy but of no use to me. Perhaps a good buy for others?

On prices, you do realise that an A9 and whatever Sony lens you buy will be cheaper than the Canikon alternative?

Complaining about Sony prices seems to be a continuing theme on forums and I don't understand why people think that although Sony and the competition are about the same price or sometimes in the case of the A9 the Sony is cheaper than the competition the Sony kit should be £850 or maybe even the price of a mid range DVD player. It's a mindset I don't understand as are the references to computers and/or toys.

I have a technical background but I also have an artistic side and before I picked up a camera I was drawing and painting so maybe my ability to deal with tech and my ability to visualise made it easy for me to transition to EVF's. Having said that I'm also extremely picky but I still find EVF's more than good enough and indeed even the relatively poor ones are preferable to some of the optical systems I've used... compact cameras, RF's, SLR's and DSLR's... I'd take the evf equipped cameras I have now over them all. Big. Bright. 100% coverage. Lovely!

John. I don't think these cameras are for you so maybe you should just forget them and come back in a few years time, probably when Canon or Nikon, if they're still in business, have one and if they do I think you might like it especially if it looks and feels like a DSLR.

 

[woof woof]

Sorry, I am not "having a go". It is just that it is a very limited use camera that is of no use to me. Now if they knocked a zero or two off the price then with a nice 24-70 (I read the Sony one is pretty good) then great for landscapes/travel etc - but the A7R2 is cheaper and better for this sort of thing. It looks, to me, like Sony have produced another excellent camera (they are very good at this) however it appears to be optimised for sports/wildlife/action shooting - but there are no suitable lenses to put on it! Pity I was hoping that Sony was going to shake up the "Big Boys" but they just don't seem to want to produce lenses! I have no idea why?

John, you have specific needs and you have trouble seeing past them. That's putting it kindly. The rest of your comments about toys and prices and no lenses are just nonsense so... I'm out

 

[twist]

On prices, you do realise that an A9 and whatever Sony lens you buy will be cheaper than the Canikon alternative?

Complaining about Sony prices seems to be a continuing theme on forums and I don't understand why people think that although Sony and the competition are about the same price or sometimes in the case of the A9 the Sony is cheaper than the competition the Sony kit should be £850 or maybe even the price of a mid range DVD player. It's a mindset I don't understand as are the references to computers and/or toys.

I have a technical background but I also have an artistic side and before I picked up a camera I was drawing and painting so maybe my ability to deal with tech and my ability to visualise made it easy for me to transition to EVF's. Having said that I'm also extremely picky but I still find EVF's more than good enough and indeed even the relatively poor one are preferable to some of the optical systems I've used... compact cameras, RF's, SLR's and DSLR's... I'd take the evf equipped cameras I have now over them all.

John. I don't think these cameras are for you so maybe you should just forget them and come back in a few years time, probably when Canon or Nikon, if they're still in business, have one and if they do I think you might like it especially if it looks and feels like a DSLR.

Really? A 1dxii and 70200 is 6600, d5 and 70200 is 6675, the Sony a9 and 70200 is 7000. So the others are cheaper but that doesn't mean I think the a9 setup is hideously overpriced.

They all have their place, imo the a9 tech and spec should've been in the a99ii body. It wouldve appealed to that type of shooter more.

 

[woof woof]

13 milliseconds to see an image according to recent research in the US.

I can't remember where I read this but recently I did read that in consideration of the eye / brain / muscle / finger times which is a lot longer than 13ms EVF lag is now a non issue.

Anyone interested may be able to find something along these lines.