The new Sony A9 - What are your thoughts

Totally agree, realistically an a7rii and lens isn't much smaller than a d750 and same spec lens. Some will always prefer ovf over evf and the comfort of a DSLR, it's comfy because it's bigger. Sony should've made the a9 in a a99ii body imho.

I suppose you could say that the size difference isn't significant.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#567,624,ha,t

But I would say it's significant :D

I suppose you could get into the argument that there's no difference once you fit a 70-200mm f2.8 but the A7 body is always going to be smaller and you have the option of using a compact lens and ending up with a combination that the Nikon just can't slim down too even with a lens cap type lens.
 
What do you mean new? Would you like it to make toast? Dslrs are already at the level and have been for years that the a9 has only reached now plus millions of lenses and accessories. Of course the updates appear more incremental but they are still big updates. The d750 got a tilty screen, dual cards, d4 af, Wi-Fi, best 24mp sensor and faster processing, 6.5fps... seriously. What's incremental about that over the d600?!

A top end mirrorless system?
 
I suppose you could say that the size difference isn't significant.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#567,624,ha,t

But I would say it's significant :D

I suppose you could get into the argument that there's no difference once you fit a 70-200mm f2.8 but the A7 body is always going to be smaller and you have the option of using a compact lens and ending up with a combination that the Nikon just can't slim down too even with a lens cap type lens.

You say that I say there's 10mm for different mount. Plus the Nikon has a flash on top. Which the a7 hasn't got and the d750 has a much more comfortable grip for bigger lenses plus a top LCD.

Add the lens and there's still only going to be the flange distance difference, you see the flash head tapers over the top of the mount.

For all those extra features the additional mount length is worth it.
 
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A top end mirrorless system?

But Nikon would be starting from the bottom with a completely new technology so why would they bother? They've already dipped into mirrorless with the J1/5 to test the water, like Canon have with their M series. Massive companies like CaNikon (particularly Nikon) are very risk-averse so while their DSLR's are still selling and are the choice of the majority of Pros, why would they risk that by investing in mirrorless FF when Sony are already getting all the press for theirs?

Look at Fuji, they've skipped FF mirrorless entirely and gone straight for the medium format market because it makes headlines and there's less competition in that area. If they'd brought out a FF system they'd immediately be up against Sony who are more established there.
 
what about the 6d vs 6dmk2.? perfect example of minimal upgrade!

So users who have a 6D now can just stick with their current camera (frightening thought I know ;)) which still works as well as it did before the Mk2 was announced.
 
But Nikon would be starting from the bottom with a completely new technology so why would they bother? They've already dipped into mirrorless with the J1/5 to test the water, like Canon have with their M series. Massive companies like CaNikon (particularly Nikon) are very risk-averse so while their DSLR's are still selling and are the choice of the majority of Pros, why would they risk that by investing in mirrorless FF when Sony are already getting all the press for theirs?

Look at Fuji, they've skipped FF mirrorless entirely and gone straight for the medium format market because it makes headlines and there's less competition in that area. If they'd brought out a FF system they'd immediately be up against Sony who are more established there.

Exactly, they won't get into this market segment now as Sony is way ahead and dominating FF mirrorless.
I guess my point about the DSLR's dying could be backed up with Nikon's current state, its been losing cash for years and what have they done about it? Release silly action camera's! I have sympathy for the Nikon employee's but they didn't move with the market.
Fuji has managed to do really well too.
 
Exactly, they won't get into this market segment now as Sony is way ahead and dominating FF mirrorless.
I guess my point about the DSLR's dying could be backed up with Nikon's current state, its been losing cash for years and what have they done about it? Release silly action camera's! I have sympathy for the Nikon employee's but they didn't move with the market.
Fuji has managed to do really well too.

When I was looking to get my first DSLR everyone said that Canon was way ahead so despite decades with a NIkon SLR I went with a Canon DSLR but it seems that in more recent years Nikon have had a clear lead over Canon and yet Canon have kept their sales lead. I guess there's a loyal customer base there and I think it'll last a long time.
 
Exactly, they won't get into this market segment now as Sony is way ahead and dominating FF mirrorless.
I guess my point about the DSLR's dying could be backed up with Nikon's current state, its been losing cash for years and what have they done about it? Release silly action camera's! I have sympathy for the Nikon employee's but they didn't move with the market.
Fuji has managed to do really well too.

You need to be sensible about things, the market is saturated with canikon gear of course it's going go slow. They've been selling for years and there's a massive amount if used gear due to a consistent mount... people buy used instead of new... that in turn effects their figures. Duh.
 
A lot of photographers use top of the range lenses such as 500/600 f4s on lower spec bodies such as 7DMkII's so to attract those people Sony will need to filter down the specs of the A9 to lower priced bodies which deliver the goods but aren't so good that they take sales away from the premium model.

Will there come a time when it takes over from Canons 1DX MkII and Nikons D5 as the go to camera for sports/wildlife? Maybe but brand investment for many will be the deciding factor for change.

Canon and Nikon have no real incentive in pursuing the mirrorless route but who knows what they have in development. They are perfectly capable of bringing out a competitive mirrorless body if they wanted to. They just don't seem to feel the need for it.
 
Exactly, they won't get into this market segment now as Sony is way ahead and dominating FF mirrorless.
I guess my point about the DSLR's dying could be backed up with Nikon's current state, its been losing cash for years and what have they done about it? Release silly action camera's! I have sympathy for the Nikon employee's but they didn't move with the market.
Fuji has managed to do really well too.

That's like saying that Sony won't invest in a DSLR (how many times have people said the A mount is dead?) because CaNikon are way ahead and dominating. They're two different technologies from different manufacturers so there's no need for one to replace the other.

Nikon, like Canon, Fuji and Sony, make products for numerous markets with cameras being just one of them so they have to decide where to invest their marketing/R&D accordingly. Looking at this market review, the total number of digital cameras being manufactured is declining across the board so all manufacturers will be looking at this when deciding where to put their cash.

http://promuser.com/markets/2017/global-digital-camera-production-report-2014-to-2017
 
Lets see if/how Nikon and Canon respond to the Sony A9, they still have certain advantages along with the more complete lens line-up. :)
 
Exactly, they won't get into this market segment now as Sony is way ahead and dominating FF mirrorless.
I guess my point about the DSLR's dying could be backed up with Nikon's current state, its been losing cash for years and what have they done about it? Release silly action camera's! I have sympathy for the Nikon employee's but they didn't move with the market.
Fuji has managed to do really well too.
Actually it's Sony who are loosing cash in their camera division (rather than sensor division) though recently they made a small profit. Nikons losses have been writing off expenditure in non-Camera division and profits in the camera division are healthy (even if their market share is falling).

The thing is Sony can, due to the proffits in "entertainment" and semi conductor (including sensors), afford to subsidise the camera division. Nikon rely on cameras for a majority of its business.
 
The future for mirrorless (and therefore DSLRs) depends on sensor development IMHO. The big advantage is not really being merely mirrorless with the somewhat illusory savings in size/weight, but in getting rid of both the mirror and mechanical shutter. There are major practical advantages with improved reliability and potentially big production cost savings all round, and though we're not there yet, the Sony A9 suggests that it's getting close.

Sony appears to be leading, but Canon has never been stronger - at least in market share terms - with excellent sensors now and Canon also offers a global all-electronic shutter option (at a cost!) with one of its high-end video cameras. This is the key - a solid-state camera, compact and robust, lightning fast, with no moving parts (y) Nikon is in a bit of a pickle ATM but I think the longer term question is their apparent reliance on Sony for sensors, while Canon make their own.
 
I suppose you could say that the size difference isn't significant.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#567,624,ha,t

But I would say it's significant :D

I suppose you could get into the argument that there's no difference once you fit a 70-200mm f2.8 but the A7 body is always going to be smaller and you have the option of using a compact lens and ending up with a combination that the Nikon just can't slim down too even with a lens cap type lens.

Add an equivalent lens too (24-70 f2.8 v 24-70 f2.8) size difference doesn't look great but there's a 600g saving.
 
The big advantage is not really being merely mirrorless with the somewhat illusory savings in size/weight,

I wonder why people keep on making statements like this.

Hoppy and others...

No matter how many times this is said it's a blanket statement and as such can be wrong. For someone like me who likes the normalish FoV of about 35-50mm an A7 and prime lens offers real savings. Yes, the savings are going to diminish (but not disappear as the A7 body will always be smaller no matter what you put on it) once the lens dwarfs the body but the simple fact that's consistently lost on those who insist that an A7 is the same size as a DSLR once you fit "X" to it or that even if it's smaller the savings are insignificant is that at the A7 gives you the choice of having a compact camera and lens package if that's your aim.

My A7 and 35mm f2.8 fits in the same tiny bag my Panasonic (now sold) MFT G7 and prime or still owned / GX7 / GX80 plus prime fit into and that's quite remarkable considering they're MFT and the A7 is FF, and there's more... the A7 and 35mm f2.8 or other small prime is just about winter coat pocketable and that's something that just isn't going to be possible with a Canikon FF camera no matter what lens you mount on it.

Please stop saying that there's no saving in bulk or weigh or that it's insignificant or illusory. Maybe that's the case for you and your 24-70/70-200mm f2.8 but the truth is that if you want a compact system with a 28/35/50mm lens you can have it with an A7. It's no illusion.
 
Add an equivalent lens too (24-70 f2.8 v 24-70 f2.8) size difference doesn't look great but there's a 600g saving.

Where do you get 600g?

The d750 and 24-70 2.8 is 1740g
The a7rii and 24-70 2.8 is 1511g

That's..... 229g and you'd need to add a few batteries to the Sony to match the d750 battery life... Then you're pretty much even.
 
I know this is a Sony a9 thread, but some of the hyperbole regarding the death of DSLRs always needs to keep in mind that they are still by far the best selling type of interchangeable lens cameras even after all these years. ;) :rolleyes:

That said, as far as the a9 is concerned this video of the a9 v D5 really shocked me with the results they were getting in different situations. Some situations that the D5 was supposed to be leading all others in too. :eek:

However good the camera is though, the cost of changing for the majority of people invested in Canon or Nikon systems is prohibitive. Add that there may not yet be all the lens options to directly to replace what people may already be using, adds to the uphill task they have. If the a9 works as well against the 1DXII as well as it seems to have done against the D5, then it can only be good for Sony as time goes on, and the lens options improve.

As they say, time will tell. ;)
 
I wonder why people keep on making statements like this.

Hoppy and others...

No matter how many times this is said it's a blanket statement and as such can be wrong. For someone like me who likes the normalish FoV of about 35-50mm an A7 and prime lens offers real savings. Yes, the savings are going to diminish (but not disappear as the A7 body will always be smaller no matter what you put on it) once the lens dwarfs the body but the simple fact that's consistently lost on those who insist that an A7 is the same size as a DSLR once you fit "X" to it or that even if it's smaller the savings are insignificant is that at the A7 gives you the choice of having a compact camera and lens package if that's your aim.

My A7 and 35mm f2.8 fits in the same tiny bag my Panasonic (now sold) MFT G7 and prime or still owned / GX7 / GX80 plus prime fit into and that's quite remarkable considering they're MFT and the A7 is FF, and there's more... the A7 and 35mm f2.8 or other small prime is just about winter coat pocketable and that's something that just isn't going to be possible with a Canikon FF camera no matter what lens you mount on it.

Please stop saying that there's no saving in bulk or weigh or that it's insignificant or illusory. Maybe that's the case for you and your 24-70/70-200mm f2.8 but the truth is that if you want a compact system with a 28/35/50mm lens you can have it with an A7. It's no illusion.

Pick and choose your examples and you can prove anything you want, but the only inherent difference between mirrorless and DSLRs is a couple of cms chopped off the depth of the camera. If that does it for you then fine but for me and others it's neither here nor there, and you have to put the depth back with a decent handgrip to get a proper hold anyway.

There are lots of articles around comparing same spec mirrorless vs DSLRs and various lenses - mirrorless are often smaller, but not always. And there are some very small and light DSLRs and lenses about if that's what you're after http://cdn3.drprem.com/tech/wp-content/uploads/sites/18/2013/03/new-sl1-canon-camera.jpg

But if you want small and light, then it's not really a mirrorless vs DSLR question, but small sensor vs larger sensor. That's what drives the physics of lens design and that's where the real differences lie either way.
 
Pick and choose your examples and you can prove anything you want, but the only inherent difference between mirrorless and DSLRs is a couple of cms chopped off the depth of the camera. If that does it for you then fine but for me and others it's neither here nor there, and you have to put the depth back with a decent handgrip to get a proper hold anyway.

There are lots of articles around comparing same spec mirrorless vs DSLRs and various lenses - mirrorless are often smaller, but not always. And there are some very small and light DSLRs and lenses about if that's what you're after http://cdn3.drprem.com/tech/wp-content/uploads/sites/18/2013/03/new-sl1-canon-camera.jpg

But if you want small and light, then it's not really a mirrorless vs DSLR question, but small sensor vs larger sensor. That's what drives the physics of lens design and that's where the real differences lie either way.
Actually the a9 vs d5 size comparison is more than 2cm.... 2m more like lol
 
Where do you get 600g?

The d750 and 24-70 2.8 is 1740g
The a7rii and 24-70 2.8 is 1511g

That's..... 229g and you'd need to add a few batteries to the Sony to match the d750 battery life... Then you're pretty much even.

Sorry, shouldn't calculate after 3 pints!
 
There is a slight size difference between the a9 and the D5. ;) :LOL:

In the video I posted above though, one of the chaps says he feels the a9 is too small, and benefits from an added body extension Sony sell. That they will sell you for £130 btw, with no other benefit other than making the camera larger. :thinking: :LOL: Sell a camera with small size as a 'benefit', and then sell an extension basically admitting that the camera is too small for some people. Genius. :clap: Same as the grip they sell for the RX100 cameras which makes the cameras easier to hold. Design it right in the first place, and these are not needed. But then you wouldn't be able to charge people for them :thinking: Ah!, I get it mow. :rolleyes: :LOL:

Seriously, if they had mad the a9 slightly larger, they may have been able to fit XQD slots, and also made the camera more comfortable to hold.
 
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There is a slight size difference between the a9 and the D5. ;) :LOL:

In the video I posted above though, one of the chaps says he feels the a9 is too small, and benefits from an added body extension Sony sell. That they will sell you for £130 btw, with no other benefit other than making the camera larger. :thinking: :LOL: Sell a camera with small size as a 'benefit', and then sell an extension basically admitting that the camera is too small for some people. Genius. :clap: Same as the grip they sell for the RX100 cameras which makes the cameras easier to hold. Design it right in the first place, and these are not needed. But then you wouldn't be able to charge people for them :thinking: Ah!, I get it mow. :rolleyes: :LOL:

Seriously, if they had mad the a9 slightly larger, they may have been able to fit XQD slots, and also made the camera more comfortable to hold.

But then it would be too big for those who want a smaller camera. C'est la vie I guess.
 
There is a slight size difference between the a9 and the D5. ;) :LOL:

In the video I posted above though, one of the chaps says he feels the a9 is too small, and benefits from an added body extension Sony sell. That they will sell you for £130 btw, with no other benefit other than making the camera larger. :thinking: :LOL: Sell a camera with small size as a 'benefit', and then sell an extension basically admitting that the camera is too small for some people. Genius. :clap: Same as the grip they sell for the RX100 cameras which makes the cameras easier to hold. Design it right in the first place, and these are not needed. But then you wouldn't be able to charge people for them :thinking: Ah!, I get it mow. :rolleyes: :LOL:

Seriously, if they had mad the a9 slightly larger, they may have been able to fit XQD slots, and also made the camera more comfortable to hold.

But then people have a choice. Have it small ish without a grip. Add the grip when using a larger lens. Choice. It's a good thing.

As for the price of the grip, surely a 3rd party option for £40 doing the exact same thing as the Sony version will release soon like it did for the other Sony cameras.
 
But then people have a choice. Have it small ish without a grip. Add the grip when using a larger lens. Choice. It's a good thing.

As for the price of the grip, surely a 3rd party option for £40 doing the exact same thing as the Sony version will release soon like it did for the other Sony cameras.

This is what I like about the A7rii, its small when I want it to be (although even then usually with an L-Grip for a little more grip), bit bigger if I want it to be with either larger lenses or just extra batteries when size doesn't matter so much. A D750/D810 can only be large.
 
As for the price of the grip, surely a 3rd party option for £40 doing the exact same thing as the Sony version will release soon like it did for the other Sony cameras.

One of them will do for me please, and I hope the third parties bring out a battery soon - nowhere near as battery-hungry as the A7R2 (though those batteries are smaller), it's just reassuring to have a spare fully-charged battery!
 
Lets see if/how Nikon and Canon respond to the Sony A9, they still have certain advantages along with the more complete lens line-up. :)

I admire your enthusiasm for the Sony system and the couple of Sony cameras that I have tried have taken great images. They were the A7R and A7R2 - great at short focal lengths if things are not moving much eg landscapes. I haven't tried the A9 yet but I am sure it is a good camera.

Unfortunately I have a problem. I need the fastest AF available and I use long lenses for the vast majority of my photography so Sony cameras are simply useless to me. When Sony get around to producing a useful and adaptable system I will take them seriously - for now they look like fun but of no practical use to me (or most of the photographers that I know). I, like many others, also need a viewfinder that shows me what is happening now - not a moment ago. The viewfinder, eye, brain, index finger connection is already too slow with an optical viewfinder - so an EVF is hardly going to help!

Sony bought one of the best camera systems when the took over Minolta. With their financial, technological and brand muscle they could have made Canon/Nikon look like junk by now - yet the have ditched pretty much everything they bought!? Pity I was hoping they could have brought some real improvements to the photography world.

Still I an glad that the A9 suits you so well - enjoy it! All the best.
 
One of them will do for me please, and I hope the third parties bring out a battery soon - nowhere near as battery-hungry as the A7R2 (though those batteries are smaller), it's just reassuring to have a spare fully-charged battery!

Give it time. I guess being an early adopter will come with some frustrations ;)
 
When I was looking to get my first DSLR everyone said that Canon was way ahead so despite decades with a NIkon SLR I went with a Canon DSLR but it seems that in more recent years Nikon have had a clear lead over Canon and yet Canon have kept their sales lead. I guess there's a loyal customer base there and I think it'll last a long time.

Nikon does have a lead like you say but I don't think anyone likes using their D-Pad that is worse than what I had on a Saga Mastersystem 1 in the mid 1980`s.
 
But then people have a choice. Have it small ish without a grip. Add the grip when using a larger lens. Choice. It's a good thing.
The chap in the video I linked to above said that his knuckles rubbed on the larger lens, but with the grip extension he could angle his fingers so that didn't happen. I suppose it will affect different people in different ways depending on the size of their hands and the lenses used though.

Like I said though, by having the extension as an option they are admitting that some people will sometimes find the camera too small and/or uncomfortable to hold, so why not give it away free like Pentax have done with their KP DSLR and their optional grips. And if they are going to offer a grip and ask you to pay for it, you would think that they could add something extra like holding an extra battery or something. Power problems have traditionally been the Achilles heal of mirrorless cameras. Though from reviews, the a9 seems a lot better in that regard, but why not offer an option for more as part of the grip! :thinking:

As for the price of the grip, surely a 3rd party option for £40 doing the exact same thing as the Sony version will release soon like it did for the other Sony cameras.
I'm all for 3rd party alternatives, especially when manufactuers charge extortionate prices for accessories, but even £40 for a bit of metal seems a bit harsh imho. For some cameras you can get a grip that adds more power, remote control etc.

I know for some, their favoured manufacturer can do no wrong in every aspect of their designs. ;) Those that are considering buying or have bought a camera are also quick to defend any perceived slights against their choices. As a relative outsider, it is sometimes easier to query design choices. No camera is perfect after all. ;) And it is something to talk about anyway. :LOL:

Btw, I can tell you what is wrong, or should I say, is not quite right for me, ;) with all my cameras.
 
Nikon does have a lead like you say but I don't think anyone likes using their D-Pad that is worse than what I had on a Saga Mastersystem 1 in the mid 1980`s.
Saga! That sounds like an old system. ;)

Some Nikon cameras have a joystick, but I refer the D pad. Maybe because I am more used to it atm though. :)
 
Nikon does have a lead like you say but I don't think anyone likes using their D-Pad that is worse than what I had on a Saga Mastersystem 1 in the mid 1980`s.

What a system. Takes me back to Double dragon and California games. Blew me away at the time. Not having to wait 40 minutes for a game to load. Was like magic
 
What a system. Takes me back to Double dragon and California games. Blew me away at the time. Not having to wait 40 minutes for a game to load. Was like magic

Double Dragon yea, wish sega would make a come back and bring back their old games. I loved out run, the golden axe series, castle of illusion, altered beast, streets of rage 2, some army game I can remember but it was epic
 
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