The Lytro

Read an interesting review on Engadget. Won't be long before they can shrink that stuff and put it in a mobile. I read that Steve Jobs met with those guys.
 
seems like a one trick pony to me too. Being able to get a shot in focus on a mobile phone is not eaxctly difficult given hugh depth of field! In fact it is pretty difficult to not have the shot in focus but I suppose this system can provide (or emulate?) a low depth of field on a camera where that is not currently possible.
 
Surely the point is that you choose which part of the image is in focus after you've taken the picture.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Surely the point is that you choose which part of the image is in focus after you've taken the picture.
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I can't recall ever feeling the need to do that myself, but I'm sure there must be some people out there who regularly need to do that.
 
viewfromthenorth said:
I can't recall ever feeling the need to do that myself, but I'm sure there must be some people out there who regularly need to do that.
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How can you have felt the need to do that when you knew you couldn't? This is new technology isn't it? Prior to this, your point of focus was where you focussed at the point of taking the image. Now you will have the ability to take the photo, and afterwards, choose which part will be in focus, and which part will be out of focus.
 
Like I said, there must be people out there who will find it useful. I know I've never been able to do it afterwards, but there's plenty of other things I can't do as well, such as retrospectively change the shutter speed, which is why, with that and all the other limitations that we face when setting up the shot, I choose these things carefully before releasing the shutter. Maybe it's just my style of photography, but changing the point of focus is not something that would be of benefit to my own photography, but each to their own eh? :)
 
viewfromthenorth said:
Like I said, there must be people out there who will find it useful. I know I've never been able to do it afterwards, but there's plenty of other things I can't do as well, such as retrospectively change the shutter speed, which is why, with that and all the other limitations that we face when setting up the shot, I choose these things carefully before releasing the shutter. Maybe it's just my style of photography, but changing the point of focus is not something that would be of benefit to my own photography, but each to their own eh? :)
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I think it's exciting technology, even if it doesn't interest everyone. Times move on.
 
The concept of a lens that shoots wide open all the time means you would shoot at wide aperture to get shutter speeds up in low light then focus stack to get a decent depth of field to the image. Main uses are probably scientific where you don't actually know what you are focussing on until its happened, it has a certain novelty value for photography though, I'd expect to see it on phones soon.
 
they lytro has a set F2 aperature as well, im sure once the technology moves forward a bit more, we will see it being used on "real" cameras
 
I was at first a bit taken back and amazed by this camera last year, even put myself on the shortlist for one (until i got the price lol) but since i have researched into what actually goes on im not entirely impressed
Check this site out http://cameramaker.se/plenoptic.htm
Basically its been done for some time now and the "technology" is at the most an extremely well engineered piece of plastic lol
Hence to say the processing that creates these images is rather nifty.
The lytro is nothing more than a normal sensor with a tiny plentopic lens in front of it.
Perhaps that's why Steve jobs met with these guys, to give them a lesson in re inventing the wheel. After all, apple never gave the world anything new, just modified versions with killer marketing.
 
Simon photo said:
Perhaps that's why Steve jobs met with these guys, to give them a lesson in re inventing the wheel. After all, apple never gave the world anything new, just modified versions with killer marketing.
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Yeah, the 241 patents on which Steve Jobs is listed as inventor don't count for anything...
 
ernesto said:
Yeah, the 241 patents on which Steve Jobs is listed as inventor don't count for anything...
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Not really no. I wouldn't class someone who is primarily a designer as an inventor.
Nearly all his patents are for design and function. Such as a hockey puck mouse, lanyard for ipod, glass staircase. Changing the look, feel and operation of something makes you a designer not an inventor.
Like i said, re inventing the wheel.
Portable digital audio player, invented in 1979 by hans kramer and called the ixi. Kramer was later employed by Steve jobs.
Seven portable digital audio and mp3 players were in production before the ipod. Re inventing the wheel.
First touchscreen smartphone. The ibm Simon. On sale in 1994. Provided users with phone, email, facsimile, predictive text, notepad, calendar, electronic notepad, games, world clock and schedules.
iphone, 2007. Re invented wheel again.
Im not saying Steve jobs work on everyday things was bad, how can you? His marketing and re thinking has secured his name in history. But he only took what existed and modified. Not invented.
 
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I'm torn over this. It looks interesting but the existing "living photo" demo's - "the flower is in focus, now the girl and now the bridge" - leave me a bit underwhelmed and don't make me want one.

I would't be at all surprised, though, if some clever photographers thinking outside the box develop a "killer new effect/technique" only possible with the new tech, at which point I expect we'll be clambering over each other to get one.
 
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Simon photo said:
Not really no. I wouldn't class someone who is primarily a designer as an inventor.
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That's great, but you didn't define the word inventor :)

Invention
a new, useful process, machine, improvement, etc., that did not exist previously and that is recognized as the product of some unique intuition or genius, as distinguished from ordinary mechanical skill or craftsmanship.
 
I do get what you are saying and agree although what he did is worth appreciating as he did it so well. Is he a genius? well he is certainly more of a genuis than those in the Apple stores :)
 
Simon photo said:
But i think too many people regard him as a genius when in fact all he did was take existing products and put a twist on them. Hell! The first apple computer wasn't even his doing. Was hand built by Steve wozinak
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He did take Apple from near bankruptcy to being the highest valued company in the world. That takes a genius regardless of whether he did it by re-inventing the wheel or not :thumbs:
 
A shrewd man yes. A genius? No not in my eyes.
Genius falls on the likes of Einstein and hawkings to name but a few, some guy who is a marketing wizard is not a genius in my eyes.
I've got camera ideas that i think would revolutionize the world of digital photography but that wouldn't make me a genius, just a guy evolving an idea
 
Simon photo said:
A shrewd man yes. A genius? No not in my eyes.
Genius falls on the likes of Einstein and hawkings to name but a few, some guy who is a marketing wizard is not a genius in my eyes.
I've got camera ideas that i think would revolutionize the world of digital photography but that wouldn't make me a genius, just a guy evolving an idea
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It would make you a genius if you created them, marketed them, sold them and revolutionized the industry because it would be something new and original that no one else has thought of. "A genius is someone embodying exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality"
 
jacob12_1993 said:
It would make you a genius if you created them, marketed them, sold them and revolutionized the industry because it would be something new and original that no one else has thought of. "A genius is someone embodying exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality"
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But he didn't create these things people hail as holy. Apple products are just another version of something that already existed. The same with the lytro, its not new tech just another version of existing and known technology.
Im pretty sure the ceo of Samsung isn't regarded as a genius but they still make pretty good tech....better than apple products some would say, yet your everyday Joe wouldn't know who the hell is behind the products they produce.
Marketing wizard yes, Steve jobs was indeed an original thinker in that department but he was not a genius
 
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Simon photo said:
But he didn't create these things people hail as holy. Apple products are just another version of something that already existed. The same with the lytro, its not new tech just another version of existing and known technology.
Im pretty sure the ceo of Samsung isn't regarded as a genius but they still make pretty good tech....better than apple products some would say, yet your everyday Joe wouldn't know who the hell is behind the products they produce.
Marketing wizard yes, Steve jobs was indeed an original thinker in that department but he was not a genius
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I wasn't saying that he was a genius for inventing, he is a genius for his business acumen and how he transformed a company around from the edge of bankruptcy to No.1 in the world, he was also a genius for taking others ideas and making them better/re branding them to make apple billions in profits. If that's not genius I give up :thumbs: actually if that's not a genius I don't want to ever be a genius :D
 
Lytro is still at the stage where the cameras are expensive toys, but it's not going to be long before some really interesting applications come along for them.

One of my first thoughts was that this camera has a hell of a maximum aperture for such a zoom range. Either it's awesome lens design (unlikely) really crap lens design (more likely) or all the lens design rules have suddenly changed for this new technology and we're about to see something completely different as a result.
 
The Verge's review of the new Lytro camera has some example pictures. It doesn't seem to be able to take a picture that's sharp (yes I know, you clever gits - I do of course mean the part of the picture where the focus is).
 
It's really cool, but I'm not sure what it's useful for...

More of interest to me is the new camera app on Android phones which can build a depth map of the image automatically and apply "depth of field" blur in post. Seems a more logical way of working to me.
 
This is old news. They've been hawking this technology around for a few years now.

That example image seems to only have 2 focus points as well... the guy in the foreground, or the background... that's it. If that's a real world example of it's flexibility, it's pretty poor. Admittedly I've seen better working examples than this before, but the whole system when you see it is just effectively a point and shoot. If it was proven, and implemented in a SLR I'd be interested, but as it is, it's a novelty that will only find it's way into consumer cameras. It will be over a decade before it matures into anything usable from a professional viewpoint.

Still interesting though... just old news.
 
Solution looking for a problem. And the snake-oil marketing doesn't help.
 
It is an exciting development, and a clear indication that other manufacturers should make more use of GPUs and CPUs for advanced image generation. For now it's a gimmick, but it has a potential to develop into something useful.
 
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