the john terry racism stuff

matty said:
It's not a racist comment though. Are you offended by it?
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he's saying that being white (or aspiring to be like white people) is a bad thing - how can that not be racist ?
 
cambsno said:
I agree. How can u have equality? If its derogatory then it shouldn't matter who says it.
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So we all stop insulting each other now then?
 
TriggerHappy said:
Doesn't make it right though!
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:thumbs: spot on - What i'm saying is that it doesnt show terry in a good light that he's willing to do his team mates partner (or Ex)
 
big soft moose said:
he's saying that being white (or aspiring to be like white people) is a bad thing - how can that not be racist ?
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Not exactly what it means though is it?
 
matty said:
Not exactly what it means though is it?
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Isnt it ?

My take (as explained by various black freinds) was that choc ice (also coconut, bounty bar etc) was a term of abuse from one black to another saying that he was white on the inside (ie that he had betrayed his brothers to 'the man') - ie that a true black wouldn't engage in such dishonourable behavior.

Also its a term of abuse that would only be used to another black - and therefore its a judgement being made on skin colour (in this case if it was another white player who was backing up terry's story ferdinand wouldnt agree that he was a choc ice )

and at the bottom line even if its not racist its still abusive - and players abusing each other is, or should be, proffesional misconduct

I mean with your admin hat on would you be happy if a black TP member used that termto another one ?
 
wouldnt bother me, no.

the reason is because colour isnt an issue to me, its like poking fun at someone for shagging someone elses mrs, or being called ginger, or fat, or bald...bottom line is that we shouldnt call anyone names or poke fun, but we do, its human nature. There are a large amount of people out there who get offended on other peoples behalf, when in reality half of those supposed targets wouldnt be bothered either.
 
matty said:
It's not a racist comment though. Are you offended by it?
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It's not the comment that I'm talking about its the train of thought that ...


matty said:
Rio is black, so he can say what he likes about other black people..
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That's what I think is flawed. A racist comment is a racist comment no matter the colour of the skin of the person who says it.

in my opinion.
 
joescrivens said:
It's not the comment that I'm talking about its the train of thought that ...




That's what I think is flawed. A racist comment is a racist comment no matter the colour of the skin of the person who says it.

in my opinion.
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a racist comment is no different to any other type of insult. Distinguishing it makes it MORE of an issue than it is.

Black people call each other niggers..but that girl off big brother got booted out for saying it, and not even to a black person. should all black people be stopped from saying it too?
 
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thing with that is it depends on how its said -black people have 'reclaimed' the word nigger and some often use it in a non derogatory way .. however if its used as an insult surely its still racial abuse

come to that what about one black person abusing another about their specific heritage (for example i once witnessed it kick off big time between a guy who's family are from jamiaca and a guy who's family are from fiji - with lots of abuse flying about about specific things that jamaicans or fijians are or do - and lots of racial epiphets including the word nigger being used in a way which was definitely derogatory)

at the end of the day if you are going to have true racial equality everyones got to be able to use the same words - so if blacks want to reclaim the word nigger and claim its just a term like mate, pal, bro etc - then white people have got to be able to use it with impunity in that context

and likewise if a white person is going to get punished for reffering to a black as a 'brain dead n......' , then a black who refers to another black in those terms should be punished too
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Isn't it against the law?
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ermm..yes...otherwise it wouldnt have got to court.

and thats the whole point. WHY is colour any different to any other physical attribute? or nationality, religion..etc etc etc.
 
matty said:
a racist comment is no different to any other type of insult. Distinguishing it makes it MORE of an issue than it is.

Black people call each other niggers..but that girl off big brother got booted out for saying it, and not even to a black person. should all black people be stopped from saying it too?
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But what you are saying is that because someone is of a specific race they can say whatever they want about others of the same race.

That's ludicrous, in my opinion.
 
matty said:
ermm..yes...otherwise it wouldnt have got to court.

and thats the whole point. WHY is colour any different to any other physical attribute? or nationality, religion..etc etc etc.
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I agree with this totally!

But is it fine for one fat person to call another one fat just because they are fat too? It's still an insult? It's irrelevant who is saying it it doesn't make it less of an insult jut because the person saying it is also fat.
 
matty said:
and thats the whole point. WHY is colour any different to any other physical attribute? or nationality, religion..etc etc etc.
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so why did i get an infraction last year for quoting a line from 'snatch' refference a certain term about the travelling comunity - when others have said they hate other segments of society with impunity ?

(i'm not bothered about the infraction - i'm just illustrating that even on TP Racism(and doubtless sexism and homophobia) are treated as being more serious than just run of the mill insults)
 
matty said:
ermm..yes...otherwise it wouldnt have got to court.

and thats the whole point. WHY is colour any different to any other physical attribute? or nationality, religion..etc etc etc.
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"Race crime doesn't just mean when someone becomes a victim because of the colour of their skin. It also includes nationality, culture and language."
 
big soft moose said:
at the end of the day if you are going to have true racial equality everyones got to be able to use the same words - so if blacks want to reclaim the word nigger and claim its just a term like mate, pal, bro etc - then white people have got to be able to use it with impunity in that context

and likewise if a white person is going to get punished for reffering to a black as a 'brain dead n......' , then a black who refers to another black in those terms should be punished too
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precisely..everyone should be equal...

but


joescrivens said:
But what you are saying is that because someone is of a specific race they can say whatever they want about others of the same race.

That's ludicrous, in my opinion.
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its ludicrous, but its what happens, see above

joescrivens said:
I agree with this totally!

But is it fine for one fat person to call another one fat just because they are fat too? It's still an insult? It's irrelevant who is saying it it doesn't make it less of an insult jut because the person saying it is also fat.
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technically correct, but if the person on the end of insult and the person delivering are the same, then the context and meaning need to be taken into account.

life isnt black and white(pardon the pun), everything has context and sometimes things need to be looked at in different ways.

as for BSM and his infraction...as a forum, we need to have a balanced and nuetral outlook, so we have a group of us making decisions on what is and isnt ok to say on teh forum, plus the amount of RTMs we get from people who are offended by the particular thing in question is nuts.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
"Race crime doesn't just mean when someone becomes a victim because of the colour of their skin. It also includes nationality, culture and language."
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which is exactly what im saying, but maybe if we all just accepted the fact we are all the same inside then it wouldnt be a problem. too many bigots and xenophobes in the world make it impossible. If some folk didnt get offended by just about anything then the world would run a whole lot smoother. Terry was reported by someone watching on TV who got offended, likewise Ferdinands tweet has been picked up by the Mail on Sunday..
 
matty said:
which is exactly what im saying, but maybe if we all just accepted the fact we are all the same inside then it wouldnt be a problem. too many bigots and xenophobes in the world make it impossible. If some folk didnt get offended by just about anything then the world would run a whole lot smoother. Terry was reported by someone watching on TV who got offended, likewise Ferdinands tweet has been picked up by the Mail on Sunday..
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You're right. The world sure would be a better place if people did accept the fact we are all the same inside. Sadly, I can't see us arriving at that situation any time soon. The problem is our society is full of too many things which, by their very nature, divide us. Religion, nationality, language, culture etc. The list goes on.
 
matty said:
its ludicrous, but its what happens, see above
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I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying that thinking its ok because they have the same ... Skin, religion, insert whatever you want .... is ludicrous.

If an insult is delivered as an insult, then its an insult no matter who delivers it. It's not ok because the person delivering is of the same race, religion etc.
 
Is an insult that because of the intent with which it's delivered or is it an insult because the person hearing it is offended?
 
matty said:
Is an insult that because of the intent with which it's delivered or is it an insult because the person hearing it is offended?
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If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it does it make a sound?
 
Imo its basically about intent - the terry case would bear that out - the court found he had no intent to raciallly abuse ferdinand so found him not guilty

however there are those in society (and indeed on TP) who get offended at the drop of a hat and alledge intent to offend when none is present
 
big soft moose said:
however there are those in society (and indeed on TP) who get offended at the drop of a hat and alledge intent to offend when none is present
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On the other hand there are people in society who insult deliberately with intent. When this happens, the insult is an insult no matter what the person saying it has in common with the person the insult is targetted at.
 
matty said:
as for BSM and his infraction...as a forum, we need to have a balanced and nuetral outlook, so we have a group of us making decisions on what is and isnt ok to say on teh forum, plus the amount of RTMs we get from people who are offended by the particular thing in question is nuts.
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So having adjudged the "p word" unacceptable - given your feeling that its okay for a black guy to say "nigger" - where do you stand if someone from the travelling comunity joins and uses "the p word" - which they do in my experience, a lot - they use it both in a non derogatory way - like some blacks use "nigger" , and also some romany travellers use it a term of abuse for irish travellers.

You can see where i'm going with this... there has to be one rule for everyone or there might as well be no rules at all
 
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big soft moose said:
So having adjudged the "p word" unacceptable - given your feeling that its okay for a black guy to say "nigger" - where do you stand if someone from the travelling comunity joins and uses "the p word" - which they do in my experience, a lot - they use it both in a non derogatory way - like some blacks use "nigger" , and also some romany travellers use it a term of abuse for irish travellers.

You can see where i'm going with this... there has to be one rule for everyone or there might as well be no rules at all
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the video posted by Andy sums it up.

You wouldnt believe how many people are offended by the P word..doesnt bother me, but for the greater good...

AndyB1976 said:
[YOUTUBE]SYkbqzWVHZI[/YOUTUBE]
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spot on. thats where its heading!
 
Incidentally I once got banned from another photo site (based in the states) for telling the joke about 'the redneck who wasnt a racist' (ie some of his best freinds were n..... )

The really ironic thing about that was the stated judgement that it wasnt using the N word that was the problem , it was the offence that some of their members from the southern states took at the stereotype and the use of the term 'redneck' - make of that what you will :bang:
 
I am confused by this choc ice comment and what it means.........


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not read all of the many comments but I am dumbfounded by his defence of "I was only repeating what he called me?"
 
big soft moose said:
Incidentally I once got banned from another photo site (based in the states) for telling the joke about 'the redneck who wasnt a racist' (ie some of his best freinds were n..... )

The really ironic thing about that was the stated judgement that it wasnt using the N word that was the problem , it was the offence that some of their members from the southern states took at the stereotype and the use of the term 'redneck' - make of that what you will :bang:
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The comedian Jim Davidson is often considered to be racist, especially with his black "friend" Chalky.

In an interview he said that in his Chalky jokes he only ever made Chalky the hero and the joke was on other people being racist towards him.
 
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