the john terry racism stuff

I consider that example with the golfer to have been racist because he did not say something in the spur of the moment, he had been directly asked about tiger, so he had no reason to describe anything about him to differentiate him in any way. He also had time to consider his answer and then came out with that.

It's all about the context of how it has been said, in this case my opinion is that he was being racist.
 
Gerrard said:
I wonder what other black Chelsea players have said about it.. They have'nt said to much if anything..
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Exactly, they know him very well, so even if he did say it they know it was a spur of the moment thing and something that happens. They have all said similar in the past no doubt. They have nothing to gain from being quiet, the likes of cole could probably get a move to City or Madrid.

Context is everything and doing the same on the high st is totally different, I have not been in a fight in the street but have on a pitch.
 
joescrivens said:
Also this debate is being ruined by people saying things like "I can't believe you can't see is or that" and " how is this even up for debate" like somehow they are automatically right instead of realising they just have an opinion on something.
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I still can't believe you don't see it.
 
akr said:
I still can't believe you don't see it.
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what you are saying is ridiculous. You are basically saying

"I still can't believe you think something differently to me"

why is it so hard to imagine that not everybody has the same opinion as you? :shrug:
 
Everyone has different opinions, nothing wrong there. I know that I would never swear in front of my grandparents as they would find the f word offensive let alone the c word. There will be fat people who don't care about being called fat and some who would burst ino tears, same with race, sex and anything else. As I have said before, call someone a French/German/Scottish **** and no-one bats an eyelid despite it being racist too?
 
Surely all those people who say we should get an english manager after capello are racist too?
 
joescrivens said:
what you are saying is ridiculous. You are basically saying

"I still can't believe you think something differently to me"

why is it so hard to imagine that not everybody has the same opinion as you? :shrug:
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It was a slightly tongue in cheek, part serious response. It has been explained a few times why it was a racist comment, for me there is no debate about it which is why I can't understand people saying him using the word black, in this context was irrelevant. Ultimately people want to believe what they want to believe, but it is clear to me that this was racist.

Anyway not sure anyone in this thread has changed their opinion based on anyone else's point of view, people seem entrenched in their view so I think I'll bid this thread adios for now and get ready to head down to Loftus road to see if Man City can keep their cool better than Chelsea did.
 
akr said:
It was a slightly tongue in cheek, part serious response. It has been explained a few times why it was a racist comment, for me there is no debate about it which is why I can't understand people saying him using the word black, in this context was irrelevant. Ultimately people want to believe what they want to believe, but it is clear to me that this was racist.

Anyway not sure anyone in this thread has changed their opinion based on anyone else's point of view, people seem entrenched in their view so I think I'll bid this thread adios for now and get ready to head down to Loftus road to see if Man City can keep their cool better than Chelsea did.
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You're a brave man, I'm off downstairs to move the sofa away from the wall so I can watch from behind it! :help:
 
akr said:
It has been explained a few times why it was a racist comment
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No.

It has been explained a few times why some people THINK it is a racist comment and it has been explained a few times why other DONT THINK it is a racist comment.

That's whats baffling me, that you can't see that its merely a difference of opinion. What you, me or anyone else is saying is not fact, it's interpretation and opinion.
 
fabs said:
You're a brave man, I'm off downstairs to move the sofa away from the wall so I can watch from behind it! :help:
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I am more than overly concerned it could get a little embarrassing, but then again I thought that for the Chelsea game. It's a strange set of affairs when I'd almost be pleased only losing 2-0!
 
joescrivens said:
No.

It has been explained a few times why some people THINK it is a racist comment and it has been explained a few times why other DONT THINK it is a racist comment.

That's whats baffling me, that you can't see that its merely a difference of opinion. What you, me or anyone else is saying is not fact, it's interpretation and opinion.
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I take your point about opinion, however I don't believe this is about opinion it is a fact.

Ferdinand who it was directed at believes it was racist (that I'll give you is an assumption but I'm not sure why he'd do his FA statement otherwise and thank others for support).

Terry who made the comment thinks it was racist, which is why he is saying 'I said I would never call someone a black c***).

So the two people involved believe it to be racist (though Terry's case is that as mentioned above - if he did say it in the context of I would never say that, then he was not being racist - the term itself is).

Anyway, I really do have to go. And that is a fact! :)
 
the key part of your above comment was how many times you used the word think.

It's all about interpretation and opinion. Thats all, and yours is more than valid, as is mine.

I still stand by the fact that I haven't decided if this particular incident is or isnt racist as I don't know the facts of what exactly was and wasn't said.
 
DemiLion said:
You stated that the police had better things to do than worry about a little racial slurring, and yet you then surmise that the children's attitude was learnt from their environment (one of them was a public schoolgirl by the way).

So if lethal hate crime is born of one's environment, how exactly is addressing the factors that influence that environment not a good idea?

Attitude is absolutely everything.
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theres nothing to say that rich parents can't be homophobic ****wits who pass on the most abhorent attitudes to their kids , or to say that public school kids cant pick up such attitudes from each other being a nasty little scrote isnt the preserve of any particular class

I absolutely agree that adressing factors that effect the environment is a good idea

what i'm saying though is wasting police resources investigating whether john terry said a bad word or not when no complaint has been made by the supposed victim ( yes i know hes made a statement now - but that was at police/FA behest , he didnt raise the original issue) isnt a good use of resources that could be more profitably spent investigating actual hate crimes.

I'd also note (in respect of the attack you are talking about) that some kids/people generally always have been and allways will be nasty sick little *******s, and frankly there are other issues arround that kind of attack happening , such as lack of fear of consequence, lack of police on the beat to prevent it, and overly PC *******s putting people off interfering for fear of then being prosecuted /sued - but thats a whole different discussion.
 
CT said:
Time for a reality check. Pop out onto your local High Street tomorrow and call someone a black c*nt. Play fair and do it in front of witnesses so it's substantiated, and I guarantee your feet won't touch the floor all the way to the nick! ;)
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Or

Pop out onto your local High Street tomorrow and call someone a "d**k", punch them in the face, stamp on their head and nick their phone. Do it in infront of witnesses, and I guarantee.........


....You'll have a nice new phone to vote for the x-factor on saturday night.


:D



I think society has it's priorities the wrong way round.
Yes, calling someone a Black C*** is wrong...and I'd say racist.
However, it's no worse than calling someone a Fat C*** (Which would be much more socially acceptable). The fact that Racism is illegal is the problem here. I say problem in the sense that it was made illegal to stamp out *serious* inherent racism, not a bit of name calling in 2011 on a football pitch.
By serious racism I mean actual serious discrimination. People being treated differently because of their race.
Totally different ball game (no pun intended), yet theyre treated as the 'same' crime.
 
Marcel said:
it was made illegal to stamp out *serious* inherent racism, not a bit of name calling in 2011 on a football pitch.
By serious racism I mean actual serious discrimination. People being treated differently because of their race.
Totally different ball game (no pun intended), yet theyre treated as the 'same' crime.
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This

exactly what i was getting at above - wouldnt the resources poured into investigating whether john terry called anton ferdinand a bad name , or said he wouldnt call him a bad name , or whatever be better used investigating actual discrimnation or hate crimes - or just getting a few more cops out on the streets to stop trouble kicking off
 
Not sure if it has been mentioned, but it is not the first time John Terry has had a suspicion of racism attached to him. Apparently he made racist comments to Ledley King some years ago during a game.
 
Marcel said:
I think society has it's priorities the wrong way round.
Yes, calling someone a Black C*** is wrong...and I'd say racist.
However, it's no worse than calling someone a Fat C*** (Which would be much more socially acceptable). The fact that Racism is illegal is the problem here. I say problem in the sense that it was made illegal to stamp out *serious* inherent racism, not a bit of name calling in 2011 on a football pitch.
By serious racism I mean actual serious discrimination. People being treated differently because of their race.
Totally different ball game (no pun intended), yet theyre treated as the 'same' crime.
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Dammit, WHY does he always manage to find a way to say what I am thinking and can't explain properly! :D
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15932362

It seems interesting that the police have taken 4 or 5 weeks to interview John Terry (under caution and not arrested) whereas the shouty woman on the Croydon tram has been identified, arrested, charged and remanded in custody within 48 hours of the event.

I suppose the evidence was a little clearer in the tram case :shrug:
 
Just a bit.

The John terry thing was a non event. Whereas the tram thing was full blown racism
 
Not defending her, but custody while muggers, knife carrying youths and sex offenders are on bail ????
 
Thinking about it, what about the person who posted the clip on utube. Is that not inciting racial hatred too? Take it to the police yes, but that could inspire others to do the same.
 
And that proves my earlier point. Both incidents are treated pretty much as equal, under the blanket term... racism, whereas one was a heat of the moment comment, the other was a deep hatred and loathing. Two totally different things, and with the furore as swoon as the r word is mentioned anytime, it doesn't do the case for stamping out serious racism any good.

The video shows though, that although this is one woman....there is a deep underlying resentment that does need to be tackled. Stamping down and getting petty over things like using the word black as a descriptor, and companies being forced (not directly, I understand) to employ x amount of minorities regardless of suitability for the job, is clearly not the answer.
 
cambsno said:
Thinking about it, what about the person who posted the clip on utube. Is that not inciting racial hatred too? Take it to the police yes, but that could inspire others to do the same.
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Personally I'd have posted half the video then sold the full version to the daily fail for a tidy sum!
 
And to top it off, she's been remanded in custody.....now that is ott. What for? While muggers, theives and those who cause physical harm get bail.
 
Marcel said:
And to top it off, she's been remanded in custody.....now that is ott. What for? While muggers, theives and those who cause physical harm get bail.
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Politics. The video has been watched by thousands and they have to be seen to be doing something so they were always going to be heavy handed. Exactly the same with JT, should have been dealt with in house by the FA but all the media coverage meant there are political points to be won.
 
If she is in custody for her own protection?...Then it makes me wonder where the real problem lies. Is she the problem or is it those that she is being protected from that's the real problem? :thinking:
 
You know, I have been called a Greek **** (many times :lol:) and have never thought of it as racist remark, after all, its what I am..... Greek not a ****. ;)
 
JohnF said:
Her face is plastered over the Internet, she has been named. It is for her own safety. If she is released and attacked the police have to answer to that.
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So what about all those victims out there who report harassment and intimidation either by ex partners, family members, neighbours etc, only to be told "We can't do anything until they actually hurt you"
 
Marcel said:
So what about all those victims out there who report harassment and intimidation either by ex partners, family members, neighbours etc, only to be told "We can't do anything until they actually hurt you"
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See plenty of cases where that isn't the case in my job.

That's not what the discussion was about either.
 
JohnF said:
See plenty of cases where that isn't the case in my job.

That's not what the discussion was about either.
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I've seen plenty of cases in my life where it is the case too :)
It *is* part of the discussion, it's thread progression ;)
 
Then we have reached a deadlock of sorts. I read plenty (thousands) of crime reports each year, those you refer to if I understand correctly what you mean,, tend to be either lack of evidence or the victim not willing to substantiate a allegation in which case there is not a lot can be done.

Back to this case and the remanding in custody (which was the only thing I was discussing;) ), unfortunately police have a duty of care to her.
 
JohnF said:
Back to this case and the remanding in custody (which was the only thing I was discussing;) ), unfortunately police have a duty of care to her.
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Have the police actually said that she is in custody for her own safety?
 
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