the john terry racism stuff

akr said:
I'm genuinely amazed people can't see it was a racist comment. :thinking:

Even Terry recognises it was, by the fact he said he would never say such a thing.
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It's because some people are so busy analysing it in order to make it acceptable, they haven't even thought about the effect of saying things like this can have on people, not to mention that, in a time when we are trying to stamp out racism, others will assume it is acceptable and it will never stop.
 
or possibly people think that the police etc time spent on this could be spent investigating some actual racist crimes - you know ones where the supposed victim has actually made a complaint.

the way to stamp out racism is to tackle the serious issues , not waste time and resources on overly pc witch hunts about something which a footballer might or might not have said
 
would you c**** stop swearing, it's going to take me ages to clean this thread :D
 
dod said:
would you c**** stop swearing, it's going to take me ages to clean this thread :D
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:lol: You can take the man out of Glasgow but you can't take Glasgow out of the man!
 
...
 
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big soft moose said:
or possibly people think that the police etc time spent on this could be spent investigating some actual racist crimes - you know ones where the supposed victim has actually made a complaint.

the way to stamp out racism is to tackle the serious issues , not waste time and resources on overly pc witch hunts about something which a footballer might or might not have said
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Yes and No, all racism should be dealt with.

By ignoring and allowing comments like this, you ate saying it is OK, by cutting it out at this level, hopefully the youngsters will see it is not acceptable. So many kids want to be like their football hero. Their hero needs to set a good example.
 
big soft moose said:
or possibly people think that the police etc time spent on this could be spent investigating some actual racist crimes - you know ones where the supposed victim has actually made a complaint.

the way to stamp out racism is to tackle the serious issues , not waste time and resources on overly pc witch hunts about something which a footballer might or might not have said
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I kind of agree with that and I'm sure most coppers would rather be doing something else as well , but the fact is these guys are high profile public figures with a huge following of often very impressionable young people and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it just because it's on a football field. They need to start living up to the professional image and stop behaving like louts.
 
fabs said:
I already answered in my reply to Joe. There is a world of difference between someone being black & a c*** and being a black c***. If you can't see the difference then I don't know what else I can say. :shrug:
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But that's just an opinion :shrug:
 
yeah but we dont even know what he said

if he said as some claim ,' i'd never call you a black c--t ' then he's actually in the right and taking a stance against the perceived insult

surely its better to put limited resources into investigating crimes that we know to have been commited rather than investigate what john terry might or might not have said
 
big soft moose said:
yep there is

if someone says " you're black and you're a c--t" then they are implying that the former leads to the latter so its actually more racist than saying you're a 'black c--t'

theres also a world of difference between something being so in your opinion, and something being so factually correct that everyone else has to bow down and accept that you are speaking the one true word
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Once again, you take something and twist it around. I never said that " you're black and you're a c--t" is acceptable, I was talking about the effect of adding one word to another.

I've never said anyone has to bow down to anything so wind your neck in! I really don't know what your problem is with me but I'm getting sick of the personal digs!
 
CT said:
and stop behaving like louts.
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some hope of that , rember the old saying that

'rugby is a game for hooligans played by gentlemen, while football is a game for gentlemen played by hooligans' it twas ever thus and its not likely to change anytime soon
 
CT said:
I kind of agree with that and I'm sure most coppers would rather be doing something else as well , but the fact is these guys are high profile public figures with a huge following of often very impressionable young people and they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it just because it's on a football field. They need to start living up to the professional image and stop behaving like louts.
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And that's why this is a PC issue and not a racist issue.
 
fabs said:
Once again, you take something and twist it around. I never said that " you're black and you're a c--t" is acceptable, I was talking about the effect of adding one word to another.
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oh whatever .. i can't be bothered to debate if you are going to turn everything into a personal argument
 
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All you white folks still debating whether it is racist to call someone a black c**t, I still cant fathom how you guys think. It truly is unbelievable.

I doubt any one of you would do it in front of anyone, it really is the sadist thread I've had the misfortune of reading, cant believe the words from some posters...

I guess I just shouldn't come back to it.
 
Davie said:
All you white folks still debating whether it is racist to call someone a black c**t, I still cant fathom how you guys think. It truly is unbelievable.

I doubt any one of you would do it in front of anyone, it really is the sadist thread I've had the misfortune of reading, cant believe the words from some posters...

I guess I just shouldn't come back to it.
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The point is... He called him a ****! His colour is just a description of him :shrug:
 
Davie said:
All you white folks still debating whether it is racist to call someone a black c**t, I still cant fathom how you guys think. It truly is unbelievable.

I doubt any one of you would do it in front of anyone, it really is the sadist thread I've had the misfortune of reading, cant believe the words from some posters...

I guess I just shouldn't come back to it.
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Don,t tar us allwith the same brush, some stuff in this thread makes be embarrassed to be white...cringing in fact.
 
big soft moose said:
or possibly people think that the police etc time spent on this could be spent investigating some actual racist crimes - you know ones where the supposed victim has actually made a complaint.

the way to stamp out racism is to tackle the serious issues , not waste time and resources on overly pc witch hunts about something which a footballer might or might not have said
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On the Twenty Fifth of September, Two Thousand and Nine, Ian Baynham, a sixty two year old civil servant, was attacked and kicked into unconsciousness by two seventeen year old girls and an eighteen year old boy. He died in hospital eighteen days later.

His crime was that he was openly gay.

Where do you think that children learn that it is acceptable to be so bigoted?
 
the only thing i'd say in response to davies post quoted above is that everyone is entitled to their opinion - just because two posters dont agree doesnt mean that either of them are sad , unbelievable , or indeed (from a previous post) members of the BNP

that aside it strikes me that this thread isnt going to go anywhere worthwhile - past time for :lock: imo
 
Splog said:
The point is... He called him a ****! His colour is just a description of him :shrug:
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Sorry mate, but I just cringed again.
 
NigelPaul said:
Don,t tar us allwith the same brush, some stuff in this thread makes be embarrassed to be white...cringing in fact.
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Pretty much this.

I am actually baffled by the attitudes on display in this thread. Although it did take until page six before someone actually used the term 'PC'. That's almost commendable restraint.
 
DemiLion said:
Where do you think that children learn that it is acceptable to be so bigoted?
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from the attitudes of their parents and immediate environment

I strongly doubt that the attack had anything to do with a premiership footballer expressing a homophobic attitude (if any such had indeed done so at that point)
 
Davie said:
All you white folks still debating whether it is racist to call someone a black c**t, I still cant fathom how you guys think. It truly is unbelievable.

I doubt any one of you would do it in front of anyone, it really is the sadist thread I've had the misfortune of reading, cant believe the words from some posters...

I guess I just shouldn't come back to it.
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Probably the most racist post on this entire thread, not that Im bothered by it! Words eh!
 
NigelPaul said:
Sorry mate, but I just cringed again.
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Fair enough! ... But why?
 
I've been reading this thread and managed to restrain myself from posting but I can't hold my tongue any longer.

I want to add my voice to those that are astonished that some people fail to see that calling someone "black c***" is racist. Sure, we can all manufacture a sentence where both words are used without the race element being derogatory but in this instance, if it is indeed what Terry said, it was just those two words used and together they form the insult. One isn't descriptive whilst the other is an insult, they are both used as an abusive phrase. I don't understand how people can't understand that :shrug:
 
How can people not see that any word you stick in front of c**t will be derogatory? Fat, black, ginger, bald, blind, deaf, one legged, short. By doing this you are picking out a feature you feel lessens them and adds to the insult. How can you not see or understand this?

Deacribing someone as black is completely different and acceptable. Using black as part of derogatory phrase is simply wrong.
 
If said to a white fella he wouldn't have said white C***.
He could have said bald, fat etc, but these are not racist, both black and white people can be them and even ginger. Only a black person can be black and a white person white, so to add that persons colour of skin as part of the insult is racial.
 
Marc has pretty much nailed it to the flag pole.

maybe there are some regional dialect/meanings to factor in to this, I dunno,:shrug: its the only way I can rationalise some of the ***** that has been spouted in this thread.

if only it were as simple as having an opinion, I don't...can't believe it is actually even open to debate..

The thread should be about what punishment should Terry receive, assuming he said what has been reported, I don't want to read any more crap about twisted interpretations of what is or is not racist disguised as "opinions".
 
big soft moose said:
from the attitudes of their parents and immediate environment

I strongly doubt that the attack had anything to do with a premiership footballer expressing a homophobic attitude (if any such had indeed done so at that point)
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You stated that the police had better things to do than worry about a little racial slurring, and yet you then surmise that the children's attitude was learnt from their environment (one of them was a public schoolgirl by the way).

So if lethal hate crime is born of one's environment, how exactly is addressing the factors that influence that environment not a good idea?

Attitude is absolutely everything.
 
NigelPaul said:
If said to a white fella he wouldn't have said white C***.
He could have said bald, fat etc, but these are not racist, both black and white people can be them and even ginger. Only a black person can be black and a white person white, so to add that persons colour of skin as part of the insult is racial.
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No, but if it had been Anton with the abuse he may have said white ****. When trading insults, I wouldn't have thought that someone with glasses would call someone speccy **** or a fat person would say fat **** or a red haired person would say ginger **** so a white person is hardly going to say white ****.
 
Time for a reality check. Pop out onto your local High Street tomorrow and call someone a black c*nt. Play fair and do it in front of witnesses so it's substantiated, and I guarantee your feet won't touch the floor all the way to the nick! ;)
 
racist slurs are produced by combining a general-purpose insult with the race/colour/name of ethnicity/culture...is the point I was trying to make.
 
CT said:
Time for a reality check. Pop out onto your local High Street tomorrow and call someone a black c*nt. Play fair and do it in front of witnesses so it's substantiated, and I guarantee your feet won't touch the floor all the way to the nick! ;)
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I agree with you regarding what the outcome would be BUT I think many people on here would agree that the term *shouldn't* be classed as racial abuse.

It's the whole PC gone mad where anything that remotely touches on something that may just be related to someone being of a different ethnicity is deemed racist.

About 20 years ago one of my cousins was called to the school about her 6 year old son being involved in a racist incident.

Apparently there was a Russian girl and he said "Your a cow 'cos your Mum comes from MosCOW"

My cousin said "Dan, do you know what "racist" is?", he shook his head, my cousin told the school how ridiculous this was and told them to stop wasting her time!

It was just name calling, OK he needed to be taught that you don't call people names but racial abuse....... I don't think so!!!
 
CT said:
Time for a reality check. Pop out onto your local High Street tomorrow and call someone a black c*nt. Play fair and do it in front of witnesses so it's substantiated, and I guarantee your feet won't touch the floor all the way to the nick! ;)
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I don't see how this example is even relevant the context is completely different and I could also say a number of other insults not even related to race and the same thing would happen.

Also this debate is being ruined by people saying things like "I can't believe you can't see is or that" and " how is this even up for debate" like somehow they are automatically right instead of realising they just have an opinion on something.

As for davie's opening statement. I find that ridiculous, you are assuming opinions here are based on the colour of our skin when you have no idea what race we are.
 
Russ77 said:
I agree with you regarding what the outcome would be BUT I think many people on here would agree that the term *shouldn't* be classed as racial abuse.

It's the whole PC gone mad where anything that remotely touches on something that may just be related to someone being of a different ethnicity is deemed racist.

About 20 years ago one of my cousins was called to the school about her 6 year old son being involved in a racist incident.

Apparently there was a Russian girl and he said "Your a cow 'cos your Mum comes from MosCOW"

My cousin said "Dan, do you know what "racist" is?", he shook his head, my cousin told the school how ridiculous this was and told them to stop wasting her time!

It was just name calling, OK he needed to be taught that you don't call people names but racial abuse....... I don't think so!!!
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No Russ, it's not PC gone mad, it's a vile insult accentuated by the use of a word that describes ethnicity. Very different to "remotely touching on something that may be related to someone being of a different ethnicity.

And I'm pretty sure John Terry knows what racism is so your example is hardly relevant.
 
I will play 1 match for the money they get, and I tell you what, they for sure will be calling me a white cxxx by the end of it too (they wont miss my skills or lack of either)
 
fabs said:
No Russ, it's not PC gone mad, it's a vile insult accentuated by the use of a word that describes ethnicity. Very different to "remotely touching on something that may be related to someone being of a different ethnicity.

And I'm pretty sure John Terry knows what racism is so your example is hardly relevant.
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You say potato........ ;)

Oh sorry... am I allowed to say that as it *could* be seen as an insult to Irish people...
 
I wonder what other black Chelsea players have said about it.. They have'nt said to much if anything..
 
tiler65 said:
Is this Racist.......????

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/go...with-racist-insult-about-former-employer.html

A new chapter in the life of Steve Williams and Tiger Woods
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I'm 50/50 on this one.....

On one hand it could have been a tongue in cheek comment and if there was a close relationship between the two it's be fine.

However from what I'm led to believe by the media there's a little friction between the pair of them so no doubt it was meant as an insult.

Whether it was *intended* as a racist insult only the guy who said it knows.

And that really is my point here, there are words that in different context mean different things, sometimes very different things.

What is really important is the intent they were said with ;)
 
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