the john terry racism stuff

KIPAX said:
It's not the word.. it's how its used.
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exactly,

and 'if' Terry said black $$$$ then it again comes down to how it was used,

ie as an insult.

You would never hear Terry (for example) call Crouch (for example) a white $$$$

If Terry did say it, then he used BOTH words as a racist insult.


it's all very well for fine white folk to bleat on about what is and what isn't racist - they don't have to 'live it'


rant over
 
fabs said:
Yes, it's racist. he (allegedly) combined the 2 words which associates them and that's what makes it racist, there's no ther reason for using the word black here. As for skinny/fat ****, well skiny/fat people aren't a race so they can't be racist but by combining the words, they are associating one with the other and excacerbating the insult.
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:agree:

On the other hand I'd rather take verbal abuse than get my leg broke in a tackle of course...sticks 'n' stones and all that.
 
sturisoma said:
exactly,

and 'if' Terry said black $$$$ then it again comes down to how it was used,

ie as an insult.

You would never hear Terry (for example) call Crouch (for example) a white $$$$

If Terry did say it, then he used BOTH words as a racist insult.


it's all very well for fine white folk to bleat on about what is and what isn't racist - they don't have to 'live it'


rant over
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It was definitely an insult but no more of a racist insult if Terry called Crouch a "lanky $$$$", the adjective is used to describe a physical attribute of the person you're trying to insult.

The general idea when you're trying to insult someone is to pick on something that makes them different from you. John Terry is white Ferdinand is black that's the difference between the two of them.

In a different scenario between them, let's say they are both mechanics and Ferdinand had put oil where the water should have gone in the engine, he'd have probably called him a "thick $$$$" but calling him thick in the incident in question wouldn't have been appropriate to the situation.
 
sturisoma said:
it's all very well for fine white folk to bleat on about what is and what isn't racist - they don't have to 'live it'


rant over
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you might well however hear him call crouch a c--t , or indeed a blind c--t and no one would make a fuss about it

also how do you know that everyone on here discussing the issue is in fact a member of 'fine white folk' - most user names don't give any idea of race :shrug: and the idea that white people cant suffer or indeed just debate racial predjudice is itself racist
 
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If (and it is a big if, innocent until proven otherwise) Terry used the 2 words together aimed at Ferdinand then it is a racist comment as he singles out Ferdinand's skin colour and used it in an derogatory manner likely to cause offence. If he had just called him the c-word then not racist.

Did he do it? I can't tell from what I've see (you can see him say the 2 words but it appears to be after Ferdinand confronts Terry) and the only reason there's more media about this than the Suarez incident is because it appeared on camera and lead to people speculating about what happened. The only person that truly knows is Terry himself.
 
BSM hit it on the head IMO.

It's racist if he was abused *because* of his skin colour, and he wasn't.

I agree with Kipax...talk about mountains out of molehills...say sorry old chap, shake hands, move on.

This news article sort of shows how bloody stupid and overstretched the racist problem has gone.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-15574333

Quick to arrest someone for using one particular word, yet every friday night we see much much more despicable behaviour.
Or just read Youtube comments and you'll see even worse comments.

The whole system is screwed up.
 
I've no idea who this bloke is that was insulted and from all the posts here I cant work out his race. Therefore colour doesn't define race, so I cant see how it can be a racist commrnt.
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Yes it does, similarly with something like a Breach of the Peace, where if another person considers themselves to have been placed in a state of "fear and alarm" by one's actions then a crime has been committed, whether you personally think it has or not.
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You quote Breach of the Peace, can you advise me what law I brake if something I do offends you? Apart from the obvious racist abuse.

Regards.
 
Section 5 Public Order Act

"(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he:
(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,
within the hearing or sight of a person likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby."
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posiview said:
You quote Breach of the Peace, can you advise me what law I brake if something I do offends you? Apart from the obvious racist abuse.

Regards.
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That would depend what you do and where you do it, the law is different up here, but in Scotland a Breach of the Peace is defined as

When one or more persons conduct themselves in a riotous, or disorderly manner, anywhere, which alarms, annoys or disturbs the lieges (Leiges = other people, including members of the public and Police officers).

The offence doesn't necessarily have to take place in a public place either, you can be charged with BoP in connection with a disturbance in a private house ...
 
It's all Double standards.

It seems that it's OK to throw around sheep shagging jokes about the Welsh, and we are supposed to find it funny. But use race as adjective and it's a heinous crime.
 
redddraggon said:
It's all Double standards.

It seems that it's OK to throw around sheep shagging jokes about the Welsh, and we are supposed to find it funny. But use race as adjective and it's a heinous crime.
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Not in the slightest. Jokes about Blodwin the beautiful Balwen can be deemed just as racist if someone takes offence and reports them as such.
 
If crap like this didn't make headlines it would die quickly IMO, but now Terry fans may feel he's being singled out as the bad guy and continue it, if his opponent doesn't like it why bring it to the fore and make it public domain encouraging others to do the same to him as it now seems to wind him up.
Sticks and stones etc.
 
^Joe said:
calling someone a black c**t is clearly racist.

As much as I dislike Terry, he isn't IMO, racist. So I don't think he would have said that.
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Absolutely, and frankly staggering that some people don't think so.
 
Most of this is media hype..
They should kiss and make up as there's another game on satuday to worry about.. and I'm sure more verbal abuse.
 
Jez2011 said:
Absolutely, and frankly staggering that some people don't think so.
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I definitely agree with this, it's so blatantly racist I'm staggered there is any debate here at all.
Anyone of you who need clarification should pop down to your local police station and refer to any black or asian employee in the same manner and report back here your findings ;)
 
thing is its not racist to refer to someone as a black , nor is it racist to call them a C word - put it together and what have you got - bippety boppety boo

if he'd called him a spade c--t that would have been racist because spade is a racial epiphet , but black isnt

plus he might have said blind anyway

imo the most racist thing about this is the ammount of media attention its getting because ferdinand is black - if terry had called crouch a useless fat c--t the chances are the media wouldnt have cared for more than one edition , if that
 
You can bippety boppety boo it any way you want, calling someone a black c**t is racist (if they are indeed black). If he called him a c**t well that's just offensive and I suppose him being black is just a matter of fact.
 
Davie said:
You can bippety boppety boo it any way you want, calling someone a black c**t is racist (if they are indeed black). If he called him a c**t well that's just offensive and I suppose him being black is just a matter of fact.
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Care to explain how by referring to him as black you see it as a racist comment? :shrug:
 
thing is I dont see how its different to calling some a tall/ short/ fat/ thin/ english/welsh/aussie / whatever c--t, its offensive yes , but picking on colour as a differentiating feature isnt inherently racist

it becomes racist if its linked to a racist remark like ... off to the jungle you black c--t , or arguably to a threat of violence like "i'm going to kick your head in you black c--t" if the threat is made because of his colour

none of which is relevant here because only two words are spoken

I know some excessively PC types will hold that its racist to use the term black because hes actually a sort of mid brown - but if thats the case why is it okay to use the term white , for people who are actually pale pink.
 
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Splog said:
Care to explain how by referring to him as black you see it as a racist comment? :shrug:
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Certainly, there is no need to call him a black anything, he is a human being. Whether he is a c**t or not is probably a matter of opinion but he IS black, there is no need for the emphasis. Same as 'you engish wa**er' or you scottish to**er' there is just no need to embellish the insult to include race or creed.

Are you saying it isn't racist?
 
Iff you call someone black, it's matter of fact because they are (although why you would need to state the bleedin' obvious is beyond me). Calling someone a c*** is offensive. Calling someone a black c*** is racist. It really is as simple as that.

Separating the words to try and deny it is pointless if the words are used in conjunction with eachother. The fact that they are used together means they are associated with eachother.

Why on earth would you, if you were calling someone a c***, bring their race into it if it wasn't a racial slur?
 
he is also dark haired , brown eyed etc (all attributes of an afrocaribean heritage just like his skin colour) so would it have been racist if he'd called him a brown eyed c--t ?

you are right that there was no need to mention it - and terry says he didnt - but mentioning something that differentiates two people isnt inherently racist, like if a thin white person calls a fat black person a fat c--t , that isnt racist , so what makes skin colour different

and terry says he used the phrase 'blind c--t' which is in no way racist, if he'd said that to a white player, or another black player had said it to ferdinand no one would have cared - the furore is soley because of the differing skin colours and that is racist on the part of the media

and if you think about it saying blind makes considerably more sense - presumably as a slur on his playing ability - wheras suddenly coming out with a remark like 'black'... makes no sense in the context
 
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Davie said:
Are you saying it isn't racist?
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Yes, I am.

fabs said:
Iff you call someone black, it's matter of fact because they are (although why you would need to state the bleedin' obvious is beyond me). Calling someone a c*** is offensive. Calling someone a black c*** is racist. It really is as simple as that.

Separating the words to try and deny it is pointless if the words are used in conjunction with eachother. The fact that they are used together means they are associated with eachother.

Why on earth would you, if you were calling someone a c***, bring their race into it if it wasn't a racial slur?
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But colour isn't race. He could be African, Carribean, Asian et al ...... I'vestill no idea what race he is :thinking: but I at least know what colour he is :shrug:
 
Racist intent in my opinion, if it wasn't he would have just called him a c**t, do you think he would call Wayne Rooney a white c**t
 
http://www.cps.gov.uk/publications/prosecution/rrpbcrbook.html

Racial group – this means any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin. This could include Gypsies and Travellers, refugees, or asylum seekers or others from less visible minorities. There has been a legal ruling that Jews and Sikhs are included in the definition of racial group.
 
and if he'd called rooney a weak c--t no one would have misread what his lips were saying because it would have been a non story

wheras the blind/black thing makes a far better story
 
So you are saying it isn't racist because there is no black race, so the proper racist insult would be maybe negro c**t...I'm actually amazed here..
 
big soft moose said:
and if he'd called rooney a weak c--t no one would have misread what his lips were saying because it would have been a non story

wheras the blind/black thing makes a far better story
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What he actually said is irrelevant when you're say that calling someone a black c*** isn't racist.

I can see that you appear to be ignoring my posts Pete but maybe if you were able to answer them, you might get a little more credibility rather than just repeating the same thing.
 
vv cephei said:
Racist intent in my opinion, if it wasn't he would have just called him a c**t, do you think he would call Wayne Rooney a white c**t
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Nope! In the heat of the moment the brain would pick up on the most defining feature, be that fat, ugly, bald or in some other cases .... 'thick' ;) All offensive but it's not about them being a **** because of their defining feature.
 
Nod said:
I've often been called a c*** and don't really get offended by it. my normal reply is "well, you are what you eat; p***k!"
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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Classic.

I think a small part of the general population goes out of the way to be offended if they possibly can, to jump on the liberal leftie bandwagon.
 
fabs said:
What he actually said is irrelevant when you're say that calling someone a black c*** isn't racist.

I can see that you appear to be ignoring my posts Pete but maybe if you were able to answer them, you might get a little more credibility rather than just repeating the same thing.
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The only reason you arent on my ignore list is because you're a moderator and i'm therefore unavble to put you on ignore, so dont delude yourself in thinking that i give a flying one about credibility in your eyes (especially as you seem to be doing the same thing you are accusing me of, ie repeating the same thing over and over)

however to answer the point, my position is that its about context - if you say 'f off back to the jungle you black c--t' then thats clearly racist, but if you said to black mate 'buy me a beer you black c--t' it might not be, because it would in the latter context be no different to saying fat, tall, skinny, rich or whatever

I have a number of freinds of different races and we tend to trade barbs and insults like no tommorow , because in an inverted way this demonstrates that we dont care about them.

In the case at hand we dont know what the context was, or even if terry used the offending words at all , and without that information the whole thing is a storm in a teacup whipped up by media hysteria
 
joescrivens said:
2 grand a week for 15 years is £1.5 mil over your lifetime

the minimum wage of 12 grand a year over 45 years (age 20 to 65) works out at £540,000. A more moderate average wage of £24,000 which is more than liveable gives you less than 1 mill in your lifetime.

I earn around 40K which if i had earned from 20 years old would get me 1.8 mill till i was 65

personally i'd take the 15 years of work and retire at aged 35 thanks and lose the extra £300,000!
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It is, but most footballers will not earn that same wage for 15 years, they will start on less, then increase - and many don't play for 15 years.
 
Steve I think I can see what you are trying to say but in deciding your insult to Anton you decide his defining feature is that he is black and you also decide he is ugly then you would come out with 'you ugly black c**t', this too is racist but with the added insult that there are better looking black guys out there.
Or maybe you think he's handsome, would you call him a handsome black c**t. I'm not sure this would be racist lol but you'd certainly get his attention.
 
big soft moose said:
The only reason you arent on my ignore list is because you're a moderator and i'm therefore unavble to put you on ignore, so dont delude yourself in thinking that i give a flying one about credibility in your eyes (especially as you seem to be doing the same thing you are accusing me of, ie repeating the same thing over and over)

however to answer the point, my position is that its about context - if you say 'f off back to the jungle you black c--t' then thats clearly racist, but if you said to black mate 'buy me a beer you black c--t' it might not be, because it would in the latter context be no different to saying fat, tall, skinny, rich or whatever

I have a number of freinds of different races and we tend to trade barbs and insults like no tommorow , because in an inverted way this demonstrates that we dont care about them.

In the case at hand we dont know what the context was, or even if terry used the offending words at all , and without that information the whole thing is a storm in a teacup whipped up by media hysteria
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Agree 100%.
 
pointless thread of the year, and as usual we get people being rude and arguing. How about passing this one by and doing something more exciting instead
 
Davie said:
Steve I think I can see what you are trying to say but in deciding your insult to Anton you decide his defining feature is that he is black and you also decide he is ugly then you would come out with 'you ugly black c**t', this too is racist but with the added insult that there are better looking black guys out there.
Or maybe you think he's handsome, would you call him a handsome black c**t. I'm not sure this would be racist lol but you'd certainly get his attention.
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:lol:

My point was that some people just react and that there really is no thought that goes into that reaction, it's the same thing when people lash out with their fists! if they paused for just a few seconds and considered what their reaction should be, then they probably wouldn't do it? although some would.

Anyway, I don't know anything about rugby.
 
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