The great TP election thread

[dinners]

It's not meant as an insult.

Many people (both sides of the border) vote and would admit to not knowing much about policies.

People choose how they vote for lots of reasons and I just feel that the SNP do a very good job of using 'patriotism' to appeal to a certain sector of the electorate.

 

[RedRobin]

It's not meant as an insult.

Many people (both sides of the border) vote and would admit to not knowing much about policies.

People choose how they vote for lots of reasons and I just feel that the SNP do a very good job of using 'patriotism' to appeal to a certain sector of the electorate.

....Exactly! There are so many reasons why individuals vote the way they do and it can be simply based on someone's own perceptions of what they imagine a political party stands for.

And even more often it can be based on a very self-centred view about who they think will leave them with more pounds in their pocket and there's nothing wrong with that.

It can also often be based on whether they like their local MP as a person or not and what he/she/it has done for them.

I don't take politics at all seriously and would love to see Boris as PM although I like David Cameron. Milithingyband just doesn't cut it as a national statesman.

 

[woof woof]

A serious question to the Scottish or people who live there, not a wind up or P take...

Did/do you really believe the things the SNP said during the independence campaign and the things they say now? Do you think that they have a good record in Scotland?

And just to make clear where I stand... I'd like to see the UK stay together and if I had a vote I'd vote for unity but if the Scottish want to go their own way I'll wish them well. What I don't want to see is the Scottish getting special treatment such as the famous formula or government contracts to bribe or placate... if a contract is merited for industrial or other sound reasons or even for social reasons then fine... but nothing beyond what would or should be done for any other region and not to bribe or placate. What I also don't want to see is any regional interest holding undue or disproportionate sway over the rest of the UK. To summarise, I'd like to see the Scottish get an equal fair and good deal as would and should any other region and nothing more.

 

[Steep]

My views on the first are pretty well known Alan, I'd have voted yes if the promise had been the moon or weekly beatings.

Do the SNP have a good record? absolutely. Things have not been easy and not all decisions have been popular but the fact that they won a majority in the 2011 election with a voting system designed to stop that happening says a lot. That they now have a membership over 105 thousand is also a good indicator of how the SNP is viewed in Scotland, many people who voted no are willing to vote for the SNP in WM knowing that they will have Scotland's interests much more in their minds than any of the other parties will.

 

[Llamaman]

I don't take politics at all seriously and would love to see Boris as PM.

I'd always wondered why he was so popular - is it really because he's a clown?
Be careful what you wish for - it's a well-orchestrated act to get the keys to No10. 'BoJo' is one of the most ambitious, scheming people in political circles - watch what happens if Cameron stumbles on 7th May.

 

[woof woof]

My views on the first are pretty well known Alan, I'd have voted yes if the promise had been the moon or weekly beatings.

Do the SNP have a good record? absolutely. Things have not been easy and not all decisions have been popular but the fact that they won a majority in the 2011 election with a voting system designed to stop that happening says a lot. That they now have a membership over 105 thousand is also a good indicator of how the SNP is viewed in Scotland, many people who voted no are willing to vote for the SNP in WM knowing that they will have Scotland's interests much more in their minds than any of the other parties will.

I haven't spent a lot of time in this section of the forum so I haven't read your views before.

Personally and not wishing to offend as that's not my way but I can be a bit... honest at times. Anyway, personally I think that anyone who'd vote SNP for reasons other that to gain independence needs to take the rose tinted specs off and take a long hard look at what these people say, reality, and what these people do as in my opinion the porkies they tell and the policies and views they have are not acceptable and would be laughable if this wasn't such a serious issue and in any case are deplorable and then there's their record which again personally I think is nothing short of disgraceful.

If I was Scottish and desperately wanted independence at almost any cost I suppose I could be tempted to vote for the SNP as sadly they seem to be the party most likely to deliver but once independence is gained I'd want them out PDQ and replacing with someone else. I don't know if there is a credible alternative to the SNP but when Scotland gets independence (and I think we're possibly on an irreversible course to that now baring some unforeseen event) I sincerely hope that the Scottish wake up, see these people for what they are and vomit them out. Maybe a credible alternative will appear in time once Scotland goes its own way. I hope so.

 

[Steep]

Alan, anybody who votes for the SNP knows full well what the long term aims are, independence is the prime aim, not a secret. I can't speak for the 'porkies' or unacceptable policies since you haven't given an example of any.

 

[woof woof]

Alan, anybody who votes for the SNP knows full well what the long term aims are, independence is the prime aim, not a secret. I can't speak for the 'porkies' or unacceptable policies since you haven't given an example of any.

We're all adults here and we're all seen the news reports and interviews and can type stuff into Google and make our own minds up.

My views are that they're unsuitable for office and as it's not my country I don't need to enter into any detailed debate on their (IMVHO) many and obvious to anyone with a brain shortcomings and faults. I suspect that your mind is made up and anything I put forward wouldn't matter anyway.

It's your country so you can vote for whoever you want but as a friendly neighbour I'd advise you to think about the alternatives once you've got the main thing, independence,

 

[chrism_scotland]

We're all adults here and we're all seen the news reports and interviews and can type stuff into Google and make our own minds up.

My views are that they're unsuitable for office and as it's not my country I don't need to enter into any detailed debate on their (IMVHO) many and obvious to anyone with a brain shortcomings and faults. I suspect that your mind is made up and anything I put forward wouldn't matter anyway.

It's your country so you can vote for whoever you want but as a friendly neighbour I'd advise you to think about the alternatives once you've got the main thing, independence,

What makes you think they're unsuitable for office? Some specific examples would be good.
I'd challange that all political parties are full of utter tosh when it comes to election time, personally I think that a lot of what we see in Scotland from any of the parties is b*****ks.

 

[dinners]

This is a bit of fun and the results are interesting.

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey/1/select-issues

1) Choose which policies are important to you from:

• Crime
• Democracy
• Economy
• Education
• Environment
• Europe
• Foreign Policy / Defence
• Health / NHS
• Immigration
• Welfare

2) View what each party offers (not knowing which party it is) for each of the policies you have chosen then select your chosen one for each

You then get results for:

You
Your Constituency
Scotland (in my case)
National

 

[Steep]

We're all adults here and we're all seen the news reports and interviews and can type stuff into Google and make our own minds up.

My views are that they're unsuitable for office and as it's not my country I don't need to enter into any detailed debate on their (IMVHO) many and obvious to anyone with a brain shortcomings and faults. I suspect that your mind is made up and anything I put forward wouldn't matter anyway.

It's your country so you can vote for whoever you want but as a friendly neighbour I'd advise you to think about the alternatives once you've got the main thing, independence,

Well of course you're entitled to your opinion but if you're basing it on news reports in the main stream media then you have at best only one side of the story, at worst a completely false idea foisted on you by people and organisations with an agenda of their own. Claiming that you don't need to support your opinion makes your 'advice' based on that opinion pretty worthless.

 

[tarric]

Alan (woof woof) yes most of us are adults here and we're all seen the news reports and interviews and can type stuff into Google and make our own minds up.


My views is that Westminster is full of corrupt self serving **** they are all unsuitable for office, but as it's not my country I don't need to enter into any detailed debate on their (IMVHO) many and obvious to anyone with a brain shortcomings and faults. I suspect that your mind is made up and anything I put forward wouldn't matter anyway.


It's your country so you can vote for whoever you want but as a friendly neighbour I'd advise you to think about the alternatives once we gain independence,

 

[dinners]

once we gain independence,

What's all this 'we' ?

Despite SNP contributing 99.9% of the effort to convince the people of Scotland - only a poultry 35% of Scots actually wanted Independence.

This is about a general election not a referendum.

 

[Blank_Canvas]

I'd advise you to think about the alternatives once we gain independence,

You had your 'once in a lifetime referendum' last year and lost. The removal of Trident being cited as one of the main factors and unsustainable oil resources with overinflated prices. Predicting the outcome of the referendum, I won a tidy sum - cheers! The thing is though you can't, keep on having referendums. If nothing else it proves that The SNP are liars. Both Salmond and Sturgeon said that Scotland would accept the result graciously and work with Parliament

 

[cambsno]

Alan (woof woof) yes most of us are adults here and we're all seen the news reports and interviews and can type stuff into Google and make our own minds up.


My views is that Westminster is full of corrupt self serving **** they are all unsuitable for office, but as it's not my country I don't need to enter into any detailed debate on their (IMVHO) many and obvious to anyone with a brain shortcomings and faults. I suspect that your mind is made up and anything I put forward wouldn't matter anyway.


It's your country so you can vote for whoever you want but as a friendly neighbour I'd advise you to think about the alternatives once we gain independence,

While at times our MPs do silly things, they are many times better than our counterparts across Europe, Sth America and Asia - massive difference in the morals of ours and others.

 

[cambsno]

You had your 'once in a lifetime referendum' last year and lost. The removal of Trident being cited as one of the main factors and unsustainable oil resources with overinflated prices. Predicting the outcome of the referendum, I won a tidy sum - cheers! The thing is though you can't, keep on having referendums. If nothing else it proves that The SNP are liars. Both Salmond and Sturgeon said that Scotland would accept the result graciously and work with Parliament

Too right - but it now seems to be a case of vote every 5 years until we get the result we want!

 

[Steep]

What's all this 'we' ?

Despite SNP contributing 99.9% of the effort to convince the people of Scotland - only a poultry 35% of Scots actually wanted Independence.

This is about a general election not a referendum.

Amazing how you can pick and choose statistics to make your case seem bigger and better than it really is, are you actually suggesting everyone who didn't or couldn't vote would have been a no?
However you play with percentages, only 193k real people needed to vote yes instead of no for the result to have been very different and who knows how many would have voted differently if WM had dealt honestly with us (from start to finish).

The only people who keep bringing up the referendum are those opposed to allowing Scots to have any say in Westminster, even if we democratically vote for it.

 

[dinners]

Amazing how you can pick and choose statistics to make your case seem bigger and better than it really is, are you actually suggesting everyone who didn't or couldn't vote would have been a no?

Well I could have said only 4 out of 32 councils voted for Independence.

Compared to the weight of the YES campaign and the strength of feeling shown by those driving for independence, the NO campaign and indeed those happy to remain in the Union seemed rather apathetic.

We'll never know but with that in mind I'd say the majority of those who didn't vote probably didn't want it.

 

[big soft moose]

Sorry missed that bit,the Tories only have 1 (one) seat North of the border. Labour have in the past held the majority but in very few cases have they needed them to win an election.

I think thats what he meant - the torries would be better off with the 49 seats in scotland not being represented at westminster, as it would be 48 seats less against them

 

[big soft moose]

Personally i'd like to see an English National Party in the same vien as SNP or Plaid Cymru looking for the interests of england first (trouble is any attempt to start one will swiftly go down the EDL/BNP route which is not what I want - you can be an english patriot without being a racist bigot)

 

[dinners]

Personally i'd like to see an English National Party in the same vien as SNP or Plaid Cymru looking for the interests of england first (trouble is any attempt to start one will swiftly go down the EDL/BNP route which is not what I want - you can be an english patriot without being a racist bigot)

Some would say that's the Tory party.

 

[big soft moose]

Some would say that's the Tory party.

not so you'd notice - they only have their own interests at heart not the countries (which is true of 99% of politicians to be fair)

 

[chrism_scotland]

You had your 'once in a lifetime referendum' last year and lost. The removal of Trident being cited as one of the main factors and unsustainable oil resources with overinflated prices. Predicting the outcome of the referendum, I won a tidy sum - cheers! The thing is though you can't, keep on having referendums. If nothing else it proves that The SNP are liars. Both Salmond and Sturgeon said that Scotland would accept the result graciously and work with Parliament

To be fair to Sturgeon she has said that a new independence referendum will only come if there is a material change to the political situation, such as an EU Referendum where Scotland majority votes to stay in yet are dragged out because England votes to leave.

Also to get another referendum the Scottish People would need to elect an SNP Majority in Holyrood (not all that easy as the electoral system was setup precisely to prevent majority governments), as even the London Parties have said Independence is a matter for the Scots and in future it would be in the hands of the Scottish people to elect or not elect an SNP Government who wishes to hold another referendum.

I'm sure if what was being bigged up by Clegg, Cameron and Gordon Brown in the days before the referendum to convince people to vote no i.e a fundamental change to the way the UK is governed, Devo-Max or a more "federal" solution was actually being delivered the support for the SNP in Scotland would not be what it is, but David Cameron created this situation by going out into Downing Street at 7AM on September 19th and tying any further powers to Scotland to the issue of "English Votes for English Laws" which was basically going back on the "vow" by the Westminster parties that further Scottish Powers would be coming regardless, as I've said before show me a political party in the UK that isn't lying....

The way it looks now though is we have the Conservatives, Lib Dems and UKIP spouting that the SNP are basically not welcome to be a big part of the Westminster system which is a slight not on SNP MP's but on the potential Scottish voters who may put them in such a position, it is not right that Scotland can only be part of Westminster if we do as we're told and vote for one of the main 3 "London" parties, if we are really to be a valued party of the UK political system we as a country should be free to vote for whoever we wish and be counted at Westminster, not just if we vote Labour, Tory or Lib Dem.

 

[Phil V]

I do appreciate most MP's of the modern age are somewhat created as the output of thinktanks rather than actual Human Beings. But FFS getting confused about 'which football team you support' how can anyone take this man seriously.

 

[big soft moose]

I do appreciate most MP's of the modern age are somewhat created as the output of thinktanks rather than actual Human Beings. But FFS getting confused about 'which football team you support' how can anyone take this man seriously.

I suspect he supports all teams equally so long as they and their supporters vote for him

 

[Phil V]

I suspect he supports all teams equally so long as they and their supporters vote for him

Not true - to ber a 'man of the people' the thinktanks say he needs to care passionately about football, so they picked him one 'Aston Villa', who he's talked about on many occasions in order to build his 'ordinary' profile. Then he turns up in South London and declares himself a West Ham fan (sounds similar), and has blamed the 'error' on brain fade.

Of course he's tired, he's working a lot harder trying to get back into power than he has had to do over the last five years. But the 'mistake' is clearly because the 'football fan' is a construct, which is the point.

 

[big soft moose]

Lets face MPs of all hues are easily confused - whether its about what they can claim on their expenses, whether its okay to shag interns, whether their party is racist, whether they asked their wife to take their penatly points , whather they are allowed to take cash for influence... or a whole range of other issues

 

[big soft moose]

Maybe he loves villa but cheats on them with west ham for dirty thrills - he wouldnt be the first MP to get confused about who he's supposed to be with

 

[tarric]

What's all this ‘we’


Despite SNP contributing 99.9% of the effort to convince the people of Scotland - only a poultry 35% of Scots actually wanted Independence.


This is about a general election not a referendum.

The 'we' are those of us who want an independent Scotland.



I think you will find that the result was 55.3% or 2,001,926 voted no and 44.7% or 1,617,989 voted yes of the electorate that voted, your figure is a percentage of the actual number allowed to vote but some 15.4% choose not too for whatever reason and as usual these are all assumed to be no voters, so using the same figures and diffrent assumptions(I'll take them all as yes voters) only 47% of Scots actually voted against independence.

You had your 'once in a lifetime referendum' last year and lost. The removal of Trident being cited as one of the main factors and unsustainable oil resources with overinflated prices. Predicting the outcome of the referendum, I won a tidy sum - cheers! The thing is though you can't, keep on having referendums. If nothing else it proves that The SNP are liars. Both Salmond and Sturgeon said that Scotland would accept the result graciously and work with Parliament

Yes we lost the vote and accept the outcome. But that does not mean that we have to stop trying after all the SNP are a party of independence I think we can all agree on that, if at the next Scottish elections the SNP decide to put it into their manifesto then the Scottish electorate can choose to vote for them or not that is democracy the people decide or at least I thought it was.

While at times our MPs do silly things, they are many times better than our counterparts across Europe, Sth America and Asia - massive difference in the morals of ours and others.

I personally don’t think that the things that some MPs get up to are silly I think at best they are dishonest and at worst criminal.

 

[dinners]

I think you will find that the result was 55.3% or 2,001,926 voted no and 44.7% or 1,617,989 voted yes of the electorate that voted, your figure is a percentage of the actual number allowed to vote but some 15.4% choose not too for whatever reason and as usual these are all assumed to be no voters, so using the same figures and diffrent assumptions(I'll take them all as yes voters) only 47% of Scots actually voted against independence.

I know what I meant

84.59% of the electorate voted of which 44.7% voted yes

 

[Llamaman]

Personally i'd like to see an English National Party in the same vien as SNP or Plaid Cymru

Isn't that the English Democrats?

 

[Phil V]

Isn't that the English Democrats?

Do you know what, I believed that The English Democrats have a right wing agenda that's nothing to do with a progressive modern way to run England as a separate entity within a cohesive Great Britain. I've just had a look and they're not the bogie man that their name suggests, but I think they might be wrong about the regions.

How about we start from scratch with separate houses for Scotland, Wales, the North, the South West and the South East. The '2 house' system would then be regional parliaments which have devolved power from an upper House in Westminster?

The current 3 tier system has no 'English' representation, and even if it moved the little that some Tories and the English Democrats are after, it'd still be dominated by the South East.

What's right for the South East isn't always in the interest of the South West let alone the rest of Britain. Lets face it, Yorkshire has a similar size population than Scotland and as much of a cultural heritage and diverse economy.

 

[chrism_scotland]

Do you know what, I believed that The English Democrats have a right wing agenda that's nothing to do with a progressive modern way to run England as a separate entity within a cohesive Great Britain. I've just had a look and they're not the bogie man that their name suggests, but I think they might be wrong about the regions.

How about we start from scratch with separate houses for Scotland, Wales, the North, the South West and the South East. The '2 house' system would then be regional parliaments which have devolved power from an upper House in Westminster?

The current 3 tier system has no 'English' representation, and even if it moved the little that some Tories and the English Democrats are after, it'd still be dominated by the South East.

What's right for the South East isn't always in the interest of the South West let alone the rest of Britain. Lets face it, Yorkshire has a similar size population than Scotland and as much of a cultural heritage and diverse economy.

I do think that if the UK is to remain then a more "federal" structure is needed with Devolved Parliaments at least for Scotland, NI, Wales and England with something above replacing the UK Parliament & House of Lords, perhaps even a UK senate?
It would give most powers to the National Parliaments with things like Currency, Defence and Foreign Affairs being reserved for the UK "Senate" it would give the nations equal power over their own affairs while preserving the UK as a whole.

 

[SFTPhotography]

Isn't that the English Democrats?

or UKIP. They mention England a lot but not Britain. To me we are one country (the UK) and should have one government where we send representatives to represent our contituencies. Indeed the needs of a Glasgow constituency are very different to that or Gordon. Its too generic to say, Scotland wants this, England that as there are differences within each, massive ones.

One central government and local councils are the best way when I think about it.

 

[cambsno]

or UKIP. They mention England a lot but not Britain. To me we are one country (the UK) and should have one government where we send representatives to represent our contituencies. Indeed the needs of a Glasgow constituency are very different to that or Gordon. Its too generic to say, Scotland wants this, England that as there are differences within each, massive ones.

One central government and local councils are the best way when I think about it.

You see, I really don't get the SNPs views at all. They say that they want to govern themselves and say that they do not want to be told what to do by a load of English people especially with a Sth East focus... I kind of get that. Yet they want to embrace the EU and be told what to do by them... well, I would suggest that an English MP in the Sth East is going to have a closer tie than a Greek or Spanish MEP?

In fact, how can any party offer more decision making to Wales/Scotland yet take more away from us and more to Europe?

 

[Llamaman]

Perhaps the SNP haven't been brainwashed by Murdoch's bull effluent and have realised that the EU is actually a good thing.

 

[SFTPhotography]

You see, I really don't get the SNPs views at all. They say that they want to govern themselves and say that they do not want to be told what to do by a load of English people especially with a Sth East focus... I kind of get that. Yet they want to embrace the EU and be told what to do by them... well, I would suggest that an English MP in the Sth East is going to have a closer tie than a Greek or Spanish MEP?

In fact, how can any party offer more decision making to Wales/Scotland yet take more away from us and more to Europe?

Neither do I. One day they didn't want EU membership, then they did or assumed they'd get in a Yes vote, but wouldn't use the EURO which is manditory for new states, but thought they could use the currency from the country they broke away from. Bizarre.

All this independence talk yet as you say its not, as the EU suits call the shots.

 

[big soft moose]

or UKIP. They mention England a lot but not Britain. .

Nah i said a party that wasnt filled with racist bigots and BNP types - that lets ukip out of the frame

 

[SFTPhotography]

Nah i said a party that wasnt filled with racist bigots and BNP types - that lets ukip out of the frame

UKIPs fired their racist members etc. Quite unlike the SNP who hasn't dealt with any sectarian issues. You'd really hate them.

The UKIP movement is about controlled immigration, not anti immigration. Its about health trade with Europe and rest of the world, not having unhealthy for us policies thrust upon us by some suit we never elected in Brussels. However, if thats racist and bigotted for you, then that is you but I would respectfully tell you that you are wrong.

 

[big soft moose]

UKIPs fired their racist members etc. .

You sure about that - certainly a few have been asked to step down from posts, but i'm not convinced they've been expelled from the party - and i'm not aware of for example the membership secretary in hampshire who thinks ukip should target bnp members even beeing censured for his remarks