The great TP election thread

KitsuneAndy said:
You mean with them saying they'd do away with Zero hour contracts?

Quite right too IMO, ridiculous that they even exist.
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No not that one. I don't mind zero hour contracts, it provides flexibility either way and if anyone doesn't like them than don't accept them. If the company cant get the staff they'll have to provide a package that does attracts the right candidates.


No, I was talking about the reversal of corporation tax rates and the focus on getting more tax revenue from those who already pay in most to the system. Their focus on that opposed to reducing the running costs will cost this country very dearly. Short sighted politics of envy with no focus on improving standards for all an reward for success and self responsibility.
 
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dejongj said:
No, I was talking about the reversal of corporation tax rates and the focus on getting more tax revenue from those who already pay in most to the system. Their focus on that opposed to reducing the running costs will cost this country very dearly. Short sighted politics of envy with no focus on improving standards for all an reward for success and self responsibility.
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Regardless of whether you agree with higher earners paying more tax or not. No one can honestly say the Conservative have improved anyone's living standards during the last 5 years. At least under the last Labour Govt, the number of people in poverty fell and the income of the very poorest increased.

The only thing to help low income families this govt have done is the predictable increase in minimum wage just before the election.

Personally, I have no issue with paying more tax than people on lower income. I'm still far better off than they are despite the tax bracket.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Regardless of whether you agree with higher earners paying more tax or not. No one can honestly say the Conservative have improved anyone's living standards during the last 5 years. At least under the last Labour Govt, the number of people in poverty fell and the income of the very poorest increased.

The only thing to help low income families this govt have done is the predictable increase in minimum wage just before the election.

Personally, I have no issue with paying more tax than people on lower income. I'm still far better off than they are despite the tax bracket.
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Don't agree with that at all. More people than ever before have been taken out of paying tax altogether. Not just the first year but every subsequent year as well. And that is just one example.

I'd rather be kind and focus on every one achieving more and not leave anyone behind and just subsidise them. It is not sustainable and not kind.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
I agree on the last point, but agency staff just seems more honest to me, you know you're on a temp contract. Perm contract with zero hours just seem to remove all of the employees rights. They can in effect, sack you at any time, just by reducing your hours to zero, but you're still technically employed.
It causes havoc with benefits as well, as some weeks you're entitled to help, and some you're not. So constantly having to apply / cancel / reapply / adjust benefits levels.
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I basically agree with you, I was just playing devils advocate, I'm sure its not a nice position to be in, all the uncertainty and hassle
that goes with it. I'm sure there must be a "more honest" method, that gives people some level of security.
And thinking about it, and my comment about agency's, it seems these firms are running their own in house agency,
and doing away with hiring agency staff, cutting down on the fees etc.
Its a pretty much a lose / lose for the agency's too, if you look at it that way.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
Regardless of whether you agree with higher earners paying more tax or not. No one can honestly say the Conservative have improved anyone's living standards during the last 5 years. At least under the last Labour Govt, the number of people in poverty fell and the income of the very poorest increased.

The only thing to help low income families this govt have done is the predictable increase in minimum wage just before the election.

Personally, I have no issue with paying more tax than people on lower income. I'm still far better off than they are despite the tax bracket.
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Difference is that the current government inherited a total mess. Look around the rest of Europe, no party could have done better in the economy, it is getting better but was never going to improv overnight.

The recession had a number of factors and was a worldwide problem. We were affected by the U.S. And the euro crises. Would you rather have the Spanish, Italian or even the Greek economy?

This is what annoys me on labour. They were partly responsible and would actually get more respect if they admitted the coalition plan is working.

Biggest issue is the tax on the Middle, unfair. Summed up by the unfair child benefit rules. I could earn 60k with wife at home and get no child benefit. Neighbours could both earn 50k, so 40k more and claim some 3k pa tax free!!!!

Zero hours contracts need to removed imo, just not fair.

Problem is all parties are intent on slagging off the others. Not really sure how labour suddenly plan to improve the low income families? All 4 main parties have some very good ideas.
 
cambsno said:
Problem is all parties are intent on slagging off the others
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Yep they certainly seem intent on telling the country what the "others" won't do, instead of tell us what they will do! :rolleyes:
cambsno said:
All 4 main parties have some very good ideas.
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A four-way coalition? now there is a real scary thought!
:runaway:
 
cambsno said:
Biggest issue is the tax on the Middle, unfair. Summed up by the unfair child benefit rules. I could earn 60k with wife at home and get no child benefit. Neighbours could both earn 50k, so 40k more and claim some 3k pa tax free!!!!
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That to me, is symptomatic of this government. Rather then create well thought out policies they've simply designed them to appeal to newspaper headlines. Child benefit as you've outlined is a case in point. I'd agree it needed changing, but not in the headline style way that its been done
 
Cobra said:
Yep they certainly seem intent on telling the country what the "others" won't do, instead of tell us what they will do! :rolleyes:

A four-way coalition? now there is a real scary thought!
:runaway:
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You forgot to mention that the Unionist parties in Northern Ireland may just hold the four way coalition by the nuts....according to the BBC ...
 
cambsno said:
Zero hours contracts need to removed imo, just not fair.
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There's nothing wrong with zero hours contracts if they're not abused. The problem is the abuse. Insisting on exclusivity is clearly abuse. Not planning staff rotas a reasonable amount of time in advance is abuse.

But if they're done properly, they can be beneficial to all parties. For example my main lens inspection technician is on a zero hours contract, though we don't call it that. In busy weeks in the summer he might do 300 inspections; in quiet weeks in the winter he might do 100. (And he has various other sidelines which he pursues more actively in the winter months.) I pay him for the work he does, and he schedules his time to fit in with the business requirements. I advise him of the projected volumes in both the short term and the long term, and he advises me of his availability in both the short term and the long term. The arrangements work very well for both of us and it would be unreasonable to legislate to say that we're not allowed to do this.
 
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StewartR said:
There's nothing wrong with zero hours contracts if they're not abused. The problem is the abuse. Insisting on exclusivity is clearly abuse. Not planning staff rotas a reasonable amount of time in advance is abuse.

But if they're done properly, they can be beneficial to all parties. For example my main lens inspection technician is on a zero hours contract, though we don't call it that. In busy weeks in the summer he might do 300 inspections; in quiet weeks in the winter he might do 100. (And he has various other sidelines which he pursues more actively in the winter months.) I pay him for the work he does, and he schedules his time to fit in with the business requirements. I advise him of the projected volumes in both the short term and the long term, and he advises me of his availability in both the short term and the long term. The arrangements work very well for both of us and it would be unreasonable to legislate to say that we're not allowed to do this.
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Good point. The news tends to focus on the worse side of it, maybe keep zero hours to companies under a certain size? As someone who has worked in a small business I can see the benefit but do the large companies really need them?
 
cambsno said:
Good point. The news tends to focus on the worse side of it, maybe keep zero hours to companies under a certain size? As someone who has worked in a small business I can see the benefit but do the large companies really need them?
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I honestly don't know.

I'm sure there are large companies who use zero hours contracts because they're just lazy (or worse). For example my niece works in a Wetherspoons bar, and I cannot find the life of me see how they can *reasonably* justify her zero hours contract. It's not like they can't predict their opening hours! I suspect it's a combination of the manager bring too lazy or too incompetent to rota his staff properly, plus the ability to withhold hours as a sort of unofficial (and arbitrary, and deniable) disciplinary tool. All of which is abuse of the system, in my view.

But having said that, I can't rule out the possibility that there are some types of jobs for which zero hours contracts are genuinely beneficial, regardless of the size of the employer.
 
StewartR said:
There's nothing wrong with zero hours contracts if they're not abused. The problem is the abuse. Insisting on exclusivity is clearly abuse. Not planning staff rotas a reasonable amount of time in advance is abuse.

But if they're done properly, they can be beneficial to all parties.
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I agree with this. The implication is therefore that if zero hours contracts are banned many will be withdrawn and not replaced with full time contracts.
 
I have worked a zero hours contact before as it suited me and my needs plus it works both ways......you can always say "no" without fear of losing your job.......
 
archangel said:
..... you can always say "no" without fear of losing your job.......
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You can, so long as your employer is reasonable. The problem with zero hours contracts is that some employers abuse them. For example of you don't accept the hours which are offered this week, you won't get any at all next week. Or if you've done something trivial which annoys your manager, your hours are reduced or withheld. Those are the sorts of practices that need to be stopped. The difficult bit is how to avoid throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
 
The proposed policy also only applies once you've been at the employer a set amount of time. This is lunacy, as it will all but guarantee that employers will terminate contracts the day before the time limit, forcing employees to find alternative employment.

I've already seen this in effect for myself - most employers are reticent to keep contract staff for more than 48 weeks at a time because of a perceived risk of the employee then demanding employment rights. In my previous role, it took intervention from both the UK and Global Heads of Department (of a large investment bank) to overrule HR and extend my contract.
 
Looking forward to the debate tonight.
 
dejongj said:
Looking forward to the debate tonight.
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I think it'll be pointless - 2 hours for 7 leaders? There'll only just be time for a string of sound bites .
 
Funny that I'm not allowed to vote yet have more interest in it.

There is so much at stake for this great country; Europe, Scotland, education, health, finances, employment. We aren't save at all. I'd urge everyone to forgo their prefixed perceptions and really listen to what they have to say. Vote wrong and short sighted, and it could cost us dearly.
 
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Don't get me wrong, I'm very interested in politics and always vote (despite living in a safe seat).
I just find the level of 'debate' on these TV farces to be infantile.
 
Llamaman said:
Don't get me wrong, I'm very interested in politics and always vote (despite living in a safe seat).
I just find the level of 'debate' on these TV farces to be infantile.
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Too right. It is cringeworthy seeing milliband slag off the coalitions economic policy seeing as we are doing better than the rest of europe! Admit it's working but that your policies could make it better!

Not watching as it will be full of lies and spin and little of fact.

Struggling to see how Scotland have so many MPs and that the snp hold so much sway in England.
 
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It's also a complete shambles as no-one's published a manifesto yet, so there's very little to question them on.
 
When did spitting image come back on tv?
 
Cameron and Clegg slagging each other off over austerity, they're two peas in a pod, three if you include Milliband.
 
Farage on aids was at absolute cracker. He's so funny without knowing it. Lol!
 
The aids comment was embarrassing to listen to, I agree. My point is that he is spouting and supporting the words you will hear in any pub any night of the week. Hard to take him serious as he hasn't offered any real suggestions on the important matters. A good and clever speaker yes, but shallow, yes.
 
How come the green party is being lead by an Australian......maybe I am being dim but I thought you had to be a british citizen to serve as a possible british leader... ;)
 
The blatant lying by that Scottish woman really annoyed me. Shame nobody picked her up on Scotland's privatisation of the nhs. Such a two faced cow.

Don't get why the greens,snp and the welsh party are there. The outspoken ani bankers attitude is just intellectually embarrassing.

The greens wanting to increase the foreign aid budget. Really?
 
dejongj said:
The blatant lying by that Scottish woman really annoyed me. Shame nobody picked her up on Scotland's privatisation of the nhs. Such a two faced cow.

Don't get why the greens,snp and the welsh party are there. The outspoken ani bankers attitude is just intellectually embarrassing.

The greens wanting to increase the foreign aid budget. Really?
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Read the greens manifesto, think it must have been published on April 1st. Never seen so much codswallop in my life. Zero or negative growth yet will somehow spend tens of billions more. A tax on meat to force us veggie... They are a joke of a party. At least with the others they have a couple of sensible policies!

Thought clegg, farage and even Cameron came out well from a bit the wife was watching.
 
The money that is spent/wasted on `green` issues is truly astonishing.
I've recorded it to watch later (sad I know) but was amazed when it said on the news that our deficit had actually doubled! WTF?
 
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OldCarlos said:
I've recorded it to watch later (sad I know) but was amazed when it said on the news that our deficit had actually doubled! WTF?
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That is hardly breaking news though. It's been well publicised that the deficit has been steadily increasing throughout the life of this parliament.
 
dejongj said:
The blatant lying by that Scottish woman really annoyed me. Shame nobody picked her up on Scotland's privatisation of the nhs. Such a two faced cow.

Don't get why the greens,snp and the welsh party are there. The outspoken ani bankers attitude is just intellectually embarrassing.

The greens wanting to increase the foreign aid budget. Really?
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She does remind me of the Crankies women. I suspect most people on here will be to young to remember the iterating husband and wife duo.
 
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